# Ccp response needed. whats being done to lower plex prices **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [July 25, 2017, 6:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-response-needed-whats-being-done-to-lower-plex-prices/11792 "2017-07-25T18:43:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![yellow\_parasol](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yellow_parasol/32/10455_2.png) [@yellow\_parasol](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/yellow_parasol)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 9:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-response-needed-whats-being-done-to-lower-plex-prices/11792/562 "2017-09-18T09:04:57Z")
hell, totally of topic: sold all my bitcoins and now i’m scared as hell that i made the wrong choice. sure, i’d exit with a profit, but i actually (want to?) believe it’ll swing down aain by 100-200, so i can rebuy cheaper. off topic. sorry. having a rush. holy ■■■■. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 9:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-response-needed-whats-being-done-to-lower-plex-prices/11792/563 "2017-09-18T09:07:08Z")
Bitcoin? Pfft. PLEX is where the profit is at. ---
**Author:** ![Linus\_Gorp](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/linus_gorp/32/317333_2.png) [@Linus\_Gorp](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Linus_Gorp)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 9:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-response-needed-whats-being-done-to-lower-plex-prices/11792/564 "2017-09-18T09:21:28Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Anyone that claims PLEX market is not deliberately manipulated has clearly completely misunderstood the nature of EVE. It is in all cases completely rational to expect that in EVE, absolutely everything is manipulated by players. This is an axiom which defines EVE itself. Speaking as someone that used to manipulate the plex market for fun and profit, let me tell you that nobody would ever dare manipulating the plex market. That’s all just rumor-mongering 😏 ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 10:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-response-needed-whats-being-done-to-lower-plex-prices/11792/565 "2017-09-18T10:09:17Z")
Id love to see figures of how much PLEX actually exists in EVE currently, and where it is concentrated. My gut says its an absolutely mindbogglingly large figure that completely dwarfs the market and largely concentrated on a very small number of accounts. I wouldnt be surprised if even a full 50% of all extant PLEX was held on ~50 accounts.~ As I said sometime ago, CCP lost control of the PLEX market. Rationally, this would also, in part, explain CCPs direction of more services for PLEX, as well as fragmenting it, in an effort to reintroduce some of those masses of PLEX into the market to be sunk. CCP has a vested interest in as much PLEX being consumed as possible. Huge player PLEX stockpiles are ultimately bad for their business. ---
**Author:** ![CowQueen\_MMXII](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cowqueen_mmxii/32/446332_2.png) [@CowQueen\_MMXII](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CowQueen_MMXII)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 10:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-response-needed-whats-being-done-to-lower-plex-prices/11792/566 "2017-09-18T10:24:09Z")
> [@yellow\_parasol](#): > > …but i don’t see at all how that changes anything about what i said. Because you aren’t wrong in general. On an abstract level or when choosing the right variables, it is as you say. Just not when considering the current situtation or a gruadal transition of the monetization model. It’s also not helping that we don’t have many solid numbers and are just guessing or assuming most of them. ---
**Author:** ![CowQueen\_MMXII](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cowqueen_mmxii/32/446332_2.png) [@CowQueen\_MMXII](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CowQueen_MMXII)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 10:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-response-needed-whats-being-done-to-lower-plex-prices/11792/567 "2017-09-18T10:31:31Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > I wouldnt be surprised if even a full 50% of all extant PLEX was held on ~50 accounts.~ The distribution might be similar to the distribution of liquid isk: [https://i.redd.it/eyqbtnq1qmvx.png](https://i.redd.it/eyqbtnq1qmvx.png) > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Rationally, this would also, in part, explain CCPs direction of more services for PLEX, as well as fragmenting it, in an effort to reintroduce some of those masses of PLEX into the market to be sunk. For the same reason you could also hold on to your Plex, because price is only going up further. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 10:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-response-needed-whats-being-done-to-lower-plex-prices/11792/568 "2017-09-18T10:50:22Z")
1. Exactly. Pretty shocking stats arent they, even though anyone in their right minds already knew it. 2. Yes, but since PLEX always ALWAYS increases in price, (in huge incremental jumps) PLEX magnates can grow their PLEX stockpiles indefinitely, at constant enormous profit from just selling a few. The problem is that that PLEX is withheld from the market. They control the PLEX market, and as such, they defacto control EVE. A magnificent, and EVE worthy achievement, but one which may inadvertently be killing the game, as well as forcing CCP to diversify/fragment PLEX usage inorder to incentivize further PLEX introduction and sinking. ---
