# CCP/Pearl Abyss **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [July 13, 2022, 12:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-pearl-abyss/369994 "2022-07-13T12:32:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![ResonanceOfWar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/resonanceofwar/32/408654_2.png) [@ResonanceOfWar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ResonanceOfWar)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2022, 8:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-pearl-abyss/369994/62 "2022-07-16T20:24:55Z")
Just saw the “Wine” part and thought it was a good idea thanks for that. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2022, 8:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-pearl-abyss/369994/63 "2022-07-16T20:36:58Z")
> [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > There was the game that the devs set out to make, and then hordes of “normies” financially incentivizing them to compromise on their artistic vision in order to cater to their desires. You’ve got it so ass-backwards it’s hilarious. You are really really hung up on this “it’s the players making CCP do bad things” jazz. Totally living in denial. Here’s how it _actually_ works: 1. CCP does something stupid, blows all the EVE money on a wasted project, faces a cash crunch. 2. CCP management says “our paychecks are on the line. What can we monetize?” 3. Someone says “What if we introduce a must-have supership, that gives a large advantage, **and** at the same time we introduce a new item for Plex that sucks SP out of one character and injects it into another. Now, players need to sub to skill up, sub to swap SP, buy Plex to get injectors, buy Plex to buy the new ships, etc. It will drive a whole new purchasing wave because **nobody can afford to sit on the sidelines while other players take advantage of this**.” 4. CCP introduces Rorquals and Injectors, buying cycle commences. **CCP** creates and drives the financial incentives _because they desperately need the money_. CCP introduces a P2W competitive advantage (Rorqs, injectors, Citadels, or what the heck, just cut out the middleman and **straight up sell SP** ). Serious bloc players **are forced to pay for it** or watch their entire alliance get left in the dust. Once they pay, everyone else either ponies up or gets left behind. Check [https://imperium.news/from-extraction-to-exasperation/](https://imperium.news/from-extraction-to-exasperation/) for a little more detail. If you need some background on **just how badly CCP manages things** you could also check here: [World of Darkness - the inside story on the death of a game | Games | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jun/05/world-of-darkness-the-inside-story-mmo-ccp-white-wolf) _Players_ don’t decide what goes in the game, and then poor li’l CCP is ‘forced’ to monetize those aspects to survive. Players don’t “want” changes into existence. CCP adds in changes that they **know full well** many players will hate but **other players will pay for**. And at CCP it’s the money that talks, “the game the devs want to make” be damned. There literally is no detectable integrity at all among CCP’s management clique. There may indeed be an EVE game that some devs are trying to make, but _those devs don’t make the decisions or drive the design process_. Hilmar & Co. do, and they’re consistently bad at it. You might also note that all the passionate ones, that _really_ want to make a difference for players in the game? They’ve all left. There’s a reason for that. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2022, 8:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-pearl-abyss/369994/64 "2022-07-16T20:45:42Z")
Your both right in a way. The dev’s used to care. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2022, 8:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-pearl-abyss/369994/65 "2022-07-16T20:50:48Z")
In my mind: THEN “here’s a new tool! We dont know why we made it but go find a use for it!” NOW “here is a filament. it goes to christmas town. mine ice. cash in at store. EARN a prize” ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2022, 9:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-pearl-abyss/369994/66 "2022-07-16T21:04:10Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > here’s a new tool Well, I remember when there were only large rigs. So the patches were pretty good for a while in my mind. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2022, 9:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-pearl-abyss/369994/67 "2022-07-16T21:06:34Z")
Maybe that’s the definition of a bitter old vet? Someone who survived the great extinction? ---
**Author:** ![ResonanceOfWar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/resonanceofwar/32/408654_2.png) [@ResonanceOfWar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ResonanceOfWar)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2022, 9:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-pearl-abyss/369994/68 "2022-07-16T21:15:54Z")
The last tool we got to play with was boosh desi’s and man are they fun wish they did some other fun stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_the_flame/32/490165_2.png) [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_the_Flame)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2022, 9:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-pearl-abyss/369994/69 "2022-07-16T21:25:33Z")
