# CCP screws everyone but big nullsec cartels **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [August 22, 2018, 4:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907 "2018-08-22T16:23:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![March\_rabbit](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/march_rabbit/32/453160_2.png) [@March\_rabbit](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/March_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 4:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/386 "2018-08-29T16:20:46Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > CCP could also turn all of Delve into Drone country. … then Goons will move to (for example) Fountain. Now you will ask CCP to ruin Fountain? Ok. THey make a circle over the universe (and they _can_ do this) and the result is what exactly? ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 4:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/387 "2018-08-29T16:30:49Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > If Pandemic Legion could, I am sure they would develop a plague that would decimate Imperium forces and then basically everyone, as their dying wish. Especially vector of virulence would be directed against Titans and Citadels. World would suffer. What are you smoking? ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 4:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/388 "2018-08-29T16:38:32Z")
I dont smoke, I drink Vherokior herbal tea. It clears mind and makes you see thing as they truly are. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 6:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/389 "2018-08-29T18:16:31Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > Clever, but crying when someone wants to make it harder for you? Because they will challenge your “clever ways” lol. > > I want to see CCP devs saying to you “Git gud” by changing rules. Fine, but it should be changes that apply to everyone not just Goons. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 6:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/390 "2018-08-29T18:45:50Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > Fine, but it should be changes that apply to everyone not just Goons. All CCP changes apply to everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 6:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/391 "2018-08-29T18:51:19Z")
> [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](#): > > Nonsense. CCP has a basis of risk/reward which they built into the game. It’s why highsec sucks as far as income. Highsec income doesn’t suck because of player choices, LOL. > > The problem is, they didn’t get risk/reward right, or maybe they did initially, but it has become skewed over time. Thus this post. This is partially correct. CCP sets the environment up for us. The rats, the asteroid belts, moons with goo, etc. They also determine, as @Nasar_Vyron notes rules like CONCORD and their response times, gate guns, etc. Now within this environment players go out and do things. And how players do things determines their final degree of risk. If I put 500 million into a freighter and fly it around I am facing very little risk…why? Because I am not a very enticing target to gankers who gank for profit. Suppose I get war decced. Players are taking actions and making decisions (yes to use mechanics that CCP provides) to increase my risk level. The players decided this, not CCP. CCP provided the mechanics to change my risk level, but CCP did not do it themselves. I can respond as well to reduce my risk in the event of war. I can switch over to cheap ships or stay docked or drop to an NPC corp…or if I live in NS just live there for the duration. The idea that risk is determined by CCP is false. They set the environment in which we determine risk for ourselves and each other. If I am prudent I mitigate my risk. If I am not I take on more risk…usually because there are players looking to take advantage of that increased risk taking. Case in point players who gank freighters for profit. If you put 12 billion ISK in cargo value into your freighter are you taking on more risk or less? I argue more. Is CCP imposing that risk? No. You are and so are the players who gank for profit. The only role CCP played was in setting up the environment that let you take on such risk and let other exploit it for their profit. CCP is not making anyone do anything in this scenario. The risk you face in this scenario is largely of your own making coupled with the fact that there are players who will take advantage of your imprudence. So the question boils down to…are Goons mitigating their risk in Delve and thus are more able to exploit the value of Delve? And note this is not “free”. It comes at the expense of people’s time. These are players _playing the game._ Goons have invested alot of time and effort in making their space safe. Everyone blathers on about risk vs. reward, but then they leave out effort. If Goons are facing lower risk and it is via effort…well that is actually a good thing. If you don’t like it asking CCP for a nerf makes you no better than those wanting bumping removed because they don’t want to play prudently. > [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > Which drives even more people into CFC. Good work. Indeed. Be careful what you wish for. This could incentivize people into grouping up even more to protect their stuff. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > Yep, my ass will be in Goons when that happens. See. Looking for a safe harbor when your risk goes up is not an unreasonable response. In fact, it is entirely reasonable. > [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](#): > > > (continually). > > I neglect nothing, you are just off point. The point isn’t ‘maintaining space,’ it’s risk/reward, convenience/reward, difficulty/reward, etc. No, Mingja is correct. You are ignoring effort. Why is Delve “safer”? Is it naturally that way? Or are Goons doing something to make it safer? If it is the latter then that is called “effort”. > [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](#): > > Whatever the answer to your question is, it is irrelevant to me and to the topic of this post. Yes, lets not be bothered by valid points, arguments and observations. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 6:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/392 "2018-08-29T18:53:43Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > The idea that risk is determined by CCP is false. CCP sets the risk/reward parameters in this aquarium we play in. What we do within that, is up to us. Risk/reward is primarily defined by CCP, as objective and applies to all. Whether, and how, we engage in that system, is subjective. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 6:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/393 "2018-08-29T18:54:12Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > All CCP changes apply to everyone. And there is the possibility you’ll still have the relative disparity noted in the MERs. Is what we are seeing in the MERs due to Goons effort, culture etc.? If so then they’ll take that effort, those norms, and culture with them. And one thing I have noticed about Goons as I have both fought them and fought with them they are very adaptable. That is part of their culture…so nothing might change. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 6:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/394 "2018-08-29T18:56:03Z")
