# Ccp response needed. whats being done to lower plex prices **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [July 25, 2017, 6:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-response-needed-whats-being-done-to-lower-plex-prices/11792 "2017-07-25T18:43:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 33
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2017, 8:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-response-needed-whats-being-done-to-lower-plex-prices/11792/642 "2017-12-06T20:31:54Z")
> [@Alderson\_Point](#): > > This will slow down some of the excesses, giving you time to have a more holistic plan. This. The PLEX bubble burst must be forestalled by any and all means necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Alderson\_Point](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alderson_point/32/171891_2.png) [@Alderson\_Point](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alderson_Point)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2017, 8:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-response-needed-whats-being-done-to-lower-plex-prices/11792/643 "2017-12-06T20:36:24Z")
All bubbles burst, but a well ordered economy, limits the extent of the damage, and avoiding bubbles is a responsibility of those managing the overall economy. They are to a degree inevitable as People will exploit any vulnerability, but some of these issues could have been foreseen. A free economy Is lightly regulated to prevent wild excesses, otherwise it becomes an uncontrolled giant boulder crashing downhill, crushing all beneath it, and eventually crashing so hard all that remains is a large pile of shattered rock. I do not believe that any company has the resources or talents required to reassemble the pieces If that happens, Hence dealing with the issue before It gets to that point. No one wins in that scenario. ---
**Author:** ![yellow\_parasol](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yellow_parasol/32/10455_2.png) [@yellow\_parasol](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/yellow_parasol)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2017, 8:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-response-needed-whats-being-done-to-lower-plex-prices/11792/644 "2017-12-06T20:40:28Z")
Three months! Talk about necro! And i am annoyed by myself when it’s just 18 days! ---
**Author:** ![Alderson\_Point](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alderson_point/32/171891_2.png) [@Alderson\_Point](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alderson_Point)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2017, 8:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-response-needed-whats-being-done-to-lower-plex-prices/11792/645 "2017-12-06T20:43:30Z")
It was replying to Falcon, His words have lasting meaning and importance. Ours are like leaves in the wind. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2017, 10:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-response-needed-whats-being-done-to-lower-plex-prices/11792/646 "2017-12-06T22:32:38Z")
> [@Alderson\_Point](#): > > All bubbles burst, but a well ordered economy, limits the extent of the damage, and avoiding bubbles is a responsibility of those managing the overall economy. They are to a degree inevitable as People will exploit any vulnerability, but some of these issues could have been foreseen. I am in complete agreement. There is a disaster waiting to happen in PLEX, which will leak into subs as well. CCP lost control of PLEX years ago, as players started stockpiling it instead of sinking it. The problem with that, is PLEX is synonymous with, yet antipathic to subs. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2017, 11:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-response-needed-whats-being-done-to-lower-plex-prices/11792/647 "2017-12-06T23:58:11Z")
> [@Alderson\_Point](#): > > It is CCP that created citadel markets with zero brokerage fees possible. > > This enabled speculators to buy and sell vast quantities between themself to deliberately inflate the price for profit and wealth growth. Wut? Please provide an explanation of how this works. This kind of thing sounds like a ponzi scheme, which if it is pat yourself on the back for not falling for it and wait for the scheme to fall apart like a house of cards. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > The PLEX bubble burst must be forestalled by any and all means necessary. You cannot forestall an asset bubble from popping. > [@Alderson\_Point](#): > > All bubbles burst, but a well ordered economy, limits the extent of the damage, and avoiding bubbles is a responsibility of those managing the overall economy. Those who study asset price bubbles have concluded that they tend are extremely hard to predict. That is you cannot predict them sufficiently in advance to avoid them. If we could there would not be bubbles. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > I am in complete agreement. > > There is a disaster waiting to happen in PLEX, which will leak into subs as well. The prediction that we are in a bubble with regards to PLEX is pretty much as old as PLEX. Hey maybe it is, after all there is no date on when the game will shut down, but this is a very long lasting bubble…coming up on a decade. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > CCP lost control of PLEX years ago, as players started stockpiling it instead of sinking it. The problem with that, is PLEX is synonymous with, yet antipathic to subs. How many PLEX have been stock piled? Oh…wait, you don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 12:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-response-needed-whats-being-done-to-lower-plex-prices/11792/648 "2017-12-07T00:06:46Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > You cannot forestall an asset bubble from popping. Yes, you can. Perhaps you dont understand what forestall means. > [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > The prediction that we are in a bubble with regards to PLEX is pretty much as old as PLEX. Hey maybe it is, after all there is no date on when the game will shut down, but this is a very long lasting bubble…coming up on a decade. There are fiscal income levels ingame that have not appreciated at the same rate as PLEX. Furthermore, that differential is increasing in magnitude by quarter. > [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > How many PLEX have been stock piled? Oh…wait, you don’t know. All I need to know, is visable on the market. Supply is not meeting demand. How many PLEX do you hold? How many PLEX have you bought from CCP? ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 12:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-response-needed-whats-being-done-to-lower-plex-prices/11792/649 "2017-12-07T00:07:37Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > How many PLEX have been stock piled? Oh…wait, you don’t know. You can estimate from CCP’s financials. Last I knew the stockpile was increasing as inferred from deferred assets or whatever the right wording is. And has been ever since they were introduced. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 12:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-response-needed-whats-being-done-to-lower-plex-prices/11792/650 "2017-12-07T00:14:28Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > > [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > > > How many PLEX have been stock piled? Oh…wait, you don’t know. > > You can estimate from CCP’s financials. Last I knew the stockpile was increasing as inferred from deferred assets or whatever the right wording is. And has been ever since they were introduced. Id be interested to see those and how they are itemized. Where can I find them? ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 12:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-response-needed-whats-being-done-to-lower-plex-prices/11792/651 "2017-12-07T00:17:30Z")
[http://marketsforisk.blogspot.co.nz/2017/05/ccp-financial-statements-for-2016-review.html](http://marketsforisk.blogspot.co.nz/2017/05/ccp-financial-statements-for-2016-review.html) Site has a quick breakdown and how they get it each year. Though I hadn’t read this years report on it yet, only the 2016 report on the 2015 year as the most recent. So it seems like they’ve hidden or reclassified the plex values somewhere. But contains a few interesting things anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 12:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-response-needed-whats-being-done-to-lower-plex-prices/11792/652 "2017-12-07T00:31:24Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Yes, you can. > > Perhaps you dont understand what forestall means. No, you can’t really. People have looked at bubbles, run experiments, etc. and they cannot forestall the crash. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > There are fiscal income levels ingame that have not appreciated at the same rate as PLEX. Furthermore, that differential is increasing in magnitude by quarter. I don’t even know what this means. Predicting when a bubble is about to occur is nearly impossible. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > All I need to know, is visable on the market. Supply is not meeting demand. Actually it is. If supply and demand did not intersect there would be no market. ![diseq](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/b/a/bae6a29ca5cb51b127a9e162831c23e1b368621b.png) ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 12:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-response-needed-whats-being-done-to-lower-plex-prices/11792/653 "2017-12-07T00:44:03Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > No, you can’t really. People have looked at bubbles, run experiments, etc. and they cannot forestall the crash. Again, you seem to not understand what “forestall” means. Any system that creates a bubble, needs to be changed so as to avoid its burst, before it bursts. > [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > I don’t even know what this means. Predicting when a bubble is about to occur is nearly impossible. Bubbles become apparent pretty quickly., and are always a result of irresponsible/unsustainable systems. > [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > Actually it is. If supply and demand did not intersect there would be no market. You are confusing PLEX purchased from CCP, or Buddy PLEX, with existing ingame stockpiles, the latter of which is your pronounced business and self-interest. All evidence points at PLEX purchases from CCP not having increased commensurate with rising price of isk ingame. The assumption that the higher the price of PLEX in isk, the more people will buy PLEX from CCP, has not panned out and arguably was always a fallacy. PLEX traders, like you, infact always hoped it would be so. The less people buy PLEX from CCP, the higher the value of your ingame isk bought PLEX stockpiles is. Its nothing new. History is rife with examples of owners withholding their assets from a market inorder to artificially raise its price. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 4:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-response-needed-whats-being-done-to-lower-plex-prices/11792/654 "2017-12-07T04:05:09Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Again, you seem to not understand what “forestall” means. > > Any system that creates a bubble, needs to be changed so as to avoid its burst, before it bursts. Yeah…not possible. Trust, I know what you are trying to say, but it is not going to work. By the time you realize you are in a bubble it is too late. It is going to burst and when it does it is unpleasant. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Bubbles become apparent pretty quickly., and are always a result of irresponsible/unsustainable systems. Actually, no they don’t. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > You are confusing PLEX purchased from CCP, or Buddy PLEX, with existing ingame stockpiles, the latter of which is your pronounced business and self-interest. No, you said supply is not meeting demand. That graph shows what that is like. There is no market in that case. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > All evidence points at PLEX purchases from CCP not having increased commensurate with rising price of isk ingame. The assumption that the higher the price of PLEX in isk, the more people will buy PLEX from CCP, has not panned out and arguably was always a fallacy. What evidence. You’ve made this claim in another thread and now here, yet there is no evidence just speculation. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > PLEX traders, like you, infact always hoped it would be so. The less people buy PLEX from CCP, the higher the value of your ingame isk bought PLEX stockpiles is. I am buying PLEX so I can PLEX my account. I hold a portion of it in reserve though so if I happen to be at my PC when there is a sudden run up in PLEX prices I can cash out and try to take some profits and then buy back when the price goes back down. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Its nothing new. History is rife with examples of owners withholding their assets from a market inorder to artificially raise its price. This is not really true. Suppose I buy some paltry amount of PLEX, keeping in mind that in the Forge alone there are 1.5 million PLEX on the market. And let’s even say the price goes up. But here is what could happen: other speculators jump in and sell, speculators that bought at a low price, and take the profits I was trying to create by withholding my PLEX from the market. Or I start selling my PLEX and the price starts falling meaning I can really make much profit this way. This idea of timing the market rarely works. Speculators are not hoping their actions will create the high price that they hope to take advantage of, they are hoping to take advantage of information that is unknown to other market participants and thus profit form it. If enough speculators or a big enough speculator does this they may bring about that higher price, but that is as it should be. If a good is going to become relatively more scarce for whatever reason, then that is a supply shock. The price would rise in this event. But if this future event is not known to market participants the price will stay at its current level. The speculator(s) can increase the price sooner reflecting the impending supply shock. This is actually a good thing in that the higher prices will elicit a demand response which can mitigate the effects of the supply shock. ---
