# CCP killed highsec PvP **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 23, 2018, 5:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-killed-highsec-pvp/65493 "2018-03-23T17:51:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 7:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-killed-highsec-pvp/65493/183 "2018-05-02T07:29:41Z")
> [@Andius\_Fe](#): > > I find it ever very amusing how one player is crying how PvP in high sec is dead, and you have another saying that PvP (or ganking to be specific) is out of control. šŸ˜… Also @Ralph_King-Griffin I think you guys in the wardec discord and threads on these topics need to consider that suicide gankers have a conflicting interest with you regarding HS wars. Basically the suicide gankers are trolling you and internally blocking you and sabotaging any real progress or concensus you can scratch together. At the very least they are famously toxic, and their tear-mining casts a shadow on your efforts by association. * * * If you and Lord were to start a thread exploring your doc, I promise to stay completely out of it. I think you will be shocked to see where you will get the most resistance and trolling fromā€¦ > [@Xebov](#): > > Ganking is not PvP Suicide ganking is arguably PvE. ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Pedro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_pedro/32/257285_2.png) [@Black\_Pedro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Pedro)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 7:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-killed-highsec-pvp/65493/184 "2018-05-02T07:33:47Z")
> [@Lily\_Inkura](#): > > That is the nub of the problem. Ganking involves killing me, with me having no intention (and, in an industrial with no drones, no way) of fighting back. Thatā€™s not PvP. Thatā€™s just dying. Of course it is PvP. You really have no intention of defending yourself? Of course you do - you have made countless decisions on fitting your ships, where and what to mine or haul, how much risk you take on before you even meet another player in space, and then you have a whole host of intel/situational awareness tools, evasion options and other tactical decisions you can make to escape. It isnā€™t ā€œbalancedā€ PvP in the honourable gladitorial arena sense, but it is absolutely PvP - two players with conflicting goals making moves and decisions looking for victory. In this case however you are the prey item, and they the hungry predator, and your win condition is escaping to safety with your tasty carrots or whatever, while theirā€™s is eating you. Eve offers up some of the most primal and purest forms of PvP in the gaming realm. I get if that isnā€™t your thing and you fancy your games with a more Bushido flavour, but I still canā€™t understand how people can look at the ruleset of Eve and declare it isnā€™t PvP unless they have some strange, personal definition of what player vs. player actually means. > [@Lily\_Inkura](#): > > Thereā€™s no risk to the ganker either. Only certainty - that they will die by Concord. Whatā€™s the point of that? To increase their ā€œPvPā€ tally on some third party ā€œkillā€ board? Pffft. Whoop-de-doo. Dying by Concord is not exactly a demonstration of dog-fighting skills, now is it. Of course it isnā€™t an exhibition of dog-fighting skills - itā€™s piracy. They just want to take your stuff. Or push you out of some space they claim. Or exhibit their dominance over you through space violence. No one claimed ganking was some intricate form of staged combat or gladitorial contest or honourable duel - it is just imaginary space violence that allows the core competitive game to take place. The game doesnā€™t hide this - gankers are specifically called outlaws and criminals in the game for engaging in these unfair fights and preying on targets of opportunity. The game is balanced such that suicide ganking is costly (the point of CONCORD which you seem to miss) or even impossible to use as tactic against the vast majority of ships in highsec. As such, it rarely happens, and when it does it usually is for profit against a target that failed to take steps to protect themselves or their goods from the pirates. This works perfectly fine as a game mechanic, and as a result most players, most of the time are left alone in highsec. Of all the things wrong highsec PvP and in Eve more generally, suicide ganking is one of the least broken. There are many strategies to make yourself a non-lucrative target and from the MER and other data almost every ship that undocks in highsec returns safely to a station. Yet still, the mechanic introduces some element of risk, and pirates can operate looking for the greedy, lazy and inept who make themselves a profitable target, and still allows a way, if you really, really want to pay the cost for you to even explode an unprofitable target for some greater goal in the sandbox. Seems like a workable system for high security space, in a full-time PvP sandbox game that features ā€˜pirateā€™ as one of the intended professions. ---
**Author:** ![Lily\_Inkura](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lily_inkura/32/174143_2.png) [@Lily\_Inkura](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lily_Inkura)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 7:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-killed-highsec-pvp/65493/185 "2018-05-02T07:44:26Z")
> [@Black\_Pedro](#): > > Of course it is PvP. Of course it is not. I am _not_ **_actively_** _fighting_ back. > [@Black\_Pedro](#): > > You really have no intention of defending yourself? Of course you do Nope. You canā€™t speak for me, or my intentions. Please stop doing so. What you quoted thereafter is a litany of evasion and avoidance tools. Not fighting tools. > [@Black\_Pedro](#): > > It isnā€™t ā€œbalancedā€ PvP in the honourable gladitorial arena sense, but it is absolutely PvP Ah yes, but you are the one previously talking about not comparing apples with oranges. You cannot equate PvP, as in duelling (or fleet vs fleet), with PvP as in ganking. And if you do, I donā€™t agree with you that they _are_ equivalent. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 7:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-killed-highsec-pvp/65493/186 "2018-05-02T07:51:20Z")
