# CCP hates miners = confirmed **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [February 11, 2020, 3:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-hates-miners-confirmed/218941 "2020-02-11T15:04:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 8:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-hates-miners-confirmed/218941/482 "2020-03-02T08:19:03Z")
Two week old newbies usually aren’t in orcas or barges with valuable faction fittings. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 8:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-hates-miners-confirmed/218941/483 "2020-03-02T08:21:05Z")
> [@Saiso\_Katelo](#): > > When it’s a 2 week old newbie in high sec Oh yes absolutely. If I have to chose between an older player on a newbie to die then I go for the older player. Simply because the chance he drops something nice and the pod contains something expensive is bigger. Killing newbies isn’t worth it. ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 9:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-hates-miners-confirmed/218941/484 "2020-03-02T09:25:58Z")
> [@Theron\_Larkis](#): > > OP states there’s a 100 so I’m sure he can name like 10 of them. Since I started playing… Moving all mining barges to a 2 strip miner layout ( 4xships affected - 4 total ) Ore refining ( no such thing as %100 yield nerf - 5 total ) Altering CPU/PG ( 6 ships affected - 11 total changes) Mining Drone Specialization ( 8 ships affected - 19 total ) Off-Grid boosting Nerf ( 3 ships affected, two implants - 24 total ) Tier 2 Industrial Core shenanigans ( 25 total ) Round 1,2,3 and 4 rorqual nerfs + plus Excavator and Ice Excavator Drone collateral damage ( 37 total ) Ore Anonamally changes ( no more giant spudomain rock - 38 ) Ore Anonamally respawn changes, round 1, 2, and this year 3 ( total 41 ) Mining Foreman mindlink nerf ( was yield - total 42 ) Universal fuel block consumption ( caldari ice was king - total 43 ) Crystal degradation rate ( 8 ships - 51 total ) Moon ore skills ( 5 new skills - 56 total ) Drone ore vaporisation while tethered nerf ( 57 total ) Excavator speed nerfs ( 59 total ) Orca component manifest changes ( 60 total ) PANIC module nerf ( 61 total ) Capital Ship skillbook cost changes for rorqual ( 62 total ) Mobile depot nerf ( can’t hide excavators in depot anymore ) ( 63 total ) Vexor navy lost mining drone bonus - still a nerf ( 64 total ) Fuel block recipe changes - needs strontium now ( 65 total ) and the worst one Changing ore anonamalies to be publicly warpable instead of scan downs like data/relic sites. ( 66 ) Not quite 100, no doubt some have been missed. The latest rounds of ore nerfs are due to the market/supply issues in deference to any desire to help mining folk. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 9:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-hates-miners-confirmed/218941/485 "2020-03-02T09:47:29Z")
A large number of those in your list were not nerfs, and some were even buffs. For example the refining change was actually a buff to total yield, and the strip miner count change was part of a larger buff. ---
**Author:** ![PiPPeN\_Doos](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pippen_doos/32/183957_2.png) [@PiPPeN\_Doos](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/PiPPeN_Doos)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 9:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-hates-miners-confirmed/218941/486 "2020-03-02T09:48:23Z")
Thank you. I am trying to be constructive in the conversation. ---
**Author:** ![Ugren\_Okaski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ugren_okaski/32/181459_2.png) [@Ugren\_Okaski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ugren_Okaski)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 9:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-hates-miners-confirmed/218941/487 "2020-03-02T09:50:34Z")
Please tell me if I am wrong here, since I didn’t read about those changes. > [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > Moving all mining barges to a 2 strip miner layout ( 4xships affected - 4 total ) Wasn’t there an added bonus to compensate possible loss in productivity? And I am not sure it was a nerf for all affected ships. > [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > Ore refining ( no such thing as %100 yield nerf - 5 total ) Wasn’t there an increase in amount of minerals contained in the ore to compensate the changes? > [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > Altering CPU/PG ( 6 ships affected - 11 total changes) Was it reduced? > [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > Mining Drone Specialization ( 8 ships affected - 19 total ) Isn’t it actually a 10% bonus to mining drones (or whatever)? Or you are talking about removing that skill? And so on. Would be great if you provide links to some materials about those nerfs. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 9:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-hates-miners-confirmed/218941/488 "2020-03-02T09:53:43Z")
They also neglected things like the GREAT Rorquals buff, when talking about the subsequent Rorquals nerfs, which meant Rorquals still mine more than they used to. ---
