# CCP screws everyone but big nullsec cartels **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [August 22, 2018, 4:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907 "2018-08-22T16:23:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/beast_of_revelations/32/413187_2.png) [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Beast_of_Revelations)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 7:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/21 "2018-08-22T19:13:43Z")
Are you going to tell me your rewards operating in Stain came within an order of magnitude of casually picking your nose, crunching on cereal, watching netflix, yawning, and casually looking over to hack another box as you make yet another 100mil ISK score? If not, then do we not agree? ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 7:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/22 "2018-08-22T19:24:33Z")
I agree with that part of it, but it is a different kind of effort required when you are in a null sec sov alliance because you have to get involved in defending your space and it costs in time, and lost ships. You should see the damn fits I have to have for doctrine caps and supers, seriously scary in terms of ISK. Take the NPC stations in Stain, you can dock carriers and dreads in them and you do not have to defend that. In sov space it is a Fortizar 10bn + fit or a Keepstar which costs 300bn to build and fit. Forts are not that difficult to take down with a competent fleet. I used to do a mixture of stuff in Stain and I always earnt a lot less than what I could in sov nullsec, but in effect the defensive need was not the same. But if the drops on relic and data sites is skewed on truesec then it is stupid…, I could not tell you because ever since the puke system on exploration I could not face doing them anymore, so I can’t really compare in my own experience. PS I did not do missions in Stain however, which is very very good ISK. ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Pervert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/old_pervert/32/149708_2.png) [@Old\_Pervert](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Old_Pervert)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 7:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/23 "2018-08-22T19:33:27Z")
> [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](#): > > 100% safety. Think of it more like highsec. You can still get dropped on while you’re under a super umbrella. They might even get you. But when the hammer drops, they’re gonna lose their ■■■■ afterward. As for rewards, well, I’d say that assuming the requisite improvements are installed, nullsov should be worth more than npc null given the need to maintain possession of the space. Not a lot more, but more. ---
**Author:** ![Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/beast_of_revelations/32/413187_2.png) [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Beast_of_Revelations)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 7:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/24 "2018-08-22T19:52:48Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > I agree with that part of it, but it is a different kind of effort required when you are in a null sec sov alliance because you have to get involved in defending your space and it costs in time, and lost ships. You should see the damn fits I have to have for doctrine caps and supers, seriously scary in terms of ISK. Sure, players in small corps in small nullsec alliances might have to put up with this. But come on. What do you think most goon industrialists have been doing for the last couple of years? Spending serious time and effort ‘defending their space,’ or sitting parked in their Rorquals, picking their noses, watching Netflix, and yawning as the ISK train rolls in? Yeah yeah, there’s a war now - I get it. So a war every couple of years where you might have to jump into a fleet every once in a while? The overwhelming majority of the people I know who belong to one of these nullsec cartels don’t have to own all these doctrine ships, or be involved in ‘defending their space’ blah blah. It’s just an ISK machine. A gravy train. I’m not insulting it, or them. I’m just saying, if that’s the way CCP wants it to be, quit trolling us with all the bullsh!t. ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 7:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/25 "2018-08-22T19:58:22Z")
Are you playing solo over there, in npc nullsec? I ask, because if that’s what you do and you constantly die … … without really making any isk … … then that’s how it works, and you just don’t know better. Though there might also be a chance that you are simply doing it wrong … … don’t know better … … and base the whole thread on that. Do you at least use scouts? ---
**Author:** ![Fluffy\_Moe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fluffy_moe/32/11132_2.png) [@Fluffy\_Moe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fluffy_Moe)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 7:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/26 "2018-08-22T19:58:23Z")
> [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](#): > > I’m currently out in NPC null grinding my fingers to the bone trying to make ISK. I’m getting my ships blown up, my pods (with implants) podded, and am not making anything as far as ISK is concerned. > > Would I normally complain about any of this? No. I’m not entitled, I don’t expect to be handed anything on a silver platter, I take risks and expect bad things to happen. But I’m told that with risks come rewards. > > No, I wouldn’t normally complain. Except that a friend of mine recently joined one of the big nullsec cartels. 