# CCP MasterPlan in 2010, Ladies and Gentlemen. Outlaws of EVE **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [June 3, 2019, 10:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-masterplan-in-2010-ladies-and-gentlemen-outlaws-of-eve/164113 "2019-06-03T22:30:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Valerie\_Valate](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valerie_valate/32/386231_2.png) [@Valerie\_Valate](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valerie_Valate)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 12:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-masterplan-in-2010-ladies-and-gentlemen-outlaws-of-eve/164113/77 "2019-06-06T12:32:39Z")
Oh lol ---
**Author:** ![ISD\_Fractal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/isd_fractal/32/260812_2.png) [@ISD\_Fractal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ISD_Fractal)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 1:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-masterplan-in-2010-ladies-and-gentlemen-outlaws-of-eve/164113/78 "2019-06-06T13:41:05Z")
Spam removed. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 1:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-masterplan-in-2010-ladies-and-gentlemen-outlaws-of-eve/164113/79 "2019-06-06T13:51:39Z")
> [@Valerie\_Valate](#): > > LSG ? You know what the story is with this numbnut ? Arrived from black desert around the time of pearl abyss’ acquisition of ccp. Dumped a load of money on the game by buying Relvara character but also made many accounts with hundreds of characters that are in the LSG corp. Paid for gametime for all the accounts (I’m guessing a year) without doing the most basic research of the game. Found out that eve was a pvp game and that you can’t just throw isk into a character to make it invincible. Lost ships. Got butthurt at the game. Keeps trolling the forums and getting characters banned. ---
**Author:** ![Buoytender\_Bob](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/buoytender_bob/32/374377_2.png) [@Buoytender\_Bob](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Buoytender_Bob)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 2:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-masterplan-in-2010-ladies-and-gentlemen-outlaws-of-eve/164113/81 "2019-06-06T14:00:39Z")
Thanks for the background, I always wondered. ---
**Author:** ![M\_Cincinnatus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/m_cincinnatus/32/258279_2.png) [@M\_Cincinnatus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/M_Cincinnatus)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 8:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-masterplan-in-2010-ladies-and-gentlemen-outlaws-of-eve/164113/82 "2019-06-06T20:42:56Z")
> [@Solstice\_Projekt](#): > > > [@M\_Cincinnatus](#): > > > > Did you really deduce that? And how if I may ask? 😊 > > 1. His discord name. > 2. [https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/message/2054556/](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/message/2054556/) > > I don’t usually do homework about “officials”. I should have. > CCP Falcon founded Veto Corp. Holy ■■■■, I had no ■■■■■■■ idea! > > @CCP_Falcon Can I call you CCP Verone from now on?? 😃 +1 Wasn’t sure if it was a joke or not, as I had taken a long break during that time, but cool history. 🤓🕶 Thanks for sharing! ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 8:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-masterplan-in-2010-ladies-and-gentlemen-outlaws-of-eve/164113/83 "2019-06-06T20:48:17Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > - Pvp requires players. 70% of which are in hisec. The vast majority of space holds a tiny amount of players. > - Rewards need risk as balance, which hisec is lacking. Rewards gained in hisec affect the rewards gained from all other areas. Making it a ‘safe zone’ fundamentally undermines the player driven market. > - Engagement needs interactions, especially amongst new players. Hisec discourages interactions and more and more encourages isolation. > - Null was changed after player activity drop. Hi-sec pvp was fundamentally changed shortly before player drops. > - Hi-sec pvp has been repeatedly nerfed with the push of ‘it will increase player retention’, but has never increased player retention by any measurable amount. In fact it seems to have the opposite effect. > - We know that there is a correlation between players that get shot at and players that are sticking around longer. Well there, you’ve moved on from “I pwned you in forums hur hur!” to making actual points. Still only opinions unbacked by any facts or data, but it’s progress, of a sort. - “ **PvP requires players.** ” There are players in every sector. There are _lots_ of players (and bots) in FW, in low sec, in WH space, in Null. There are _more_ players in high sec, though probably not 70% any more. After all, the standard advice in any channel for almost two years now has been ‘move to Null, join a renter corp, farm ISK til your fingers fall off’. What you actually mean, since your killboard shows you are a high sec ‘PvP wannabe’, is that the _easy targets_ who are not _fitted for PvP and able to fight back_ are mostly in high sec. Obviously, as a PvP wannabe, you want to be able to select an easy target that probably won’t fight back much, kill it, and avoid being a target yourself. Thus, you are limited to high sec, where you can play the way you want, safely, without fear of being targeted by people with more guns than you. - " **•Rewards need risk as balance, which hisec is lacking. Rewards gained in hisec affect the rewards gained from all other areas. Making it a ‘safe zone’ fundamentally undermines the player driven market.