**Author:** ![JC\_Mieyli](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jc_mieyli/32/242789_2.png) [@JC\_Mieyli](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JC_Mieyli)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 10:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-response-needed-whats-being-done-to-lower-plex-prices/11792/569 "2017-09-18T10:52:49Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > The problem is that that PLEX is withheld from the market. why is this a problem ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 11:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-response-needed-whats-being-done-to-lower-plex-prices/11792/570 "2017-09-18T11:02:38Z")
> [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > > > The problem is that that PLEX is withheld from the market. > > why is this a problem Because its not being sunk. Withholding PLEX from the market drives up the demand by reducing supply, hence increasing price. There comes a tipping point where if you have held x PLEX that you acquired earlier for y time, that by selling z PLEX you can buy more PLEX with the profits than you paid for the ones you sold. Why this is bad, is its players controlling a key systemic resource upon which not only players depend, but EVE and CCP itself. Its like owning oxygen in an environment with no oxygen. The more oxygen you withdraw from the market, the more people die without it and the higher the price rises. ---
**Author:** ![JC\_Mieyli](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jc_mieyli/32/242789_2.png) [@JC\_Mieyli](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JC_Mieyli)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 11:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-response-needed-whats-being-done-to-lower-plex-prices/11792/571 "2017-09-18T11:22:10Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Withholding PLEX from the market drives up the demand by reducing supply, hence increasing price this would be true if plex was a scarce resource only available in the game its not though witholding plex from the market drives up demand in the game market sure but it also drives up demand in the real world market and demand in the real world market equals supply in the game market > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > There comes a tipping point where if you have held x PLEX that you acquired earlier for y time, that by selling z PLEX you can buy more PLEX with the profits than you paid for the ones you sold. sure but by selling those plex you are putting them back on the market and increasing supply which is bringing prices back down if hoarders have been buying the majority of plex supply its the hoarders themselves who are creating the largest demand for plex so when the hoarders want to sell they are no longer creating demand and they are supplying a saturated market instead this brings the price of plex down which means demand for plex on the rl market decreases which means less cash income for ccp so essentially hoarders increase rl demand for plex which means more income for ccp ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 11:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-response-needed-whats-being-done-to-lower-plex-prices/11792/572 "2017-09-18T11:28:13Z")
1. PLEX are scarce because they are bought up and stockpiled by magnates. Sunk PLEX are a separate figure. If there is a surge in PLEX introduction, the magnates are the first to skim the cheapest. 2. The more they stockpile, the higher rises the value of their stockpile, leading to the tipping point where they can sell a few PLEX bought previously, inorder to buy MORE PLEX than they had. 3. The more PLEX you have, and the longer you have it, the more PLEX you can buy i order to stockpile it, and increase its value even further. This is what I mean when I say that players have wrestled control of PLEX away from CCP. Players own vast stockpiles of PLEX that where never sunk, and exist in their stockpiles primarily to increase price by denying them from the market. Every PLEX you withhold from the market, raises the value of that PLEX. ---
**Author:** ![JC\_Mieyli](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jc_mieyli/32/242789_2.png) [@JC\_Mieyli](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JC_Mieyli)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 11:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-response-needed-whats-being-done-to-lower-plex-prices/11792/573 "2017-09-18T11:48:33Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > PLEX are scarce because they are bought up and stockpiled by magnates. Sunk PLEX are a separate figure theyre scarce in game because the supply is determined by people selling for rl cash they are not scarce irl though because ccp can supply as many plex to as many customers as they need ccp will never have a shortage of plex to sell > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > The more they stockpile, the higher rises the value of their stockpile, leading to the tipping point where they can sell