# CCP Rattati on a stream talking about economy **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 2, 2021, 7:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-rattati-on-a-stream-talking-about-economy/298278 "2021-03-02T19:14:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 3:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-rattati-on-a-stream-talking-about-economy/298278/103 "2021-03-05T15:35:28Z")
> [@Flanidia](#): > > There absolutely is progress. To deny that is nothing more than typical bitter vet posturing. Oh, and where do you see the bitterness in what I wrote, or posturing ? Perhaps one would be served better by taking a step back and take a look at the EvE game from further away. A sandbox is very different from a typical MMORPG, or FPS. Perhaps if you made an effort to understand what people write, often from long experience, your opinion would have a more solid foundation. Yes, yes, there is progress, you can count your isk, your skillpoints, marvel at your next mastery level and whatever. You’d be missing the real progress entirely, and that is how far along the path and the goal you set for yourself you moved. Setting that goal is not something the game or the devs can do for you, let alone measure it. ---
**Author:** ![Flanidia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/flanidia/32/264223_2.png) [@Flanidia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Flanidia)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 3:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-rattati-on-a-stream-talking-about-economy/298278/104 "2021-03-05T15:36:57Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > You’d be missing the real progress entirely, and that is how far along the path and the goal you set for yourself you moved. Same mindset. It’s great that you have it. You need to recognize that the vast majority of the world does not. Your posturing by effectively saying everyone should have the mindset you do. Even though I imagine you know such a thing is not true. ---
**Author:** ![Cipher\_Jones](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cipher_jones/32/258701_2.png) [@Cipher\_Jones](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cipher_Jones)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 3:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-rattati-on-a-stream-talking-about-economy/298278/105 "2021-03-05T15:40:55Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > So what happens when people compare a Gordon Ramsay restaurant to McDonald’s? > > Just because the comparison is made doesn’t mean anything needs to be done about it. That’s the problem with this thread. All these people telling a financial analyst he doesn’t know how to do his job. Gordon Ramsey makes better food than McDonalds. He has less clout, less money, less fame. McDonalds is going to outlast any foodservice endeavor Mr Ramsey makes. Eve cant be fine dining and fast food at the same time, and fine dining isn’t sustainable. We got a bunch of burger flippers thinking they can cook better than a Chef. The Eve players saved Eve _once_. I was on the wrong side of that fight, I eventually shot the statue. But now every time CCP makes a change its not incursiongate or whatever they called it. Its rebalancing unsustainable actions. I hate to be the self aware seppo, but c’mon. This is just 2020 without corona virus. One side wants to thwart self destructive behavior and one wants to embrace it. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 3:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-rattati-on-a-stream-talking-about-economy/298278/106 "2021-03-05T15:41:41Z")
> [@Flanidia](#): > > Your posturing by effectively saying everyone should have the mindset you do. Another standard reply from someone only looking for echoes. Where did I say everyone should have the mindset I do ? I wasn’t referring to any mindset, I was referring to game design. You fail to see the concept behind the design. ---
**Author:** ![Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhalyd_lyehin/32/358574_2.png) [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhalyd_Lyehin)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 3:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-rattati-on-a-stream-talking-about-economy/298278/107 "2021-03-05T15:42:36Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > I don’t know about aura making ‘pretend’ stories about eve because it doesn’t really hit home with the players. It doesn’t need to be pretend stories. It could be actual stories from actual players. Looking at all the blogs and video material, there should be plenty of things that can be turned into short clips that aura should show these people. We have one already: [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/6/5/655cf7980ac7602011d63e63173440efa58f0498.jpeg "EVE Online: "I Was There"") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSxSyv4LC1c) ---
**Author:** ![Flanidia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/flanidia/32/264223_2.png) [@Flanidia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Flanidia)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 3:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-rattati-on-a-stream-talking-about-economy/298278/108 "2021-03-05T15:43:26Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > I wasn’t referring to any mindset, I was referring to game design. You fail to see the concept behind the design. You fail to see that the game design doesn’t match what most people are looking for in terms of a sense of progression. Which is why CCP’s efforts around NPE are doomed to fail. I love the fact that you accuse me of not listening. I understand your point. I think it’s incorrect. That’s not the same thing as not listening. Your response depends on the game only appealing to people with your mindset. That you cannot see that is the funny part. I’m done here. Have a great day. ---
**Author:** ![you\_are\_evil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/you_are_evil/32/246754_2.png) [@you\_are\_evil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/you_are_evil)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 3:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-rattati-on-a-stream-talking-about-economy/298278/109 "2021-03-05T15:47:09Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > SP grinding in future patch confirmed Finally something concrete to do instead of the sandbox! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 3:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-rattati-on-a-stream-talking-about-economy/298278/110 "2021-03-05T15:49:15Z")
Interesting exchange. People come here with “expectations” about seeing and measuring their personal progress ? Game design doesn’t match, so the game needs to change ? Pointing out to new players that they should forget what they were fed by other games isn’t good enough as an improvement ? You want more hamburgers ? Nah. ---
**Author:** ![Flanidia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/flanidia/32/264223_2.png) [@Flanidia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Flanidia)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 3:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-rattati-on-a-stream-talking-about-economy/298278/111 "2021-03-05T15:50:03Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > Game design doesn’t match, so the game needs to change ? If game wants new players as player expectations change, game needs to adapt. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 3:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-rattati-on-a-stream-talking-about-economy/298278/112 "2021-03-05T15:51:03Z")
You have plenty of other games to choose from. This one can and will attract the crowd that suits its design. And its unique, on top of all the rest. ---