** Actually, rewards gained in high sec have no link to that in other sectors. High sec has the lowest rewards anywhere. High sec has the highest count of PvP kills, the highest destroyed values, and the greatest population of pilots unprepared for/unskilled in PvP. Clearly, High sec has the **highest** risk for the **lowest** rewards of any sector, despite the restrictions on it. You really should start referring to published facts instead of just parroting the things you hear the other hi-sec PvP wannabes say. They’re wannabes too, after all. - “ **•Engagement needs interactions, especially amongst new players. Hisec discourages interactions and more and more encourages isolation.** ” Despite the discouragement, High sec still has the most population, the most trading, the most contracts, the most PvP kills, the most destroyed value. It’s hard to see how this ‘encourages isolation’. “Go to null sec, join a renter corp, farm your face off until your 3rd party warning software pings at you, then run away” sounds a lot more like encouraging isolation to me. However, I will concede your point here that high sec is badly designed currently (well, almost the whole game is really) and that CCP needs to do a lot more work here to promote player engagement and interaction as well as variety of play style that is available. In High sec for sure, but everywhere really. - “ **•Null was changed after player activity drop. Hi-sec pvp was fundamentally changed shortly before player drops.** ” Yet more unsupported opinion. No facts anywhere in your rambling. Please refer to dates, times, changes. That graph I posted before (the one you so hilariously misinterpreted) shows that after Crimewatch was released, EVE had it’s best year, number-wise, ever. The primary issue there was that CCP then did _nothing interesting_ to follow it up, and player numbers rapidly began to decline. Please note: I am not saying ‘safer high sec is better, or needed’. I have never said that. It is just a knee-jerk reaction you triggered on from something I wrote that you obviously didn’t even comprehend. I am just pointing out facts relating to EVE changes, population, and trends. But if you are going to contend that Hi Sec PvP changes led to player decline, and Null sec changes happened _after_ player decline, then get some facts. I’m not gonna do your research for you. - “ **•Hi-sec pvp has been repeatedly nerfed with the push of ‘it will increase player retention’, but has never increased player retention by any measurable amount. In fact it seems to have the opposite effect.** ” Again, facts, dates, reference specific nerfs please. I know you and all the other hi-sec PvP wannabes say this, but I have _never_ seen a statement from CCP that remotely translates to “we are nerfing high sec PvP to increase player retention”. The closest I’ve seen to that is “wardecs cause players to log out, we are changing wardecs”. - “ **•We know that there is a correlation between players that get shot at and players that are sticking around longer.** ” Well, you may think you know that, but apparently you don’t understand the difference between “correlation” and “causation”. First off, I’ve seen this point referred to many times, so I assume that somewhere a CCP dev said something like “stats show that (new?) players who engage in PvP tend to stick around longer”. Without context, the statement is relatively useless, though of course it is a darling of the PvP wannabes. I’ve no idea if they referred to new players or simply players, since I’ve never seen the original, but let’s assume new or new-ish. (I’ve never seen the original comment, if you have a link it would be appreciated!) Are they _new_ players, or are they alts created by existing players to knock off some quick PvP without affecting their main? Are they new players who entered the game actively _looking_ to do PvP, and so they engaged in it early? Which means they are basically self-selecting as a group more likely to stick with EVE the way it is currently designed. Are they new players who are being non-consensually targeted by gankers? After all, CCPs own statement that wardecs tend to make players log off and stay off certainly seems in conflict with ‘players who PvP stick around’, doesn’t it? The major players of Ultima Online back in the day are on clear record as saying “non consensual PvP was a bad idea and bad for the game”. So once again, you think you ‘know’ something, but without facts and supporting context, all you are doing is repeating the same tired mantra of high sec PvP wannabes everywhere… “we need people to log in to High Sec and be targets for us, and we need CCP to make the rules easier so we can do this more.” I mean, seriously, entitled much? You need other people to volunteer to be your easy targets for you to enjoy the game? ---
