# CCP rise - we could balance abyssal mods by adjusting stats on base modules **URL:** \ **Category:** Upcoming Features & Changes\ **Created:** [April 28, 2018, 7:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-rise-we-could-balance-abyssal-mods-by-adjusting-stats-on-base-modules/73068 "2018-04-28T19:38:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![krakpipe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/krakpipe/32/61065_2.png) [@krakpipe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/krakpipe)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 12:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-rise-we-could-balance-abyssal-mods-by-adjusting-stats-on-base-modules/73068/181 "2018-05-01T00:13:20Z")
So why ask if those mechanics are unbalanced if you were merely pointing out that other RNG mechanics exist in the game ? ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 12:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-rise-we-could-balance-abyssal-mods-by-adjusting-stats-on-base-modules/73068/182 "2018-05-01T00:15:27Z")
> [@krakpipe](#): > > So why ask if those mechanics are unbalanced if you were merely pointing out that other RNG mechanics exist in the game ? Why don’t you do the adult thing and go re-read that exchange. Beast of Revelation also made this comment to which I was replying, > [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](#): > > I’ll do you one better. If you can’t be trusted to balance non-RNG, how the hell are you going to balance RNG? As we saw, Beast of Revelation admits those are balanced. Any other things you need me to explain to you? ---
**Author:** ![krakpipe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/krakpipe/32/61065_2.png) [@krakpipe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/krakpipe)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 12:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-rise-we-could-balance-abyssal-mods-by-adjusting-stats-on-base-modules/73068/183 "2018-05-01T00:17:03Z")
So you can’t answer the question or you won’t, why did you ask if those mechanics are unbalanced if it was not to draw a comparison between them and abysal RNG mods ? ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 12:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-rise-we-could-balance-abyssal-mods-by-adjusting-stats-on-base-modules/73068/184 "2018-05-01T00:17:50Z")
> [@krakpipe](#): > > So you can’t answer the question or you won’t, why did you ask if those mechanics are unbalanced if it was not to draw a comparison between them and abysal RNG mods ? What? Are you 12? I answered it. Your inability to comprehend is something you might want to look into. ---
**Author:** ![krakpipe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/krakpipe/32/61065_2.png) [@krakpipe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/krakpipe)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 12:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-rise-we-could-balance-abyssal-mods-by-adjusting-stats-on-base-modules/73068/185 "2018-05-01T00:29:04Z")
No you really didn’t answer it, considering you asked me too in a question that directly compared T2 invention to Abysal mods. > [@krakpipe](#): > > hmm, can you pay isk and re roll another hit if the damage was not to your liking… didn’t think so > [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > I can with T2 invention. Is that unbalanced? I clearly state that hit RNG is nothing like abysal RNG, making the point that it’s a poor comparison, you attempt to rebutt by asking me if I think T2 invention is unbalanced. You are clearly implying that T2 invention is comparable. Did you forget ? ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 12:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-rise-we-could-balance-abyssal-mods-by-adjusting-stats-on-base-modules/73068/186 "2018-05-01T00:37:33Z")
I quite clearly answered you. Beast of Revelations made a general claim about balancing mechanics that involve RNG. I named several and asked if he thought they were balanced. He wrote that they were. Then you asked if I could pay ISK to get a “redo” on the to hit roll in combat. I said that I can with T2 invention, implying that no I can’t with the to hit roll in combat. Then you moved goal posts and went off about the bonuses…which you note are in a state of flux. So at this point I think it is safe to say the RNG is not the problem in terms of balance. It is the bonuses that this could bring about. I doubt you’ll admit this, but your shifting of the goal posts is enough of an admission for me. ---
**Author:** ![krakpipe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/krakpipe/32/61065_2.png) [@krakpipe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/krakpipe)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 12:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-rise-we-could-balance-abyssal-mods-by-adjusting-stats-on-base-modules/73068/187 "2018-05-01T00:49:35Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > Then you asked if I could pay ISK to get a “redo” on the to hit roll in combat. I said that I can with T2 invention, implying that no I can’t with the to hit roll in combat. Then you moved goal posts and went off about the bonuses > [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > I can with T2 invention. **Is that unbalanced?** Nope, you conveniently left off the part of the question where you ask me if I think that is balanced. In a thread about balancing the stats on abysal mods I’d like to know what on earth you were comparing it to if not that. I’m sorry it annoys that I ask you to be accountable for the things you say, but hey, I’m acting like a 12 year old, we’re irritating like that. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 3:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-rise-we-could-balance-abyssal-mods-by-adjusting-stats-on-base-modules/73068/188 "2018-05-01T03:51:08Z")
Yes you are irritating like a 12 year old. You can’t follow the discussion. You move goal posts. You lose sight of the actual issue. Is the fact that I can spend ISK to get another roll on T2 unbalanced? You never really answered. Don’t bother answering I don’t think you can. ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 5:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-rise-we-could-balance-abyssal-mods-by-adjusting-stats-on-base-modules/73068/189 "2018-05-01T05:01:55Z")