100% safety. And ISK handed to him on a silver platter. The guy doesn’t even bother ratting in a carrier anymore. He hacks relic sites, and gets 100mil ISK per pop. Me? I hacked data and relic sites in wormholes FOR A SOLID YEAR, and I think the biggest score I ever got out of a can was 30mil ISK, and that only happened a couple of times, and I took on extreme risk to do it, and had extreme losses. But this guy wakes up bleary-eyed, nonchalantly logs in, crunches on cereal while watching netflix, picking his nose, and casually flying around hacking sites while half paying attention, and gets 100mil scores out of cans. > > CCP, either adjust other elements of the game (wormholes, npc null, lowsec, etc) so that reward scales with risk, or remove all other elements of the game and force everyone into sov null. > > Pricks. You got really unlucky in WHs if thats all you have been making. Granted good sites aren’t common and they get picked really quick, but you can get more then that. As far as NPC null goes, I agree with you. I made way more in low LS in 0.2 and 0.1 systems then in NPC null. Between ratting of various kinds I would make around 500 mil per session, including LP but not loot. And this was in sub caps, no carriers. So it really wasn’t that bad. Also, for some odd reason I would say those low LS systems had best wormhole access. Often there would be 6 or even sometimes 8 WHs in a system, this happened frequently whereas in other regions it happens rarely. The concept of higher risk area, team play etc. is solid. There are plenty of games that use it both PvP and PvE alike, what is not solid is the rate of the difference here. It should be more around 2-3 times max, and IMHO it should be based of off HS income. LS should yield 1.5-2.0 times the income of HS, NS should yield 2.0-2.5 times the income of HS, WHs should yield 2.5-3.0 times the HS income. Then NS should substract and lower that due to sov safety. In addition, CCP should manually adjust it down due to botting income multiplier. Instead its something like NS makes 10-20 times the HS income with disregard for botting. This is what throws the entire game completely out of whack. Sov null + botting is what keeps the cap proliferation rate going so high. If you were to actually trace resources that came from botting to build caps, and blew up those caps I would not be surprised if somewhere around 1/2 or even up to 3/4 of all caps would be gone and many of the big blocks would completely collapse so of course their trolls, propaganda officers, boot lickers etc. all spew ■■■■■■■■ to try to make it look otherwise. Spew all they want, this is true and the bottom line of it. And if CCP was actually really serious about botting then they would perma ban all the alliance and corp leaders that look the other way and take ISk or resources or any other form of payment to look the other way and in many cases defend the bots territories so they can keep on botting for them. But CCP as a company lacks the balls to actually do anything serious, they literally fear the big blocks. ---
**Author:** ![Sugar\_Smacks](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sugar_smacks/32/430124_2.png) [@Sugar\_Smacks](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sugar_Smacks)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 8:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/27 "2018-08-22T20:11:11Z")
Let me explain what is happening, especially since you are being spammed with nonsense. The reason he makes so much on Null relic sites compared to Wormholes is obvious. He lives in Null Sansha space. Had he lived anywhere else he would not be making even near to what he is off relic sites, and also you living in wormholes have only a 1 in 4 chance for the site he gets everytime. Why is Sansha space so important you say? For some reason CCP has made it that ONLY Sansha space relic sites can give intact armor plates. No other pirates give these, so no matter where you live if you aren’t in Sansha doing relics then your relics aren’t paying even close to theres. Why is this? Good question. Now back to your page long answers that answer nothing you asked. P.S. if you desire proof I recommend tuning into Rushlock on Twitch as he will fully explain this as this is his prime activity. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 8:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/28 "2018-08-22T20:21:51Z")
Yes, you are correct, I should have realised that, I have corp / alliance mates and they really go on about it when they get the intact armour plates. 100% spot on. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Engraver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dark_engraver/32/45178_2.png) [@Dark\_Engraver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dark_Engraver)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 9:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/29 "2018-08-22T21:09:03Z")
Sounds to me like you’re doing it wrong. Kiss the ring or remain a poor scrub,the choice is yours:) ---