…or someone who shoots polarized neutron blasters at clouds (or the Jita monument). 🙃 ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2022, 9:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-pearl-abyss/369994/70 "2022-07-16T21:33:05Z")
That Guardian article is recognizable and embarrassing at the same time, sums it up nicely for what was to happen in the following years. ---
**Author:** ![Koinigas\_Wara\_Heleneto](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/koinigas_wara_heleneto/32/327404_2.png) [@Koinigas\_Wara\_Heleneto](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Koinigas_Wara_Heleneto)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2022, 9:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-pearl-abyss/369994/71 "2022-07-16T21:35:45Z")
Well the fact that they are losing 15million dollar per week running the servers is big reason. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2022, 9:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-pearl-abyss/369994/72 "2022-07-16T21:58:40Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > That Guardian article is recognizable and embarrassing at the same time, sums it up nicely for what was to happen in the following years. And the sad thing is, that Guardian article is the (comparatively) fairly nice, _whitewashed_ overview of how CCP operates. If you saw some of the stuff I have over the past 15 years you’d fall off your chair. ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2022, 12:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-pearl-abyss/369994/73 "2022-07-17T00:57:38Z")
Sometimes whinging is all it takes to spark a conversation. Sometimes whinging is needed to bring out the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2022, 12:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-pearl-abyss/369994/74 "2022-07-17T00:59:40Z")
This place is never done having a conversation about this and the three other topics they talk about ---
**Author:** ![Shipwreck\_Jones](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shipwreck_jones/32/274382_2.png) [@Shipwreck\_Jones](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shipwreck_Jones)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2022, 2:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-pearl-abyss/369994/75 "2022-07-17T02:27:11Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > You’ve got it so ass-backwards it’s hilarious. You are really really hung up on this “it’s the players making CCP do bad things” jazz. Totally living in denial. > > _Players_ don’t decide what goes in the game, and then poor li’l CCP is ‘forced’ to monetize those aspects to survive. Players don’t “want” changes into existence. CCP adds in changes that they **know full well** many players will hate but **other players will pay for**. Off the top of head, players have lobbied for/complained about and gotten: - Surgical strike resist nerf reverse → Partial Reverse - HIC Agility Fix - Capital Balance → HAW Changes - Capital Proliferation → Capital Build Requirements - Structure Bashing Being Unrewarding → Quantum Cores - Undefended Structure Bashes Being a Slog → Timer Changes - Bastion Mod Cycle Times Being to Long - Marauders Being OP → Ewar Nerf - WCS Nerf - Bumping → 3 Min Limit - No Insurance Payout for Ganks - Hyperdunking - Freighter HP Buff after Surgical Strike Short Range Ammo Buff - More filaments after the christmass filaments And I didn’t have to go through patch notes, and the amount of time I spent thinking about it was the amount of time I spent writing it. Obviously, there is much, much more -both big and small. CCP is responsive to the the player base. Naturally, they do not always give in to all player complaints all the time, and they can sometimes be slow to act, but they do most certainly do things that players have been asking for. And to say otherwise is ahistoric. **So, I have to ask, are your just not paying attention, suffering from a severe case of confirmation bias, or just so committed to pushing your narrative that you don’t let trifles such as truth get in your way?** And not for nothing, but I’m sure CCP’s other projects (and failures) has also played a role in financial decisions that they made with Eve. For example, their current desire to develop other games has apparently caused them to be unprofitable, which has apparently played a role in the sub price increase. You know, sometimes the reasons for something can be more complex than one thing. Anyway, it’s been fun. I’m going to go stand somewhere else now. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2022, 4:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-pearl-abyss/369994/76 "2022-07-17T04:25:49Z")
> [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > they do most certainly do things that players have been asking for There’s a pretty huge difference between “we broke the game and you told us we had to fix it, so we did - after 6 years of letting it stay broken while we sold you power creep” and “players drive the changes in the game”. > [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > the amount of time I spent thinking about it was the amount of time I spent writing it. Yes well that’s pretty obvious. Fixes to game balance issues, especially issues CCP _caused_ by their efforts to monetize power creep, isn’t exactly “player driven design”. But hey man, you live in a weird reality where _ **players force CCP to give up their dreams for a better game and just go for the fast monetization options** _. > [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > So, I have to ask, are your just not paying attention, suffering from a severe case of confirmation bias, or just so committed to pushing your narrative that you don’t let trifles such as truth get in your way? No, you simply got caught sticking your head so far up your behind trying to ignore CCP’s blatant mismanagement and “blame it on the players” that you decided you had to move the goalposts to “hey sometimes CCP listens to players”. Here’s a reminder in case you conveniently forgot: > [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > There was the game that the devs set out to make, and then hordes of “normies” financially incentivizing them to compromise on their artistic vision in order to cater to their desires. Huge, HUGE difference there. Players generally make playability requests, it’s CCP that drives the monetization cycle. Players loudly and strongly _protested_ most of the P2W and monetization moves CCP has made. And speaking of “trifles such as truth”, one of us constantly uses facts, data, references and links to historical perspective to support their point. And one of us keeps making up strange, completely unsupported, factually inaccurate conspiracy theories to support their contention that “it’s the players making CCP do bad things”. Guess which is which? > [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > And not for nothing, but I’m sure CCP’s other projects (and failures) has also played a role in financial decisions that they made with Eve. Already had that covered, thanks: > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > CCP does something stupid, blows all the EVE money on a wasted project, faces a cash crunch. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2022, 9:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-pearl-abyss/369994/77 "2022-07-17T09:21:24Z")
Ive been lobbying for years for mining lasers that do targeted damage to specific modules And exploding ice But have yet to receive mining lasers that do targeted damage to specific modules Or even fizzing ice ---
**Author:** ![ResonanceOfWar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/resonanceofwar/32/408654_2.png) [@ResonanceOfWar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ResonanceOfWar)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2022, 9:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-pearl-abyss/369994/78 "2022-07-17T09:32:41Z")
> [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > - Surgical strike resist nerf reverse → Partial Reverse > - HIC Agility Fix > - Capital Balance → HAW Changes > - Capital Proliferation → Capital Build Requirements > - Structure Bashing Being Unrewarding → Quantum Cores > - Undefended Structure Bashes Being a Slog → Timer Changes > - Bastion Mod Cycle Times Being to Long > - Marauders Being OP → Ewar Nerf > - WCS Nerf > - Bumping → 3 Min Limit > - No Insurance Payout for Ganks > - Hyperdunking > - Freighter HP Buff after Surgical Strike Short Range Ammo Buff > - More filaments after the christmass filaments All of these seem good to me btw, except for filaments at the end. And soon to follow: \*Small corps can’t have a structure without the big groups taking it out : Insert current cloaky structure Ark in Athanon. \*Space is empty and most people in the game opperate from JITA - Filament Rework & System buffs to promote more profit for Markets that are not Jita especially in low and null. \*Low sec being dead - FW update. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2022, 10:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-pearl-abyss/369994/79 "2022-07-17T10:03:53Z")
Cores are Satan’s turds ---
**Author:** ![Shipwreck\_Jones](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shipwreck_jones/32/274382_2.png) [@Shipwreck\_Jones](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shipwreck_Jones)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2022, 10:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-pearl-abyss/369994/80 "2022-07-17T10:34:46Z")
What makes you say that? ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2022, 12:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-pearl-abyss/369994/81 "2022-07-17T12:00:19Z")
Because they are, for the structure owner, only a negative. They disincentivise structures, and the reason CCP stated for their deployment was a flat lie. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-pearl-abyss/369994.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-pearl-abyss/369994.md?page=5)