**Author:** ![Theron\_Larkis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/theron_larkis/32/170573_2.png) [@Theron\_Larkis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Theron_Larkis)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 9:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-hates-miners-confirmed/218941/489 "2020-03-02T09:56:22Z")
- 2 strip miner layout: is a buff, now you get to target TWO asteroids so you can go afk for longer, also yeield got changed to make up for the changes. Also you “conveniently forget” that they got oreholds as well AND increased EHP so you get MORE cargo AND you can start using the lows for tank or MLU. A MASSIVE MASSIVE buff. If you think this is a nerf you have no clue - Refining change: everyone suffers from that therefore your income doesn’t change, also the yield changed to balance it out. Again, you have no clue - mining drone spec is a nerf now? Are you for real? - boosting change: NOT a mining nerf, it’s a nerf to everyone. mining foreman link change is tied to the boosting change, simply stating several things from the change change doesn’t count - moon ore skills are a nerf now? - vexor navy change is a nerf to mining? You’re’ trying to hilariously hard, and you’re failing - Changing ore anomalies to be publicly warpable instead of scan downs like data/relic sites. : how is that a nerf? You can now even be more braindead, don’t have to use probes anymore So yeah, you’re trying so very hard but it’s really just pathetic. It seems like you enjoy being a professional victim. ---
**Author:** ![Chiana\_Moro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chiana_moro/32/185467_2.png) [@Chiana\_Moro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chiana_Moro)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 9:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-hates-miners-confirmed/218941/490 "2020-03-02T09:57:11Z")
So you can mine in Rorquals now? It’s not just a boosting target? Cool. I have one on my other character, and the only times I’ve brought it out is with a defense fleet ratting in the same system. Coordination is key, cooperation is key. More so relative to the value of junk brought out into space. ---
**Author:** ![Theron\_Larkis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/theron_larkis/32/170573_2.png) [@Theron\_Larkis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Theron_Larkis)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 9:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-hates-miners-confirmed/218941/491 "2020-03-02T09:58:46Z")
> [@Chiana\_Moro](#): > > So you can mine in Rorquals now? According to Litsea Reticulata that’s a nerf, no doubt. ---
**Author:** ![Theron\_Larkis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/theron_larkis/32/170573_2.png) [@Theron\_Larkis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Theron_Larkis)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 10:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-hates-miners-confirmed/218941/492 "2020-03-02T10:03:00Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > Killing newbies isn’t worth it Exactly, there’s no sport in it and generally no profit. If said newbie pumped himself full of injectors and flies stuff that should be way out of his reach through normal gameplay then he elevated himself above “newbie” and becomes a target. ---
**Author:** ![Chiana\_Moro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chiana_moro/32/185467_2.png) [@Chiana\_Moro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chiana_Moro)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 10:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-hates-miners-confirmed/218941/493 "2020-03-02T10:15:40Z")
It doesn’t say what the whole controversy is about. The thing would have improved vastly by a summery of the changes. As things are now, it’s less useful to newcomers or returners. ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 11:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-hates-miners-confirmed/218941/494 "2020-03-02T11:32:47Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > A large number of those in your list were not nerfs, and some were even buffs. > For example the refining change was actually a buff to total yield, and the strip miner count change was part of a larger buff. That might be consuming two different aspects of the same patch, It was a nerf, since skills that resulted in a ‘perfect’ yield were no longer perfect and it forced people to refine in null to attain the maximum yield possible. > [@Ugren\_Okaski](#): > > Wasn’t there an added bonus to compensate possible loss in productivity? And I am not sure it was a nerf for all affected ships. Its a nerf every time you short cycle a rock. A coveter could yield 25% more than a procurer, since a short cycle rock is 1/3 lost yield, where a procurer it could be almost \>%90 of the yield. > [@Ugren\_Okaski](#): > > Wasn’t there an increase in amount of minerals contained in the ore to compensate the changes? Then why make the changes? Even if the yield was the same, it took up more space and therefore required more hauling. Nerf. > [@Ugren\_Okaski](#): > > Was it reduced? Before the patch I had a hulk fit that worked, after the patch it was %5 over on CPU, despite loosing a strip miner. Nerf. > [@Ugren\_Okaski](#): > > Isn’t it actually a 10% bonus to mining drones (or whatever)? You could use t2 mining drones with mining drones 5. Now you have to train another skill, which is a cost that didn’t exist before. To get maximum yield from drones ( which were irrelevant on ships with 25m^3 drone bays because of need to fight rats ) it meant more skilling. Nerf. > [@Ugren\_Okaski](#): > > And so on. Would be great if you provide links to some materials about those nerfs. [Archive.forums.eveonline.com](http://Archive.forums.eveonline.com) or whatever… > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > They also neglected things like the GREAT Rorquals buff, when talking about the subsequent