Don’t be silly, invention and other RNG based mechanics in EvE are fine, because they are combined with skill or have predictable outcomes, and don’t feel like _gambling_ except ECM. ECM is gambling, it’s emotional, you press a button, and you win or lose your ship based purely on luck. Mutaplasmids now are closest to a slot machine, no skill, no predictable outcome, put ISK in, win or lose purely on luck. May personal problem with this stuff is not so much the gambling, sorry addicts, but the potential proliferation of strong abyssal mods, so you may not be able to ignore them like you can purple stuff today. This has devasting results to balance in game. If a ship gets too strong it’s usually because it allows for OP fittings, so you nerf fitting space. Today with the fixed set of modules, you have to make a compromise, because not everything works. In future, you just roll the dice until you get it to work again … … hence simple fitting space nerfs will not lead to different fittings, but a new round of rolls where modules are matched to the new stats. The only “solution” is to consider abyssal continuum when defining stats of base modules and ships, equals to make them crap, resulting in abyssal mods to be mandatory for everyone. ---
**Author:** ![krakpipe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/krakpipe/32/61065_2.png) [@krakpipe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/krakpipe)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 7:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-rise-we-could-balance-abyssal-mods-by-adjusting-stats-on-base-modules/73068/190 "2018-05-01T07:38:56Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > Yes you are irritating like a 12 year old. You can’t follow the discussion. You move goal posts. You lose sight of the actual issue. Is the fact that I can spend ISK to get another roll on T2 unbalanced? You never really answered. Don’t bother answering I don’t think you can. There you go again, asking me if I think T2 invention is balanced, in a thread about balance of Abysal mod RNG. You really going to claim that you aren’t asking me to compare the two ? My answer is sure, it was horribly unfair (unbalanced) before BPCs, fairer (better balanced) when BPCs came, RNG (along with skills) affects success / failure and throwing isk at re-rolls increases chances of success so it’s not perfectly fair (balanced) but since BPCs all produce the same item with the same stats, it doesn’t break balance in the wider game. There you go, a slightly less than fair (balanced) lottery combined with fair (balanced) skill level that doesn’t affect balance in other areas of the game by producing items with wildly differing and potentially OP stats. Now why are you asking me this (again) ? Is it really a just a freakishly specific coincidence that it just happens to be in a thread about abysal mod RNG stats or are you drawing a comparison ? edit for clarity ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 7:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-rise-we-could-balance-abyssal-mods-by-adjusting-stats-on-base-modules/73068/191 "2018-05-01T07:52:32Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > Yes, I too like to ■■■■■ about things in hindsight to pretend I’m truly brilliant You are the one that said not to worry, cos CCP can always nerf/change it afterwards. Funny how you conveniently skipped that now. ---
**Author:** ![Jeremiah\_Saken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jeremiah_saken/32/266740_2.png) [@Jeremiah\_Saken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jeremiah_Saken)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 7:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-rise-we-could-balance-abyssal-mods-by-adjusting-stats-on-base-modules/73068/192 "2018-05-01T07:55:27Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > No, not really. What if more people start doing them? Is every site being run right now? And how are respawns determined? Once you run a site when does a new one spawn? yes, they are, let’s say CCP set machariels drop at 20% per site. After a while machariels will reach their equilibrium. Like they do few months ago. I have a better example. I want to build zeugma analyzer, materials for that module are dropped from data sites. It’s random, few per site. Module demand is high, so I want to build them. There is only one but, supply of the materials don’t reach the demand. Module is rising in price. Now if you want to build something that need PI materials for example, you’ll just build PI factory chain and supply it for yourself, I can’t do that because there is a fixed number of drops, and I can’t build them for myself (part of the problem is that module need huge amount of them while sites drops only few). ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 8:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-rise-we-could-balance-abyssal-mods-by-adjusting-stats-on-base-modules/73068/193 "2018-05-01T08:08:01Z")
The meta agenda of these changes strongly favors Player NS: - They want their T2 production, as stock for mutation, and subsequent desireable products, to replace DED/LP modules. - T2 demand will go up. DED/LP module demand will go down. - They seem to want Sleeper salvage/loot as well in the sites, so as to get their own rather than buying T3 mats from WH, or have to split their player base into WHs to source them. - They are strongly lobbying to get the high tier filaments to be runnable exclusively in NS. (Ie: secured Player NS systems where they can farm filaments/pockets all day and night) - As a contingency, they are also lobbying that the same pockets would provide greater reward in NS, than elsewhere. - They want the BPs/top filaments/greatest plasmutid hauls also thus to be NS exclusive. ---
**Author:** ![krakpipe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/krakpipe/32/61065_2.png) [@krakpipe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/krakpipe)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 8:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-rise-we-could-balance-abyssal-mods-by-adjusting-stats-on-base-modules/73068/194 "2018-05-01T08:18:38Z")
> [@krakpipe](#): > > MWD speed change will be capped at 10% in either direction, that’s 2 reduction since the announcement, pretty hopeful on game balance… quoting myself to clarify thoughts on this after further consideration. HAKIM’S MODIFIED 500MN MICROWARPDRIVE - speed boost 516% (3.2 % better than T2) Abyssal mod potential speed change - 550% (10% better than T2) Even at this vastly reduced range, Abysal improvement can outstrip the officer improvement by more than 3 times, what’s more alarming is that they originally started at a point where 40% (700% speed boost) was possible. ---