> [@Lily\_Inkura](#): > > How can it be player led when we get absolutely no say on who we either buy or sell from? Cough ā€œcontractsā€ cough ā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Pedro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_pedro/32/257285_2.png) [@Black\_Pedro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Pedro)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 7:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-killed-highsec-pvp/65493/187 "2018-05-02T07:59:15Z")
> [@Lily\_Inkura](#): > > Of course it is not. I am not actively fighting back. Yes you are - or at least you should be. You are playing a competitive PvP game where you are always open to interactions with the other players. If you ignore that fact, that is your prerogative, but it doesnā€™t change the fact it is true and you entered a virtual world with your PvP flag set to ā€˜onā€™ when you undocked. You can do hundreds of things that will influence whether or not you safely make to to your destination with a hold full of cargo or ore just like the predator can do hundreds of things that will affect their chance to successfully catch some prey. Players competing against other players to further their own interests. > [@Lily\_Inkura](#): > > What you quoted thereafter is a litany of evasion and avoidance tools. Not fighting tools. I told you as the prey item you want to escape. Evasion and avoidance tools are your best strategy, just like it is for the rabbit encountering a wolf. There are others of course - if you are a rabbit who thinks you may run into a wolf you can call your friend, the grizzly bear, for help, but evasion and avoidance are your most reliable and accessible tools to win the PvP encounter. I guess I could be wrong, and that your intentions are that you actually want to be exploded, but that doesnā€™t seem very plausible. > [@Lily\_Inkura](#): > > Ah yes, but you are the one previously talking about not comparing apples with oranges. You cannot equate PvP, as in duelling (or fleet vs fleet), with PvP as in ganking. And if you do, I donā€™t agree with you that they are equivalent. They arenā€™t the same, but they are both PvP. One is balanced and fair Space Samurai combat like say the AT, while one is opportunistic PvP and looking to exploit a weakness in an opponent. Eve is great as it allows both, and the whole gamut of PvP between the extremes. But to be fair, any impartial observer will tell you that most of the encounters in Eve run more towards the opportunistic and unbalanced end of things. This isnā€™t unique to highsec crime, but takes place everywhere in New Eden where players look to take fights where they have a significant advantage and something to gain, not ones that are ā€œfairā€. Thatā€™s just the nature of a open-world, full-loot PvP game like Eve. ---
**Author:** ![Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugh_crow-slave/32/441552_2.png) [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugh_Crow-Slave)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 8:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-killed-highsec-pvp/65493/188 "2018-05-02T08:02:08Z")
> [@DioKahn](#): > > CCP have also, by use of Tethering, eliminated PvP at new structures. This forces you into gate camping and back to the scan resolution battle with ships designed to escape. actually tethering is much healthier for PvP. it would be nice if stations had it. no more getting killed because you black screened to long, no more getting insta popped right after hitting warp. no more docking after biting off more than you can chew just because you managed to outlast your weapons timer it pretty much kills all the most toxic forms of station gaming. and when it comes to the structures you could always blow them up to force even more pvp ---
**Author:** ![Lily\_Inkura](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lily_inkura/32/174143_2.png) [@Lily\_Inkura](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lily_Inkura)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 8:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-killed-highsec-pvp/65493/189 "2018-05-02T08:08:52Z")
> [@Black\_Pedro](#): > > Yes you are - or at least you should be. No. Youā€™re doing it again - telling me what I ā€œshouldā€ be doing - stop it. > [@Black\_Pedro](#): > > You are playing a competitive ā€¦ game I agree. Just not with any definition which says competition either must include or equates to ā€œfightingā€. (Other than fighting for survival; I would agree with that.) > [@Black\_Pedro](#): > > They arenā€™t the same, but they are both PvP. Exactly. And the OP - in the sense of the person I was responding to - was suggesting they _were_. In that, and I quote: > [@Andius\_Fe](#): > > I find it ever very amusing how one player is crying how PvP in high sec is dead, and you have another saying that PvP (or ganking to be specific) is out of control. I was just making the point that they are different things. Yet both competitive as you say. End of argument. ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 9:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-killed-highsec-pvp/65493/190 "2018-05-02T09:36:08Z")
It really breaks my heart šŸ’” that tethering has eliminated station games. Now if we could only get station defenses to fire šŸ’„ on any MTUs within a 250km radiusā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 10:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-killed-highsec-pvp/65493/191 "2018-05-02T10:22:50Z")