**Author:** ![Trashburner\_SoEasy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/trashburner_soeasy/32/11436_2.png) [@Trashburner\_SoEasy](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Trashburner_SoEasy)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 6:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-response-needed-whats-being-done-to-lower-plex-prices/11792/655 "2017-12-07T06:12:23Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > Yeah…not possible. > > Trust, I know what you are trying to say, but it is not going to work. By the time you realize you are in a bubble it is too late. It is going to burst and when it does it is unpleasant. WTFLOL at how absolutely bonkers Tecknos is. 😂 ---
**Author:** ![yellow\_parasol](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yellow_parasol/32/10455_2.png) [@yellow\_parasol](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/yellow_parasol)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 8:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-response-needed-whats-being-done-to-lower-plex-prices/11792/656 "2017-12-07T08:07:35Z")
okay roddybaby. 🙂 /me pats your head. ---
**Author:** ![March\_rabbit](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/march_rabbit/32/453160_2.png) [@March\_rabbit](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/March_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 8:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-response-needed-whats-being-done-to-lower-plex-prices/11792/657 "2017-12-07T08:13:38Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > No, you said supply is not meeting demand. That graph shows what that is like. There is no market in that case. I might be confused but i feel this is not as simple. For example in my city there is many multi story houses get built all the time (averaging with 25 floors). As when i have opportunity to watch i never see empty house after it was finished. Usually it takes month or even less after all place cleans up before it lights all around and has all places for cars taken already. Yes, if you want to buy flat you have huge lists of offers. But you almost never can just look and find new flats in houses built 1-2 years ago selling by developers. In any case this is speculators reselling what they bought previously. And usually developers start to sell flats even when there is no house to show! Usually it happens when there is only hole in the ground for future house. Personally i bought new house but i bought it from previous owner who bought it from developers and resold after 2 years for 1.5x price. It means 2 years after houses were built there was no one still for sale by developer. i can see it wrong but for me it looks like demand exceeds supply by huge. This allows prices to rise, this allows speculators to resell, this allows developers to sell flats 1 year before house is ready. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 4:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-response-needed-whats-being-done-to-lower-plex-prices/11792/658 "2017-12-07T16:52:01Z")
> [@March\_rabbit](#): > > For example in my city there is many multi story houses get built all the time (averaging with 25 floors). As when i have opportunity to watch i never see empty house after it was finished. Usually it takes month or even less after all place cleans up before it lights all around and has all places for cars taken already. This is similar, but not exactly the same. If you have some sort of land use restrictions then you can excess demand where you end up with both too little housing and higher prices. There are no such similar restrictions on PLEX. Note, these restrictions would have to come from CCP, such as limiting when you could use them to PLEX your account. Which you correctly note when you write, > [@March\_rabbit](#): > > i can see it wrong but for me it looks like demand exceeds supply by huge. This allows prices to rise, this allows speculators to resell, this allows developers to sell flats 1 year before house is ready. You are not wrong in your observations, you are just missing that land use restrictions (here in the U.S. these are commonly referred to as zoning laws) will produce the result you are seeing. ---
**Author:** ![Piugattuk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/piugattuk/32/292316_2.png) [@Piugattuk](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Piugattuk)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 5:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-response-needed-whats-being-done-to-lower-plex-prices/11792/659 "2017-12-07T17:08:47Z")
Its an ISK sink, a great one, now more people must sub which means more money for CCP and people stockpile plex, it’s just silly that people react this way and treat plex as a means to an end. Really if CCP wanted to drop prices all they would have to do is have single plexs start dropping as loot…but why mess with the cash cow. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 6:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-response-needed-whats-being-done-to-lower-plex-prices/11792/660 "2017-12-07T18:33:17Z")
> [@Piugattuk](#): > > Its an ISK sink PLEX doesnt sink isk, in any form or fashion. ---
**Author:** ![March\_rabbit](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/march_rabbit/32/453160_2.png) [@March\_rabbit](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/March_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 7:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-response-needed-whats-being-done-to-lower-plex-prices/11792/661 "2017-12-07T19:04:19Z")
It does. A little. In form of market taxes while changing hands. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-response-needed-whats-being-done-to-lower-plex-prices/11792.md?page=32) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-response-needed-whats-being-done-to-lower-plex-prices/11792.md?page=34)