Rorquals nerfs, which meant Rorquals still mine more than they used to. Rorquals spent %99 of the time in a POS. If they mined as much as a venture did today, it would be more. You think if rorqual pilots could still off grid boost you’d see them sitting around in anom mining? Their worth more as a booster to the other people in the fleet than their piddling drone yield which is nerfed to irrelevance. > [@Theron\_Larkis](#): > > 2 strip miner layout: is a buff, now you get to target TWO asteroids so you can go afk for longer, also yeield got changed to make up for the changes. No. See above, small rocks in high security space destroy yield due to short cycles. > [@Theron\_Larkis](#): > > got oreholds as well AND increased EHP so you get MORE cargo AND you can start using the lows for tank or MLU Dedicated ore holds isn’t exactly a buff, since you can’t fit even numbers of ice blocks in ships with that wierd 500m^3 of extra space. It would be more useful if the ore hold just auto-jetcanned into space each cycle when the cargo got full. > [@Theron\_Larkis](#): > > Refining change: everyone suffers from that therefore your income doesn’t change, also the yield changed to balance it out. Again, you have no clue Show me where in high security space you can refine to perfection? > [@Theron\_Larkis](#): > > boosting change: NOT a mining nerf, it’s a nerf to everyone. > mining foreman link change is tied to the boosting change, simply stating several things from the change change doesn’t count If it shat on the miners, its a mining nerf. The bonus removal reduced the EHP and align times of mining ships, therefore its a nerf. > [@Theron\_Larkis](#): > > moon ore skills are a nerf now? To be a perfect miner ( or refiner ) more skills are needed. Its the same crap that was pulled when a certain segment of the community whined about drone boats being OP and got drone interfacing nerfed, which I should have listed - 67 nerfs to miners… > [@Theron\_Larkis](#): > > vexor navy change is a nerf to mining? You’re’ trying to hilariously hard, and you’re failing Running mining missions in a vexer navy is still mining. Even discounting this one, there are like 60 others… > [@Theron\_Larkis](#): > > Changing ore anomalies to be publicly warpable instead of scan downs like data/relic sites. : how is that a nerf? It removed an element of safety. > [@Theron\_Larkis](#): > > You can now even be more braindead, don’t have to use probes anymore Bring the right tools for the job, or if that is too hard, whine on reddit and get a PvP “I win” button update. > [@Theron\_Larkis](#): > > So yeah, you’re trying so very hard but it’s really just pathetic. It seems like you enjoy being a professional victim. You’re entitled to your opinion. A list was asked for, a list was given. > [@Chiana\_Moro](#): > > So you can mine in Rorquals now? Mostly in Delve. Other places they are cheap jump freighters. I sold my Ore Development Rorqual ( before it was a skin ) to someone in cloud ring. > [@Theron\_Larkis](#): > > According to Litsea Reticulata that’s a nerf, no doubt. If its such a great buff, livestream your rorqual mining op and show everyone what a big tough guy you are and how much of a whiny crybaby I am. ---
**Author:** ![Rekindle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rekindle/32/382332_2.png) [@Rekindle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rekindle)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 11:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-hates-miners-confirmed/218941/495 "2020-03-02T11:34:32Z")
> [@Theron\_Larkis](#): > > Refining change: everyone suffers from that therefore your income doesn’t change, also the yield changed to balance it out. Again, you have no clue now theres a dose of empircal logic for the day. The above spoken like you’re a Goon sitting in the heart of Delve. ---
**Author:** ![Ugren\_Okaski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ugren_okaski/32/181459_2.png) [@Ugren\_Okaski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ugren_Okaski)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 11:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-hates-miners-confirmed/218941/496 "2020-03-02T11:36:14Z")
> [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > Then why make the changes? It was possible to reach 100% with suboptimal skills before, so it is just an opening for possibility to reprocess even better. > [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > You could use t2 mining drones with mining drones 5. Now you have to train another skill, which is a cost that didn’t exist before. And this skill probably is easy to learn to level 1 (if you have Mining Drones V already) and gives you even more yield. Addition of possibilities to increase your yield is not a nerf, it is a buff. ---
**Author:** ![Theron\_Larkis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/theron_larkis/32/170573_2.png) [@Theron\_Larkis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Theron_Larkis)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 11:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-hates-miners-confirmed/218941/497 "2020-03-02T11:37:31Z")
Last time I mined was in 2005, when I started playing. Last time I was in a null alliance was in 2009, because alliance and fleet sizes were already becoming ■■■■■■■■. I have never nor will ever be part of goons, nor have I ever been part of code. ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 11:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-hates-miners-confirmed/218941/498 "2020-03-02T11:44:36Z")