> [@Arthur\_Aihaken](#): > > Now if we could only get station defenses to fire šŸ’„ on any MTUs within a 250km radius ## Suspect stations. Intriguing. The terrible truth, is that HS mass-wardeccing ā€œworksā€, even though few like it. Its a shitty ā€œcommon-denominatorā€ solution, but very hard to argue against in terms of changes, cos all changes will hurt somebody more than others. There are atleast 3 proposal docs, but all are different, and favor a different group. Concensus will never be reached, and lacking that, CCP will probably just leave it as is. ---
**Author:** ![Lily\_Inkura](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lily_inkura/32/174143_2.png) [@Lily\_Inkura](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lily_Inkura)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 10:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-killed-highsec-pvp/65493/192 "2018-05-02T10:54:56Z")
> [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](#): > > Cough ā€œcontractsā€ cough ā€¦ (Furballs? Nasty. I would stop licking the cat for a few days if I were you doll.) Contracts. Yes. Didnā€™t consider those. They would certainly work in one direction. You want some glare crust? Sure, Iā€™ll sell to you. You seem a nice guy; you do like cats after all. Not so easy to contract if a buyer cannot be pre-identiifed though. What would I do, advertise first on the open market and then refuse to sell? Not allowed to do that. But ā€¦ you still have a valid point. I did make a sweeping generalization, and you did find a hole in the argument. ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 11:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-killed-highsec-pvp/65493/193 "2018-05-02T11:01:03Z")
> [@Lily\_Inkura](#): > > Of course it is not. I am not actively fighting back. Doesnā€™t matter lol A player is shooting you (another player) Simplest definition of pvp lol ---
**Author:** ![March\_rabbit](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/march_rabbit/32/453160_2.png) [@March\_rabbit](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/March_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 1:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-killed-highsec-pvp/65493/195 "2018-05-02T13:45:57Z")
> [@DioKahn](#): > > CCP have also, by use of Tethering, eliminated PvP at new structures. Finally! I hope one day any structure will have tethering. Just yesterday i was almost blapped undocking from one of those stations where docking area is almost not exist. Undock, there is alpha hurricane outside waiting for me. And iā€™m in travel ceptor. Stop the ship but whatā€¦ ? Iā€™m already 1 km out of dock area. I really have no ideas what was an idea for suchā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 1:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-killed-highsec-pvp/65493/196 "2018-05-02T13:51:40Z")
Thereā€™s no risk of getting alphaā€™ed if you took the time to make instas šŸ˜‰ ---
**Author:** ![March\_rabbit](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/march_rabbit/32/453160_2.png) [@March\_rabbit](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/March_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 1:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-killed-highsec-pvp/65493/197 "2018-05-02T13:53:12Z")
Yeah, sure. When i first visit some place i already should have visited it and made dock/undock bookmarks. šŸ‘Œ ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 2:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-killed-highsec-pvp/65493/198 "2018-05-02T14:00:41Z")
The options are there lol Not my problem or the problem of the dudes camping stations if you didnā€™t bother making undocks lol ---
**Author:** ![March\_rabbit](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/march_rabbit/32/453160_2.png) [@March\_rabbit](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/March_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 2:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-killed-highsec-pvp/65493/199 "2018-05-02T14:02:55Z")
And this is quality of ā€œinformationā€ you ā€œlove to give to peopleā€ (like you wrote in other thread)ā€¦ TV level, not less! šŸ¤£ ---
**Author:** ![Chii\_leck\_Hudson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chii_leck_hudson/32/13988_2.png) [@Chii\_leck\_Hudson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chii_leck_Hudson)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 2:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-killed-highsec-pvp/65493/200 "2018-05-02T14:03:15Z")
Iā€™m not sure why anyone would be against making highsec more vibrant as far as player interactions are concerned. I see a lot of complaining in this thread but a lot I imagine are null sec dwellers or their alts. Surely they have no problem avoiding the low skill highsec pvpā€™ers. Clearly if you pvp in highsec you ā€œshould move to lowsec or null immediatelyā€ and learn to pvp cause you have no skill. Its funny people canā€™t avoid these low skill pvpers though ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 2:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-killed-highsec-pvp/65493/202 "2018-05-02T14:07:28Z")
Its sad, really. Nobody can agree on anything. ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 2:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-killed-highsec-pvp/65493/203 "2018-05-02T14:09:09Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Its sad, really. > > Nobody can agree on anything. I think everyone can agree that you have no clue about EVE. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 2:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-killed-highsec-pvp/65493/204 "2018-05-02T14:10:53Z")
> [@Ima\_Wreckyou](#): > > > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > > > Its sad, really. > > > > Nobody can agree on anything. > > I think everyone can agree that you have no clue about EVE. Oh man, Im genuinely sorry I have inadvertently butthurt you this badlyā€¦ [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-killed-highsec-pvp/65493.md?page=9) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-killed-highsec-pvp/65493.md?page=11)