# CCP plans to remove PvP from HS **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [December 27, 2020, 8:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-plans-to-remove-pvp-from-hs/287184 "2020-12-27T20:32:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 3:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-plans-to-remove-pvp-from-hs/287184/609 "2021-03-13T03:56:35Z")
I’m perfectly fine with people going through our interaction in this thread, and forming their own viewpoint with regard to that, lmao. ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 3:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-plans-to-remove-pvp-from-hs/287184/610 "2021-03-13T03:58:02Z")
forum alt = SUPER MEGA CARE BEAR fact ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 4:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-plans-to-remove-pvp-from-hs/287184/611 "2021-03-13T04:21:34Z")
> [@Kadia\_Kakki\_Sotken](#): > > You shouldn’t care if I make good ISK ratting in null then, but you do. You are really confusing yourself. I can still care about eve’s economy whilst not giving a damn about the size of the ships you fly. Did you read the dev blog? It’d really help if you read the dev blog… > [@Kadia\_Kakki\_Sotken](#): > > The point I made was not shocking, nor hard to believe if you spend two minutes thinking about it. It’s a natural consequence. PVP players like to PVP. If PVP players have more ISK available to them, then it’s highly likely that they are going to spend more ISK on PVP. There is absolutely nothing controversial about that statement. Stop trying to pretend there is. I understand your hypothesis. It’s just the fact that this is not what **actually happened**. We had very cheap ships since rorquals and moon fracking, and players did **not** pvp more. Since the vast majority of pvp is non-consensual, it doesn’t really matter how expensive ships are. Players behave the same. > [@Kadia\_Kakki\_Sotken](#): > > Define at what point there is an over abundance and how it’s detrimental in your own words I mean there’s literally a graph in the dev blog… ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 4:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-plans-to-remove-pvp-from-hs/287184/612 "2021-03-13T04:23:24Z")
take for example the Thukker’s i know for a fact that they are good AF in PVP, they are good in theorycraft they are good in low sec , they are good in the arena , they are good in tournaments they like to fight , they bling their frigates i killed one once and sold his abyss modules for 200 million if a Thukker with a actually killboard apear in the forums and say “Frigate PVP is …” i will listem but i will not listen one word of rufus and dufus crab masters parasites of eve forum alts is not enough being the richest ,most lazy and despicable types in the game… they have to come here spread lies and try to trow sand in other people fun for personal gains shameful behavior … ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 4:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-plans-to-remove-pvp-from-hs/287184/613 "2021-03-13T04:25:25Z")
Frigate PvP is pretty elite. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 4:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-plans-to-remove-pvp-from-hs/287184/614 "2021-03-13T04:30:00Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Since the vast majority of pvp is non-consensual, it doesn’t really matter how expensive ships are. Players behave the same. I always found it incredible just how _few_ people understand this concept. ---
**Author:** ![Kadia\_Kakki\_Sotken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kadia_kakki_sotken/32/261190_2.png) [@Kadia\_Kakki\_Sotken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kadia_Kakki_Sotken)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 4:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-plans-to-remove-pvp-from-hs/287184/615 "2021-03-13T04:50:15Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > You are really confusing yourself. > > I can still care about eve’s economy whilst not giving a damn about the size of the ships you fly. > > Did you read the dev blog? It’d really help if you read the dev blog… Yeah I did read it. Having all the resources in one place means alliance don’t have to look elsewhere for stuff. That’s independent of income. Also notice that they are very vague about what they are talking about. Paraphrasing: We believe there is a low income state, a healthy state, and a high income state, and we want to make sure the economy is in the healthy state". Well durr, nobody is arguing that. What’s high income mean though? Define it. What’s healthy? How do you know when the economy is healthy and when it isn’t? Define it. Like I said earlier, you can’t define it, that’s why you keep ignoring me when I ask you to define you view of a healthy and unhealthy economy. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > We had very cheap ships since rorquals and moon fracking, and players did **not** pvp more. So why did records for player battles keep getting broken. Why was I seeing bigger and bigger fleets? Can you prove players did not PVP more, since you are so adamant you are correct? > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > I mean there’s literally a graph in the dev blog… Yep. It says low income, healthy, and high income. No numbers, nothing defined. Useless. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny5k](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/johnny5k/32/261228_2.png) [@Johnny5k](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Johnny5k)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 6:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-plans-to-remove-pvp-from-hs/287184/616 "2021-03-13T06:22:54Z")
That’s funny bc Destiny who is the major aggressor in this dumpster fire hasn’t had a kill mail in 7 years. ---