> [@Ugren\_Okaski](#): > > It was possible to reach 100% with suboptimal skills before, so it is just an opening for possibility to reprocess even better. Sub optimal skills in a suboptimal facility. Now you have to put up a citadel in a WH or Null to get the max refine. With the ore redistribution nerf, veldspar is better off getting comprised and refined in null, if refined in empire a bunch of the yield is lost. > [@Ugren\_Okaski](#): > > And this skill probably is easy to learn to level 1 (if you have Mining Drones V already) and gives you even more yield. Yes, %2 per level. > [@Ugren\_Okaski](#): > > Addition of possibilities to increase your yield is not a nerf, it is a buff. One would think so, but when capital guns got t2 variants, there were plenty of people who felt that it was just another skill they were forced to train, because everyone else will train it, in order to be as equal to other people as they were before the skill existed. ---
**Author:** ![FairyTail\_Omaristos](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fairytail_omaristos/32/145000_2.png) [@FairyTail\_Omaristos](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/FairyTail_Omaristos)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 2:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-hates-miners-confirmed/218941/499 "2020-03-02T14:02:57Z")
> [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > it forced people to refine in null to attain the maximum yield possible. “It is a nerf as I have to do it outside of HS and use different areas of the game” > [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > Its a nerf every time you short cycle a rock It’s a nerf as they now mine “too fast”? Are you for real? > [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > , it took up more space and therefore required more hauling. Nerf. “they nerfed it by making you mine more and then gave the ships even bigger - and specialised - ore holds” > [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > Now you have to train another skill, which… …takes less than an hour for level one and then gives you an additional yeild bonus for having it! > [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > [nline.com](http://Archive.forums.eveonline.com) or whatever… …may or may not have some info somewhere in there which may or may not back up my ludicrous claims but as I am just making this crap up I will not be lining anything specific as I do not know what I am talking about. > [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > if rorqual pilots could still off grid boost They would be even more hilariously OP than they are. And they do boost - check this out from 19th Jan [https://imgur.com/a/j9g0T3G](https://imgur.com/a/j9g0T3G) > [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > Show me where in high security space you can refine to perfection? Show me why you should be able to. > [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > If it shat on the miners, its a mining nerf. It didn’t and it isn’t. It was to EVERYONE therefore… everyone? You know, like, not just miners? > [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > Running mining missions in a vexer navy is… Absolutely hilarious to suggest. > [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > Bring the right tools for the job Yes. But whining and being a victim about things is not a tool. It just makes you a tool. > [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > Mostly in Delve. You mean “null” there ofc. As it is “in null” they are used. > [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > If its such a great buff, livestream your rorqual mining op and show everyone what a big tough guy you are and how much of a whiny crybaby I am. In the spirit of how you provided such a great link here: [https://www.youtube.com/](https://www.youtube.com/) Knock yourself out 😆 ---
**Author:** ![Equinoxx\_Dethahal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/equinoxx_dethahal/32/179145_2.png) [@Equinoxx\_Dethahal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Equinoxx_Dethahal)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 2:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-hates-miners-confirmed/218941/500 "2020-03-02T14:43:09Z")
First of all CCP needs to lay out what changes are and why to avoid the confusion behind changes. Second, while I know were in shortage phase, seeing a rorqual in null has become increasingly rare as the rocks are small enough for T1 barge mining and not much else, rock size matters. As a small scale miner idc, but I’ve stopped training towards one and decided to go another route, they just are not worth the risk anymore. This means less juicy pvp targets in null too before you pvpers cheer. Instead of catering more to a segment of game CCP seems to want to push miners out the game, which is a strange move for a sub based sandbox. Maybe more clarity is due to highlight what looks like need a into maybe an overall buff? Deal with bot alliances and stop screwing with everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 2:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-hates-miners-confirmed/218941/501 "2020-03-02T14:50:46Z")
> [@Equinoxx\_Dethahal](#): > > Personally I’d have just increased resource need of caps and supers to stem the problem of people mining, also why is it a problem ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/d/0/d0698cfea7af02146d097e5d88bab558daa9256b.jpeg) [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-hates-miners-confirmed/218941.md?page=23) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-hates-miners-confirmed/218941.md?page=25)