**Author:** ![kosiljka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kosiljka/32/140073_2.png) [@kosiljka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/kosiljka)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 9:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-masterplan-in-2010-ladies-and-gentlemen-outlaws-of-eve/164113/84 "2019-06-06T21:01:35Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > So once again, you think you ‘know’ something, but without facts and supporting context, all you are doing is repeating the same tired mantra of high sec PvP wannabes everywhere… “we need people to log in to High Sec and be targets for us, and we need CCP to make the rules easier so we can do this more.” > > I mean, seriously, entitled much? You need other people to volunteer to be your easy targets for you to enjoy the game? 👍 😌 ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 9:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-masterplan-in-2010-ladies-and-gentlemen-outlaws-of-eve/164113/85 "2019-06-06T21:15:35Z")
Yet another LSG alt. ---
**Author:** ![kosiljka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kosiljka/32/140073_2.png) [@kosiljka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/kosiljka)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 9:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-masterplan-in-2010-ladies-and-gentlemen-outlaws-of-eve/164113/86 "2019-06-06T21:53:06Z")
No s h i t Sherlock 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 10:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-masterplan-in-2010-ladies-and-gentlemen-outlaws-of-eve/164113/87 "2019-06-06T22:29:08Z")
Do you actually take any meds for your condition? ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 10:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-masterplan-in-2010-ladies-and-gentlemen-outlaws-of-eve/164113/88 "2019-06-06T22:38:46Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Without context, the statement is relatively useless The context has been discussed over and over and over, ad infinitum since 2014. There are several presentations and CCP analysis from data that have been posted dozens and dozens of times now and none of it is difficult to find. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 11:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-masterplan-in-2010-ladies-and-gentlemen-outlaws-of-eve/164113/89 "2019-06-06T23:11:55Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Still only opinions unbacked by any facts or data, I’m referring to actual events and studies by ccp. As oppose to your ‘facts’ which is what? This? > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > It’s weird how all the “PVP is everything” folks focus on a “too safe high sec” as the core of EVE’s problems. It’s like they aren’t capable of doing actual PvP in the 2/3 of EVE space which is always and everywhere fully PvP, and instead need a safe space filled with easy targets in order to engage in PvP. > > So hardcore, these folks! > > What this actually shows is all these “safe HighSec is the problem” types have no deeper understanding of the dynamics and drivers of game activity than CCP does. They all think “Well EVE sure was fun back in the day, and hey, made a lot of money too!” and somehow think that a _slightly_ more dangerous high sec caused all of that. > > Seriously, people, think a bit beyond your own need to have easy targets in a safe space where you aren’t a target yourself. The game needs more than just a shallow adjustment of the rules in a single security range. For someone wanting claims backed by evidence, i don’t think you’ve ever actually presented data or proof for anything. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Well, you may think you know that, but apparently you don’t understand the difference between “correlation” and “causation”. First off, I’ve seen this point referred to many times, so I assume that somewhere a CCP dev said something like “stats show that (new?) players who engage in PvP tend to stick around longer”. I literally said correlation. Context? [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/f/7/f77f9383ffb4feb5785ed6d533d14accac2b1a12.jpeg "EVE Fanfest 2015: Using Science to Help Newbros") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A92Ge2S8M1Y) ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 11:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-masterplan-in-2010-ladies-and-gentlemen-outlaws-of-eve/164113/90 "2019-06-06T23:12:08Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > There are several presentations and CCP analysis from data that have been posted dozens and dozens of times now and none of it is difficult to find. Well, as said, I have seen players, such as yourself, mention it in reference many times. But none of them ever link a source. When you bring up a point in discussion and use it as part of your argument, it is up to _you_ to provide the reference. I’m not going to do the homework for every weekend hi-sec PvP wannabe who makes claims, tells other people they are ignorant and tunnel-visioned, and then provides _absolutely no backup for his statements._ It’s the internet, nobody can stop you from saying anything you want in your opinions. But without any facts, references, or links to valid sources, nobody’s going to take you seriously either. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 11:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-masterplan-in-2010-ladies-and-gentlemen-outlaws-of-eve/164113/91 "2019-06-06T23:12:52Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > It’s the internet, nobody can stop you from saying anything you want in your opinions. But without any facts, references, or links to valid sources, nobody’s going to take you seriously either. The irony ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 11:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-masterplan-in-2010-ladies-and-gentlemen-outlaws-of-eve/164113/92 "2019-06-06T23:30:44Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > I literally said correlation. > > Context? Yes, you did. And that is why I pointed out that you don’t understand the difference between “correlation” (the thing you said), and “causation” (the thing you _implied_, but which does not necessarily follow from the correlation). And clearly, you still don’t get it, or even that mentioning one word does not imply you understand the other. Also, thank you very much for the link! I appreciate it! I do note, however, that this oft-quoted gem is 4 years out of date, stems from a single time period, refers to 1% of the players sampled during that time, and is qualified using phrases like ‘more likely’ and less likely’. So is 51% ‘more likely’ and 49% ‘less likely’? There are no numbers given. (I confess I did not watch the whole thing though, so perhaps they are given later. It’s just not an important issue to me nor my points.) It also completely misses the whole ‘self-selecting population’ thing, but whatever. I appreciate that you made the point and backed it up with a source. The fact is, you PvP in high sec, where it is safe, because you want to do your thing, yet be safe from the other people with guns and skills and the desire to use them on you. There is population in other sectors, there are many kills, there are solo hunters and gang hunters… but you only refer to the ‘high sec safety’ problem. It is a narrow, self-serving view that does not address the overarching design issues of the game. The facts are there, you just can’t see them. 2/3 of EVE systems are totally PvP. 30% _or more_ of EVE’s population is available to PvP against, freely, in all those systems. Dotlan, EVE’s own maps, and other 3rd party tools will _show you where those people are_. But you don’t want to fight them, because they have a much higher chance of fighting back and nuking your PvP-wannabe butt. You want the safe targets in high sec, you want to cruise around safely and free of disruption by people hunting you while you look for targets. (By ‘you’ in this case, I mean you and all the PvP wannabes like Solstice Projekt and others.) EVE has design flaws. EVE/CCP doesn’t really know how to adjust the game to meet both it’s vision and the requirements of the modern gaming population. It doesn’t have to suit everyone, but atm it’s drifting closer and closer to not suiting _any_one. Problems need to be addressed. Boring game play, a high sec that is both too safe and not safe enough, PvP accessibility and PvE options for the non-PvP crowd, player engagement, emergent gameplay… _all_ that needs to be addressed and provided for. It’s only the PvP wannabes who think the ‘main issue’ is ‘high sec is too safe’. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 11:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-masterplan-in-2010-ladies-and-gentlemen-outlaws-of-eve/164113/93 "2019-06-06T23:33:13Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Dotlan, EVE’s own maps, and other 3rd party tools will _show you where those people are_ . But you don’t want to fight them, because they have a much higher chance of fighting back and nuking your PvP-wannabe butt. Is there something fundamentally wrong with this? Is it wrong to want some easy kills in a video game, especially against targets that make themselves more vulnerable by not paying attention, not fitting their ships well, by autopiloting, and a whole host of other mistakes? ---
**Author:** ![Cythina\_Antollare](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cythina_antollare/32/138246_2.png) [@Cythina\_Antollare](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cythina_Antollare)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 11:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-masterplan-in-2010-ladies-and-gentlemen-outlaws-of-eve/164113/94 "2019-06-06T23:41:15Z")
When you make it “Safer”, you have changed the dynamic of the gameplay. And this shallow adjustment of rules you speak of is the center of the EVE universe, like a pond, throw a rock at it’s center and the ripples will be felt on the shores ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 11:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-masterplan-in-2010-ladies-and-gentlemen-outlaws-of-eve/164113/95 "2019-06-06T23:43:55Z")
> [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > Is there something fundamentally wrong with this? > > Is it wrong to want some easy kills in a video game, especially against targets that make themselves more vulnerable by not paying attention, not fitting their ships well, by autopiloting, and a whole host of other mistakes? No, actually, I don’t think there is. I think the ‘dark side’ of EVE is what fundamentally makes it interesting. I think that PvP is pretty much _required_ in EVE in order to drive the rest of the game. I mean, what the heck is the point of doing _any_thing in EVE if, for instance, PvP was virtually eliminated? All the farming, the botting, the ISK creation, the mega-alliances, it is all meaningless without the concept of ‘serving the PvP market’. Even though PvP makes up, like, 14-15% of actual game play, it is the driver, the engine, for pretty much all the ‘meaning’ (as much as a game has) in EVE. So the PvP-fans have got that much right, at least. The problem is, a game is an ecology, an ecosystem. PvP victims/valid target don’t just pop out of the ether. People need to be in those ships. Those people have to have a reason to **be** a target. They have to have a reason to think they are something more than a farmable resource for someone who’s been in the game longer than them, has more resources than them, or is just a flat out much better player than them. _Without sheep, the wolves starve. If you eat all the sheep, you starve. If you howl and scare all the sheep away, you starve. If you make the meadow so dangerous that no farmer brings his sheep there, you starve._ An ecology needs growth resources. It needs to encourage that growth. (Note for those triggering already… ‘encourage’ does not mean ‘make high sec safe’.) It needs to provide new resources a _reason_ to be there and an _economically valid proposition_ for engaging in activity that exposes them to risk, where they can rationally think ‘there might be wolves, but hey, I can get in there and farm my sheep and get out again before they even notice!’