**Author:** ![Jeremiah\_Saken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jeremiah_saken/32/266740_2.png) [@Jeremiah\_Saken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jeremiah_Saken)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 8:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-rise-we-could-balance-abyssal-mods-by-adjusting-stats-on-base-modules/73068/195 "2018-05-01T08:27:48Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > They seem to want Sleeper salvage/loot as well in the sites, so as to get their own rather than buying T3 mats from WH, or have to split their player base into WHs to source them. source? > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > They are strongly lobbying to get the high tier filaments to be runnable exclusively in NS. (Ie: secured Player NS systems where they can farm filaments/pockets all day and night) source? ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 8:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-rise-we-could-balance-abyssal-mods-by-adjusting-stats-on-base-modules/73068/196 "2018-05-01T08:28:48Z")
Player NS has no real access to LP, and their DED module generation is limited by how often the sites spawn through their systems. They are furthermore the sector of Officer generation. What they do have in abundance though, is T2 mats to make modules with. Frankly more than they can sell. They would love nothing more than to: - Spam mutations on their surplus T2 stock. - Thus increasing T2 module price AND getting the occassional pay out for a well mutated T2 module. - Run exclusive NS filaments (or with greater reward) smack bang in their most secure systems, all day and all night as long as they have filaments without having to wait or look for DED spawns. Its as ingenius, as it nefarious. ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Pedro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_pedro/32/257285_2.png) [@Black\_Pedro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Pedro)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 9:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-rise-we-could-balance-abyssal-mods-by-adjusting-stats-on-base-modules/73068/197 "2018-05-01T09:09:46Z")
> [@Jeremiah\_Saken](#): > > > They are strongly lobbying to get the high tier filaments to be runnable exclusively in NS. (Ie: secured Player NS systems where they can farm filaments/pockets all day and night) > > source? I don’t think there is any source for that. From what CCP and the CSM has said there was no plan to let them be exclusively run in nullsec. The only issue was how to incentivize them not to be only run in highsec. In fact, all the reports of the people testing the sites on SiSi say that CCP has gone with letting the sites be run anywhere, with the T4 and T5 sites are giving the players a suspect flag on completion. That is subject to change of course, but I think it is a pretty strong indication that all sites will indeed be able to be run everywhere, including highsec. There will be no nullsec exclusivity and there will be no other loot than blueprints, mutaplasmids and more filaments to run additional sites. Anyone claiming otherwise is just indulging in unfounded conspiracy theories. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 9:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-rise-we-could-balance-abyssal-mods-by-adjusting-stats-on-base-modules/73068/198 "2018-05-01T09:32:20Z")
> [@Black\_Pedro](#): > > There will be no nullsec exclusivity and there will be no other loot than blueprints, mutaplasmids and more filaments to run additional sites. I hope so. ---
**Author:** ![SoulLess\_Zealot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/soulless_zealot/32/197025_2.png) [@SoulLess\_Zealot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/SoulLess_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 1:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-rise-we-could-balance-abyssal-mods-by-adjusting-stats-on-base-modules/73068/199 "2018-05-01T13:52:49Z")
That’s what will bring me back to the game… People will feel safer about flying there ship… so there will be more fights ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 4:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-rise-we-could-balance-abyssal-mods-by-adjusting-stats-on-base-modules/73068/200 "2018-05-02T04:35:57Z")
> [@Jeremiah\_Saken](#): > > yes, they are, let’s say CCP set machariels drop at 20% per site. After a while machariels will reach their equilibrium. Like they do few months ago. Equilibrium is not destiny. As you note, when CCP changes something the equilibrium changes, usually via both the supply and the demand in the market. CCP’s change to drop rates changes the supply, an inward shift of the supply curve. For demand the response would be a movement along the demand curve. > [@Jeremiah\_Saken](#): > > I have a better example. I want to build zeugma analyzer, materials for that module are dropped from data sites. It’s random, few per site. Module demand is high, so I want to build them. There is only one but, supply of the materials don’t reach the demand. Module is rising in price. Now if you want to build something that need PI materials for example, you’ll just build PI factory chain and supply it for yourself, I can’t do that because there is a fixed number of drops, and I can’t build them for myself (part of the problem is that module need huge amount of them while sites drops only few). Run more sites. Or wait till others run more sites and put them for sale on the market. This does not mean that supply is fixed–i.e. has a perfectly inelastic [price elasticity of supply](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_elasticity_of_supply). I’ll also note you’ve backed off your claim that supply in game does not adapt as you’ve given an example where supply is more adaptive (elastic) to price changes. My point is until we get an idea of how much of this stuff there is we won’t know the exact effects. Imagine trying to price a machariel without know the drop rate at all. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-rise-we-could-balance-abyssal-mods-by-adjusting-stats-on-base-modules/73068.md?page=9) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-rise-we-could-balance-abyssal-mods-by-adjusting-stats-on-base-modules/73068.md?page=11)