**Author:** ![Veryez](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/veryez/32/508712_2.png) [@Veryez](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Veryez)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 9:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/30 "2018-08-22T21:43:47Z")
> [@Dark\_Engraver](#): > > Sounds to me like you’re doing it wrong. > > Kiss the ring or remain a poor scrub,the choice is yours:) There was a time when CCP advertised how you could do “whatever you want” in EvE, back then EvE was growing every year. Sure some avenues were more lucrative than others, but you could carve out a good living and have fun once you learned the game. So along comes CCP Seagull and her grand Rubicon plan to get people out into SOV null, by boosting rewards to insane levels, while lowering the risk (asset safety). As an aside, I actually spend quite a bit of time at the beach, and seagulls are vile, disgusting creatures, we often describe as ‘rats with wings’…But I digress… How’s that worked out for EvE? This attitude, that there is only one way to play EvE, is EvE’s greatest failure. I only hope CCP figures that out. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Engraver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dark_engraver/32/45178_2.png) [@Dark\_Engraver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dark_Engraver)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 9:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/31 "2018-08-22T21:47:33Z")
Your stuff was always safe in an enemy conquered station don’t shove asset safety forward. ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 9:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/32 "2018-08-22T21:47:56Z")
> [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](#): > > not insulting it, or them. I’m just saying, if that’s the way CCP wants it to be, quit trolling us with all the bullsh!t. In nullsec everyone gets dropped on but people like you first and its not CCPs fault. You refuse to organise a minimal security fleet in nullsec. It is you, not CCP. ---
**Author:** ![Veryez](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/veryez/32/508712_2.png) [@Veryez](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Veryez)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 9:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/33 "2018-08-22T21:48:28Z")
How safe is it in wormholes - the part of EvE that I enjoy the most… ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Engraver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dark_engraver/32/45178_2.png) [@Dark\_Engraver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dark_Engraver)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 9:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/34 "2018-08-22T21:49:04Z")
As safe as it was before asset safety too ---
**Author:** ![Veryez](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/veryez/32/508712_2.png) [@Veryez](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Veryez)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 9:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/35 "2018-08-22T21:52:19Z")
Oh lets see, 1. No Local 2. No Asset Safety 3. Having to haul everything back to Kspace to make a single isk 4. Teamwork required to run higher sights 5. Having to move to keep finding good sites And SIGNIFICANTLY lower rewards than SOV null. Yup, fair and balanced to me… ---
**Author:** ![Hir\_Miriel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hir_miriel/32/81715_2.png) [@Hir\_Miriel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hir_Miriel)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 9:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/36 "2018-08-22T21:52:52Z")
High security space is for the working poor. Low security space is for the ghetto poor. Null security space is for the comfort of the suburbs, where you can enjoy the benefits of a privileged life in the safety of numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Engraver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dark_engraver/32/45178_2.png) [@Dark\_Engraver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dark_Engraver)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 9:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/37 "2018-08-22T21:54:08Z")
What significant lower ■■■■■■■■ you spin? Your wormhole buddies keep boasting bilions of isk per hour doing sites ---
**Author:** ![Veryez](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/veryez/32/508712_2.png) [@Veryez](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Veryez)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 9:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/38 "2018-08-22T21:55:43Z")
You don’t see many wormholers boasting about 60 mil per tick in their super now do you? ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Engraver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dark_engraver/32/45178_2.png) [@Dark\_Engraver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dark_Engraver)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 9:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/39 "2018-08-22T21:58:08Z")
Yes our measly 180mil/hour will blot out the sun. Do you even know both the environments you speak about in isk generating? ---
**Author:** ![Veryez](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/veryez/32/508712_2.png) [@Veryez](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Veryez)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 10:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/40 "2018-08-22T22:03:42Z")
> [@Dark\_Engraver](#): > > Yes our measly **CONSISTENT** 180mil/hour will blot out the sun. There fixed for you… Look, I like this life, and I would continue it even if CCP nerfed the rewards. But look in the mirror for a second. You were SUPPOSED to be able to succeed at whatever profession you chose in EvE. You were SUPPOSED to be able to “do what you want” in EvE. Your thinking, that there is only one correct way to play EvE (which CCP has promoted, with their changes oner the years) , hasn’t helped the game. I’m glad you like living in SOV Null, and hell someday I might wind up there too, but being forced because every other choice is clearly ‘second class’ is just wrong for a ‘sandbox’ game. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907.md?page=3)