. If your gameplay experience depends on an endless supply of AFK, silly, inexperienced, vulnerable poorly fitted _people_ there to help you get your game jollies, then guess what. Your game starts to end as soon as that divide becomes apparent. That happened to EVE in roughly 2013-2014. > [@Cythina\_Antollare](#): > > When you make it “Safer”, you have changed the dynamic of the gameplay. And this shallow adjustment of rules you speak of is the center of the EVE universe, like a pond, throw a rock at it’s center and the ripples will be felt on the shores Sheesh, people, LEARN TO READ. Feel free to point out ‘the shallow adjustment of the rules’ that I advocated, or anywhere that I said to make high sec ‘safer’. “Debate by assuming the other person is talking about things they aren’t actually talking about” really isn’t overly productive. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 11:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-masterplan-in-2010-ladies-and-gentlemen-outlaws-of-eve/164113/96 "2019-06-06T23:45:43Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Those people have to have a reason to **be** a target. Undocking means consenting to PvP combat. I hope you realize this is a fundamental concept in EVE Online. The “reason” is simply that you are undocked. That is why you are a target. If you wish to avoid being a target, you’re free to remain docked. And despite all of your talk about “ecology” given that EVE has survived this long relatively fine, I think the “ecology” as it is right now is pretty solid. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2019, 12:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-masterplan-in-2010-ladies-and-gentlemen-outlaws-of-eve/164113/97 "2019-06-07T00:07:56Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > (the thing you _implied_ , but which does not necessarily follow from the correlation) ‘Does not necessarily’ is not the same as ‘doesn’t.’ You know, the whole global warming thing… I said there is a correlation. Are you arguing there isn’t one? No? Then stfu. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > I do note, however, that this oft-quoted gem is 4 years out of date, stems from a single time period, refers to 1% of the players sampled during that time, and is qualified using phrases like ‘more likely’ and less likely’. So is 51% ‘more likely’ and 49% ‘less likely’? There are no numbers given. (I confess I did not watch the whole thing though, so perhaps they are given later. It’s just not an important issue to me nor my points.) Yeah it’s old. But there has been nothing, zip, nadda, zilch from ccp or otherwise to suggest anything different. If you have better data, have at it. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > The facts are there, you just can’t see them. And suspiciously you can’t link em… > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > 2/3 of EVE systems are totally PvP. 30% _or more_ of EVE’s population is available to PvP against, freely, in all those systems. 100% of eve’s systems are totally pvp. And 100% of the population is available to pvp against. > **[High Sec Hauling/Mining Kills - TY CCP for No Protection - EVE General...](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/message/4964192)** > > EVE allows you to discover, explore and dominate an amazing science fiction universe while you fight, trade, form corporations and alliances with other players. Do you have a link that says otherwise? > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > You want the safe targets in high sec, you want to cruise around safely and free of disruption by people hunting you while you look for targets. (By ‘you’ in this case, I mean you and all the PvP wannabes like Solstice Projekt and others.) Don’t pretend to know us. > **[Luhya Saho | Character](https://zkillboard.com/character/799636298/)** > > Luhya Saho: 647 ships destroyed and 89 ships lost. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > EVE has design flaws. EVE/CCP doesn’t really know how to adjust the game to meet both it’s vision and the requirements of the modern gaming population. It doesn’t have to suit everyone, but atm it’s drifting closer and closer to not suiting _any_ one. I can’t disagree here. But turning away from your core customers to chase the mainstream cash isn’t a long term plan, or not a good one. It’s a last chance cash grab to get the most out of something before pulling the plug or handing over the wreck to someone else. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-masterplan-in-2010-ladies-and-gentlemen-outlaws-of-eve/164113.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-masterplan-in-2010-ladies-and-gentlemen-outlaws-of-eve/164113.md?page=5)