**Author:** ![Mkikaden\_Tiragen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mkikaden_tiragen/32/243913_2.png) [@Mkikaden\_Tiragen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mkikaden_Tiragen)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 6:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-plans-to-remove-pvp-from-hs/287184/617 "2021-03-13T06:31:27Z")
Posting from a character with an established history and recognizable name is not posting with a forum alt. A forum alt is a character made or chosen to obfuscate the poster’s in-game credentials explicitly for the purpose of posting in the forums. Using your most well-known character, even if they are no longer your main, or whom you are using for other activity now than whatever drove your recognizable playstyle, does not equate to it being a forum alt. Nobody is obligated to post under their main, but the community generally expects players to stick to a single forum character name for ease of interaction. I am posting with a character that could be reasonably called a forum alt - it wasn’t made as one, but I have consciously picked a less-used character for posting on the forums to reduce potential intel gathering from observing my posting times. I also consciously picked a character that still shows my in-game affiliations, as the character is a member of the same corp as my main, so the obfuscation is again just about actionable intel, and not about masking who I am, my affiliations, or my possible knowledge base for activities. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 6:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-plans-to-remove-pvp-from-hs/287184/618 "2021-03-13T06:36:40Z")
> [@Johnny5k](#): > > That’s funny bc Destiny who is the major aggressor in this dumpster fire hasn’t had a kill mail in 7 years. Would a kill mail make everything I’ve said more valid? I can go out and gank a random barge if you _really_ want me to. ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 7:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-plans-to-remove-pvp-from-hs/287184/619 "2021-03-13T07:00:44Z")
That takes a greater level of skill than one would think. Restraint is the hardest hurdle to control. /[Lily Flapper | Character | zKillboard](https://zkillboard.com/character/2114882218/) my floozy freighter pilot dob Jan/2019 frequently undocks and hauls my junk. / > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > go out and gank a random barge if you _really_ want me to. Keep it clean me thinks! / > [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > Frigate PvP is pretty elite. The Judge can 2v1 in a Frigate aka Judge Sarn ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 9:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-plans-to-remove-pvp-from-hs/287184/620 "2021-03-13T09:22:00Z")
> [@Kadia\_Kakki\_Sotken](#): > > So why did records for player battles keep getting broken. Why was I seeing bigger and bigger fleets? Because CCP improve server performance. The record breaking you’re referring to is how much happens in a single fight, which is mostly limited by how many people you can cram into a system before the node crashes. Look, here is what you can to look at: Price index: in particular CPI (blue) and MPI (gold). ![9d_economy.indices (2)](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/6/c/3/6c35f90e1d31c9bf7dea10f46c33c3d7972a8c6f.png) Production vs destruction in isk: ![0_produced.vs.destroyed 2021(2)](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/3/e/5/3e5d055f68107a1c23af6d888d54c65d3b81b88a.png) Numbers of destroyed ships: ![3a8767113ce6142410de797ecb4e3e0557c93414_2_1380x528](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/2/3/b/23b16a5f035671c3bdecc66534e74a8d61e737c6.png) They don’t exactly have a high correlation with eachother. Instead there are moments where the opposite seems true where 2019 sees low ship costs but declining numbers of ships destroyed and 2020 sees rising ship costs and rising numbers of ships destroyed. Or the latest war occuring when ships are at their most expensive (and the ESS/DBS has nerfed null isk income). More likely is that it is simply the amount of people playing that influences how much players go out and pvp. [Eve-offline.net](http://Eve-offline.net) > [@Kadia\_Kakki\_Sotken](#): > > How do you know when the economy is healthy and when it isn’t? ![ActionsAndDirectives1_EN](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/5/d/0/5d07489c5d88ac6096138389c2b619daf2962c44.jpeg) Left hand boxes are a description of what CCP mean to achieve. ---
**Author:** ![Kadia\_Kakki\_Sotken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kadia_kakki_sotken/32/261190_2.png) [@Kadia\_Kakki\_Sotken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kadia_Kakki_Sotken)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 12:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-plans-to-remove-pvp-from-hs/287184/622 "2021-03-13T12:01:08Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Numbers of destroyed ships: > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > They don’t exactly have a high correlation with eachother. Well you can see the correlation in the 3rd graph. You ecan see the number of destroyed ships is trending down since 2018 and looks like it’s on course to continue. The big spike at the end is a fluctuation in the downward trend. In the 2nd graph, if less ships are being blown up, but their price has increased, you would not see a drop in ISK destruction. You can see this in the first graph where the consumer price index increased in 2018 and has only very recently dropped. You will see that recent spike in mineral price index affect the consumer prices once stock has been sold too. The more prices increase, the lower players’ purchasing power is. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Left hand boxes are a description of what CCP mean to achieve. I know. But the only reason they are trying to achieve that is because players like you keep complaining about it, as they said at the top of the post. However you can’t actually tell me why it’s a problem. The harder it is for me to earn ISK, the more time I have to spend earning it and the less time I can spend doing other stuff. I don’t play the game to PVE believe it or not. When I have to PVE all the time I quit the game. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 12:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-plans-to-remove-pvp-from-hs/287184/623 "2021-03-13T12:08:38Z")
> [@Kadia\_Kakki\_Sotken](#): > > But the only reason they are trying to achieve that is because players like you keep complaining about it I thought this thread was mostly you complaining HS was unfair? ---
**Author:** ![Avaelica\_Kuershin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/avaelica_kuershin/32/478139_2.png) [@Avaelica\_Kuershin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Avaelica_Kuershin)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 12:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-plans-to-remove-pvp-from-hs/287184/624 "2021-03-13T12:28:11Z")
It’s gone a long way from the OP’s worries about the vague statement about Empire’s patience with intrusive capsuleers meaning removal of non-consensual PVP. It always happens when talk of hi sec PVP comes up. 🤷‍♀️ ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 12:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-plans-to-remove-pvp-from-hs/287184/625 "2021-03-13T12:29:11Z")
So I can report him as off topic then? cool! ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 1:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-plans-to-remove-pvp-from-hs/287184/626 "2021-03-13T13:29:56Z")
> [@Kadia\_Kakki\_Sotken](#): > > You ecan see the number of destroyed ships is trending down since 2018 and looks like it’s on course to continue. But not the rest… If what you said was true, the graphs would correlate at least most of the time or all the time. MPI included since that is the main driver of tech1 ship cost. I understand where you were coming from. It’s just not the reality. > [@Kadia\_Kakki\_Sotken](#): > > However you can’t actually tell me why it’s a problem. Aside from it not being how eve is supposed to work where losses aren’t meaningful. It stagnated the game. Increased the rich/poor divide. Saturated the market. ---
**Author:** ![Kadia\_Kakki\_Sotken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kadia_kakki_sotken/32/261190_2.png) [@Kadia\_Kakki\_Sotken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kadia_Kakki_Sotken)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 1:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-plans-to-remove-pvp-from-hs/287184/627 "2021-03-13T13:42:44Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > But not the rest… Obviously. When the production was stable and high, unsurprisingly, so was the number of destroyed ships. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > If what you said was true, the graphs would correlate at least most of the time or all the time. MPI included since that is the main driver of tech1 ship cost. > > I understand where you were coming from. It’s just not the reality. The graphs have not contradicted what I’ve said. Correlation simply means non-independence between multiple variables. You cannot rule out correlation by looking at those graphs. I have also explained the clues in the graphs that suggest correlation. So you can sit there and tell me it’s not the reality, but the reality is you don’t understand what you are looking at on those graphs. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Aside from it not being how eve is supposed to work where losses aren’t meaningful. > > It stagnated the game. Increased the rich/poor divide. Losses have never been meaningless. Stagnation is a result of no changes to the game, it’s got nothing to do with the level of income. If CCP make no changes from this point forward, the game will “stagnate”. But that’s ignoring the fact that in the “stagnation phase” there was still conflict happening all over null so it wasn’t really stagnant after all. Stagnation is just another wishy washy statement with no real meaning behind it. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Saturated the market. Vague meaningless statement. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 1:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-plans-to-remove-pvp-from-hs/287184/628 "2021-03-13T13:49:49Z")
The sheer willful ignorance. The whole world is wrong. Only you know the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Kadia\_Kakki\_Sotken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kadia_kakki_sotken/32/261190_2.png) [@Kadia\_Kakki\_Sotken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kadia_Kakki_Sotken)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 1:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-plans-to-remove-pvp-from-hs/287184/629 "2021-03-13T13:53:24Z")
Well I’ve explained my argument and quantified it using the graphs you supplied. I’m waiting for you to tell me why my analysis is wrong, but you haven’t yet. All you do is tell me I am wrong, but never why. Why should I believe you? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-plans-to-remove-pvp-from-hs/287184.md?page=28) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-plans-to-remove-pvp-from-hs/287184.md?page=30)