a few PLEX bought previously, inorder to buy MORE PLEX than they had. yeah but this is largely due to isk inflation the isk used to buy plex is losing value therefore it takes more isk to buy plex the supply of plex in game is not limited there is always a supply of plex coming from rl sellers > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > The more PLEX you have, and the longer you have it, the more PLEX you can buy i order to stockpile it, and increase its value even further. yeah but this also creates greater rl demand which increases in game supply hoarders cant control the entire plex market when they dont control the plex supply i think the plex prices are more closely related to isk inflation rather than hoarding ---
**Author:** ![March\_rabbit](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/march_rabbit/32/453160_2.png) [@March\_rabbit](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/March_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 1:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-response-needed-whats-being-done-to-lower-plex-prices/11792/574 "2017-09-18T13:30:05Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > The more they stockpile, the higher rises the value of their stockpile, leading to the tipping point where they can sell a few PLEX bought previously, inorder to buy MORE PLEX than they had. Can you elaborate? If you sell some PLEX then you cannot just buy more of it (market taxes work well). Unless you artificially make PLEX decline after you sold some… But this is another story. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 2:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-response-needed-whats-being-done-to-lower-plex-prices/11792/575 "2017-09-18T14:05:35Z")
> [@yellow\_parasol](#): > > on a ship > in my hangar, as reserve for when the price goes up And how are your going to see that ship? [Let me help, not your monitor, not your computer, not your internet connection…we aren’t talking about _your_ costs here. Further, there is something that must be present aside from your monitor, computer and internet connection. That is, even with a monitor and computer and internet connection would not see your skin without this other “thing”.] > [@yellow\_parasol](#): > > all this started, because one guy thought it’s smart to engage in a useless discussion about my observation. the observation is that CCP apparently wants less people to sub via isk. that’s all there is to it. it’s undeniable, for everyone to see, and they aren’t going to turn that around. Ever. anyone who can’t afford the money-sub, can play as alpha. so all those who can’t afford the isk-sub either still can play as alpha. _Why not shut down the server, save that money and just simply sell skins for greater profit?_ ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 2:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-response-needed-whats-being-done-to-lower-plex-prices/11792/576 "2017-09-18T14:14:15Z")
> [@yellow\_parasol](#): > > realizing that this conversation started only, because some guy couldn’t wrap his head around my observation, makes me feel like this is a waste of time now. I got your observation…thing is, it is wrong. This is the part I am arguing is wrong, > [@yellow\_parasol](#): > > sinking plex into gametime means that this (these 🙄) sunk plex equals 30 days of running server costs. 30 days of service CCP provides for one (500 🙄 ) plex. > > compare that to a skin. the player buys it once. the running cost for skins is virtually zero (bugs aren’t the norm) and the cost for creation only applies once. every time someone buys that skin, it pushes towards break-even for this skin. I am arguing you have created an artificial distinction where none really exists. That is why I wrote, > [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > Because you are going to have those server costs no matter what. I am not going to buy a skin and put it on my car. I am going to put it on my ship, and I am going to want to see it in game. So sell a skin you must incur those server costs for the foreseeable future. Or yet another question: what do you think would happen to skin sales if CCP announced they were shutting everything down tomorrow? My guess would be: 1. The sale of new skins would drop pretty damn close to zero. 2. People who just bought skins and heard the news would be calling their credit card companies and cancelling payment. 3. All PLEX sales would see something similar. But, according to your artificial distinction this should actually enhance CCP’s profitability. ---
**Author:** ![yellow\_parasol](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yellow_parasol/32/10455_2.png) [@yellow\_parasol](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/yellow_parasol)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 2:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-response-needed-whats-being-done-to-lower-plex-prices/11792/577 "2017-09-18T14:26:51Z")
okay… i follow you. “artificial distinction” actually got me here. allow me a question. i know i’ve listed reasons above, but they don’t answer this. what’s their motivation for pushing the culture into a direction, where people don’t take it for granted to pay the sub with isk? that’s definitely what they are doing. is it, because otherwise the system, with alphas, would become unstable? is it just for the perceived value, aka plex is expensive, therefore everything obtained with plex feels more luxurious? what is it? ps: i’ll never get used to “500 plex”. ---