What incredible nonsense. Do you dispute that all CCP changes to EVE apply to everyone? ---
**Author:** ![Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/beast_of_revelations/32/413187_2.png) [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Beast_of_Revelations)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 7:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/395 "2018-08-29T19:21:45Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > This is partially correct. > > CCP sets the environment up for us. The rats, the asteroid belts, moons with goo, etc… Now within this environment players go out and do things. Here you are arguing about things that nobody disputes. You are also not understanding what the OP is about, even though it has been stated numerous different ways in this post. > [@](#): > > The idea that risk is determined by CCP is false. And you are wrong again. Is a wormhole riskier than highsec? Yes. Was that determined by CCP? Yes. > [@](#): > > So the question boils down to…are Goons mitigating their risk in Delve and thus are more able to exploit the value of Delve? No, that isn’t the question. The question is whether risk/reward, convenience/reward, difficulty/reward, etc. are where they should be regarding different areas of space. In particular, is sov nullsec getting reward greater than their risk, when compared to e.g. wormhole space? ---
**Author:** ![Mingja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mingja/32/50857_2.png) [@Mingja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mingja)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 7:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/396 "2018-08-29T19:22:10Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Do you dispute that all CCP changes to EVE apply to everyone? Do you dispute that players produce different outcomes within the set of rules as defined by CCP? > [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](#): > > Having said that, the reason the inhabitants of those systems you speak of were able to develop the space is because CCP gave them the exclusive tools to develop it - tools which nobody else in any other area of space received. and which tools would that be? ---
**Author:** ![Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/beast_of_revelations/32/413187_2.png) [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Beast_of_Revelations)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 7:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/397 "2018-08-29T19:23:57Z")
> [@Mingja](#): > > and which tools would that be? The infrastructure upgrades which spawn anomalies and whatever else. ---
**Author:** ![Mingja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mingja/32/50857_2.png) [@Mingja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mingja)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 7:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/398 "2018-08-29T19:24:39Z")
> [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](#): > > And you are wrong again. Is a wormhole riskier than highsec? Yes. Was that determined by CCP? Yes. care to explain Jita? Players have a lot more influx on the Risk in any given space than CCP. > [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](#): > > The infrastructure upgrades which spawn anomalies and whatever else. and why do you think they did that? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 7:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/399 "2018-08-29T19:26:39Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > CCP sets the risk/reward parameters in this aquarium we play in. Actually the problem is two-fold. People often talk about risk versus reward, but they don’t make a clear distinction from where the risk and the reward is coming from. CCP can only control the risk and the reward coming from NPCs. But often do players talk about risk vs reward when they’re really referring to other players. When the risk is to get shot and reward is a sales value, then the discussions often end in misunderstandings. CCP doesn’t control those scenarios, but it’s entirely in the players’ hand. It gets then only twisted when someone talks about risk vs. reward, and means the risk of getting shot by a player and the reward being an NPC bounty. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 7:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/400 "2018-08-29T19:31:28Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > CCP can only control the risk and the reward coming from NPCs. No. CCP has objectively set all the parameters in this game. What players do within those is subjective and incidental. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 7:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/401 "2018-08-29T19:32:26Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > What players do within it, is subjective and incidental. Exactly. The risk versus reward isn’t all controlled by CCP. Some is created and controlled by players. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 7:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/402 "2018-08-29T19:33:15Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > Some is created and controlled by players. The parameters of EVE are neither created or controlled by players. You are still confusing the objective, with the subjective. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 7:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/403 "2018-08-29T19:34:02Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > The parameters of EVE are neither created or controlled by players. When I set the price of an item, then I’m in control of the price. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 7:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/404 "2018-08-29T19:34:16Z")
CCP as players and actual creators of this game are also creating risks. In a method that is unavailable to the rest of players that are not creators. But maybe I exagerate when I say CCP are creators. They look like JANITORS recently. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 7:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/405 "2018-08-29T19:34:58Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > > > The parameters of EVE are neither created or controlled by players. > > When I set the price of an item, then I’m in control of the price. What price you set for your item, is subjective. You will still pay overhead to NPC services, as objective. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907.md?page=19) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907.md?page=21)