**Author:** ![Flanidia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/flanidia/32/264223_2.png) [@Flanidia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Flanidia)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 3:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-rattati-on-a-stream-talking-about-economy/298278/113 "2021-03-05T15:51:33Z")
And as that crowd becomes smaller, so will the game. Buggy whip thinking by you. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 3:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-rattati-on-a-stream-talking-about-economy/298278/114 "2021-03-05T15:52:17Z")
Adjust and adapt, a hard truth in EvE. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 4:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-rattati-on-a-stream-talking-about-economy/298278/115 "2021-03-05T16:06:11Z")
> [@Flanidia](#): > > As given to them by something. In the absence of it, there’s no sense of progression, which matters to people even if it doesn’t matter to you. What sense of progression do you want that you cannot make for yourself? You’re basically saying you want the game to subscribe to **your** idea of progression and no one elses. It ‘matters’ to people because they are all naively thinking of **their** sense of progression and CCP will have their own sense of progression and **no one** will agree. Not unless you make a linear progression system and that would be a mistake for obvious reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 4:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-rattati-on-a-stream-talking-about-economy/298278/116 "2021-03-05T16:14:09Z")
> [@Flanidia](#): > > You fail to see that the game design doesn’t match what most people are looking for in terms of a sense of progression. Not every game needs to be homogeneous. EVE would have never lasted if it was. And recent attempts to make it more like other games have obviously not gone well. What the NPE and CCP in general do so badly in this regard is that they don’t manage expectations. If new players have the wrong impression, it’s not because CCP and EVE is different that’s the problem. It’s that players were allowed to believe they **weren’t** different. Edit- To further the mataphor: Gordon Ramsey restaurants aren’t sheepish about how they don’t offer McDonalds food. And no one gets a nasty surprise when the menu is different. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 6:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-rattati-on-a-stream-talking-about-economy/298278/117 "2021-03-05T18:46:32Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > That is quite low. How can even people function like this? They are called newer players. And sure, SRP can help and so can a good alliance. But not all players especially new ones have that kind of thing. They are often quite ignorant of many, many things in game. They learn and as they do their wealth tends to increase. My point is veterans, especially rich ones will likely be just fine during scarcity. New players or “poor players” won’t be. Just like IRL, those with money and resources handle adversity better than those who do not. So yeah, scarcity is a kick in the ass for veterans, but it is a kick in the nuts for all others. It is a shitty development strategy which is what I totally expect from CCP. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2021, 2:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-rattati-on-a-stream-talking-about-economy/298278/118 "2021-03-06T02:20:09Z")
> [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > I would say that showing newbies first hand experiences from other people who came before them could be a neat way to showcase what is possible Recent posts by some new players who have refused to listen to good advice on the forums seems to indicate that “you can lead a horse to water, but you cant make it drink” still rings true. ---
**Author:** ![Tursiops\_Truncatus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tursiops_truncatus/32/232426_2.png) [@Tursiops\_Truncatus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tursiops_Truncatus)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2021, 3:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-rattati-on-a-stream-talking-about-economy/298278/119 "2021-03-08T15:06:59Z")
> [@The\_Oz](#): > > While you most certainly have some good points, this is a very one-sided and extremely pessimistic opinion piece. I think you are recklessly and purposely misrepresenting and misinterpreting information. Moreover, you state your opinions as facts, which robs the post of any credibility it may have had. > > The only thing you will achieve with posts like this is that the devs will stop being so readily willing to join shows like this and talk about their work. Dude your show sucked and the only reason Rattati even went on your show is because he knew you would kiss his ass and not hold his feet to the fire or ask a hard questions. All you care about is how many hits your video gets so you can get paid. Rattati and his manifesto has a lot of cash paying customers pissed off and all you care about is how many hits a video can get. I just added you to the never watch again list. Don’t worry, Rattati will do your show again because he knows you’ll let his lies go unchecked. You help the injustice of a large number of cash paying EVE customers go unquestioned because all you care about is how many hits your video gets and YouTube money. ---
**Author:** ![Evei\_Shard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/evei_shard/32/245990_2.png) [@Evei\_Shard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Evei_Shard)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2021, 3:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-rattati-on-a-stream-talking-about-economy/298278/120 "2021-03-08T15:40:28Z")
Sounds to me that at 59:00 he’s hinting that they are eventually aiming to eliminate Omega. ---
**Author:** ![0Lona\_0ltor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/0lona_0ltor/32/336276_2.png) [@0Lona\_0ltor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/0Lona_0ltor)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2021, 4:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-rattati-on-a-stream-talking-about-economy/298278/121 "2021-03-08T16:09:14Z")
Looks forward to getting player feed back & responding to pings. As always back door discord shenanigans with pet players from CCP. ESI market needs a blackout with updates only happening at down time. ---
**Author:** ![Cipher\_Jones](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cipher_jones/32/258701_2.png) [@Cipher\_Jones](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cipher_Jones)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2021, 4:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-rattati-on-a-stream-talking-about-economy/298278/122 "2021-03-08T16:24:17Z")
> [@Tursiops\_Truncatus](#): > > Rattati and his manifesto has a lot of cash paying customers pissed off There are many players in this game, and people inherently oppose change. Therefore, any changes to the game will piss people off. > [@Tursiops\_Truncatus](#): > > You help the injustice of a large number of cash paying EVE customers go unquestioned Again, the large player base requires this mathematically. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-rattati-on-a-stream-talking-about-economy/298278.md?page=5) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-rattati-on-a-stream-talking-about-economy/298278.md?page=7)