**Author:** ![Keno\_Skir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/keno_skir/32/460582_2.png) [@Keno\_Skir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Keno_Skir)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 2:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-response-needed-whats-being-done-to-lower-plex-prices/11792/578 "2017-09-18T14:31:36Z")
> [@Matthias\_Ancaladron](#): > > That was my intention. > > Call CCP out and get them to stop artificially manipulating the market. > > Low and behold prices droped once CCP started making sales and all these threads were gaining huge amounts of attention. But, and correct me if i’m wrong, you basically made a lot of noise about PLEX prices until such time as there was a PLEX sale and are now claiming that PLEX sale as a victory for all the noise you made about PLEX prices? PLEX sales have happened periodically throughout the history of PLEX rising from 200M to 3Billion isk and each time PLEX prices dropped a bit for a little while before continuing upward as normal. ---
**Author:** ![yellow\_parasol](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yellow_parasol/32/10455_2.png) [@yellow\_parasol](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/yellow_parasol)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 2:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-response-needed-whats-being-done-to-lower-plex-prices/11792/579 "2017-09-18T14:42:14Z")
i saw that as well. considering that he’s using alts to support his drivel (was caught him red handed), i see no reason not to wonder, if his mind isn’t bent even further than that. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 2:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-response-needed-whats-being-done-to-lower-plex-prices/11792/580 "2017-09-18T14:48:16Z")
> [@yellow\_parasol](#): > > what’s their motivation for pushing the culture into a direction, where people don’t take it for granted to pay the sub with isk? I don’t know that that is what they are doing, at least intentionally. Sure CCP could impose say a price cap, but then what happens is it is a wealth transfer from those buying PLEX for RL money to those buying the same PLEX for ISK. Great for the demand side in game, kinda shitty for the demand side OOG/supply side IG. This in turn will lead to a situation of excess demand–i.e. more demand in game than supply; a shortage. The creation of additional uses for PLEX certainly pushes the price up which reduces the instance of people paying for subs with PLEX bought for ISK, but it increases people buying PLEX for other purposes. Could CCP be “harming” itself with this? Sure. Because nobody sees all of the relevant information/knowledge here. Nobody sees the demand functions and supply functions and knows the various relationships. Not even CCP, because the demand functions are dependent on the subjective value of CCPs customers and I am not convinced that all of that information can be articulated fully. So CCP is kind of blundering around in the dark and doing the best it can…like the rest of us. > [@Keno\_Skir](#): > > But, and correct me if i’m wrong, you basically made a lot of noise about PLEX prices until such time as there was a PLEX sale and are now claiming that PLEX sale as a victory for all the noise you made about PLEX prices? > > PLEX sales have happened periodically throughout the history of PLEX rising from 200M to 3Billion isk and each time PLEX prices dropped a bit for a little while before continuing upward as normal. Not only that, but it is in CCP’s interest to see PLEX prices spike _then_ have a sale. If PLEX prices have spiked and I buy a pile for RL money I can sell them during the spike and make even more ISK, especially if I am one of the first movers. So, the whole premise of “Hey, look I saved the day with regards to PLEX with this thread!” is dubious. [Note: I am not saying CCP created the spike in prices to benefit themselves via a PLEX sale, just noting that if such a spike were to occur, a natural response from CCP would be to put on a sale, because the high in game price would likely increase OOG demand.] ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2017, 7:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-response-needed-whats-being-done-to-lower-plex-prices/11792/581 "2017-09-19T07:16:45Z")
> [@March\_rabbit](#): > > If you sell some PLEX then you cannot just buy more of it (market taxes work well). Unless you artificially make PLEX decline after you sold some… If you sat on it since before the last price jump, you can buy more PLEX than you had before from the profits of your PLEX sales. We dont know how much PLEX is stockpiled. Its anyones guess, but my sense is it some truly shocking figure and that a very substantial amount of that is held on a very small number of accounts. I dont think anything can, or should, be done about it by CCP. But I would suggest that CCPs move to diversifying PLEX services is an attempt to draw out more PLEX to be sunk from those stockpiles. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-response-needed-whats-being-done-to-lower-plex-prices/11792.md?page=28) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-response-needed-whats-being-done-to-lower-plex-prices/11792.md?page=30)