# CCP screws everyone but big nullsec cartels **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [August 22, 2018, 4:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907 "2018-08-22T16:23:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![Dark\_Engraver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dark_engraver/32/45178_2.png) [@Dark\_Engraver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dark_Engraver)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 12:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/506 "2018-08-30T12:12:13Z")
Salvos and gigx MUST meet ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 12:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/507 "2018-08-30T12:13:29Z")
> [@Dark\_Engraver](#): > > Salvos and gigx MUST meet Isn’t GigX the former leader of Circle of Two who got permabanned for making personal threats in-game? ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Engraver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dark_engraver/32/45178_2.png) [@Dark\_Engraver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dark_Engraver)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 12:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/508 "2018-08-30T12:13:54Z")
Maybeeee. Since we made it to hand cuting it’s only fitting ---
**Author:** ![Butt\_Cigar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/butt_cigar/32/131787_2.png) [@Butt\_Cigar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Butt_Cigar)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 12:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/509 "2018-08-30T12:14:53Z")
I have no idea what this thread is about, but what I’ve noticed is that every Eve forum thread, 500 posts in, is a pointless dick-swinging competition between two egomaniacs. Everyone else has switched off. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 12:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/510 "2018-08-30T12:22:31Z")
> [@Butt\_Cigar](#): > > I have no idea what this thread is about It’s about the perception of what is a risk and what is a reward, and the need to match one against the other. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 12:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/511 "2018-08-30T12:36:50Z")
> [@Bjorn\_Tyrson](#): > > it won’t result in a riskier eve, if anything it will result in a safer eve. So you resist Delayed Local, no Asset Safety, no Insurance and limited Watchlist on the premise it will make Player NS **safer** than now? C’mon, man… Thats clearly bullcrap. **Ofc it will reduce systemic safety/security in Player NS. Thats the whole point.** Inversly, as proof of nonsense, do you think instituting Delayed Local, no Asset Safety, no Insurance and limited Watchlist in HS would make HS safer? Of course not. Wake up! ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 12:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/512 "2018-08-30T12:49:54Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > It’s about the perception of what is a risk and what is a reward, and the need to match one against the other. Well summed up. Nailed it. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 12:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/513 "2018-08-30T12:57:53Z")
He said this in terms of delayed local: > [@Bjorn\_Tyrson](#): > > t won’t result in a riskier eve, if anything it will result in a safer eve. > delayed local just means we will put scouts on every in-gate. which means that instead of just knowing that you are in system, we will know you are in system AND what you are flying. (right now you can usually slip though as No Visual pings on intel channels) which means we can form better counters. Since Rorqual mining came into play and we have a period when people have cover and stuff we also have the Rorqual players setting up to give much better intel. So people now make the effort to be on gates to ascertain the risk better, so we get much better intel, people run around checking for new sigs and people react to WH’s and close them. It has made ratting in those periods so much safer. I agree with him, but what that will do is push people towards the bigger entities. > [@Bjorn\_Tyrson](#): > > removal of asset safety will just mean either going back to the days of pos’s where we kept the majority of our assets in HS or low. or more likely, would just mean we would drop a bunch of extra citadels and spread out assets out. making taking space even more grindy. and, as was mentioned above, would make destroying any hostile citadels a MUCH larger priority, pushing out any smaller groups trying to gain a foothold (that currently may be left alone because its not worth the effort) Is exactly what will happen, likely reducing content because smaller groups will not be able to compete against the Super/Titan blobs that will head shot their staging. > [@Bjorn\_Tyrson](#): > > decoupling of insurance is just a bad idea in general, there are a TON of new players in null. and far more people than you would think who can barely afford doctrine fits as it is. insurance gets them back out into space leading to even more destruction. (although I have been in favor of removing insurance for capitals for a very long time. and i’m saying that as a capital pilot) His suggestion about removing insurance for capitals is reasonable. Most rich players don’t bother to insure BS and down, but many players do. > [@Bjorn\_Tyrson](#): > > limited watchlist does what exactly? it made sense back when capitals and supers couldn’t dock anywhere. so if you saw a known cap or super pilot log in you KNEW they would be dropping that cap. these days you are no longer locked into your space coffin, and most cap pilots spend far more time out of those ships than they do in them. so the intel that you get from them is practically worthless. and as far as trying to catch a capital ship that may have logged in space goes, well if you are in a position to do that, then you really don’t need the watch list. This makes little difference to the situation now with Keepstars enabling people to use different ships, the reason for removing the watch list has actually gone and I mentioned this in another thread. That being said the watch list as it was way too powerful and needed reducing, you have to define what you mean by a limited watch list. And he said this: > [@Bjorn\_Tyrson](#): > > personally, i’m all in favor of them getting rid of local entirely, if they also get rid of all the other free intel you can get from the game map and dotlan, and while we’re at it, give me the ability to turn off all gates into the system at will, lets REALLY make it like WH space. would make life a hell of a lot safer for me. Which makes this: > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Inversly, as proof of nonsense, do you think instituting Delayed Local, no Asset Safety, no Insurance and limited Watchlist in HS would make HS safer? > > Of course not. > > Wake up! Rather unfair and uncalled for as players make their safety in nullsec by their actions. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 1:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/514 "2018-08-30T13:05:20Z")
Agreed. There’s been a lot of “Well its easy for me. so you suck” (And yes especially from me) but in all honesty I agree with this. I couldnt get in on/wasn’t allowed to get in on S-NS. so I went WH for a long while. I guess I forgot about the ages of trial and error it took me to get to the point where WHs are less risky for me than HS. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 1:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/515 "2018-08-30T13:14:12Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > There’s been a lot of “Well its easy for me. so you suck” (And yes especially from me) but in all honesty I agree with this. There is a lot of skewed perception obviously. What I miss the most in all of this are the social risks and rewards. It’s mostly talk about mechanics, but the big elephant in the room hardly gets touched. Being a large group of aggressive, territorial and dominant players has obviously its rewards. The risk is that not everyone likes being a part of such a group or just isn’t being accepted into one. ---
**Author:** ![Yiole\_Gionglao](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yiole_gionglao/32/374866_2.png) [@Yiole\_Gionglao](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yiole_Gionglao)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 1:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/516 "2018-08-30T13:15:30Z")
By the way, whatever CCP did with NS, it wouldn’t sort the deadly bleeding wound that’s highsec. The heart can’t live without the stomach, and there’s a seriously bad situation going on with EVE’s stomach. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 1:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/517 "2018-08-30T13:22:12Z")
This thread is rapidly boiling down to “dont make Player NS less safe/secure”. I think that is the real problem, and one this thread strongly indicates exactly to be so, by the evidenced resistance to that being the penultimate problem, with CCP nerfing Player NS security/safety as the ultimate solution, if they have the balls to make EVE great again based on PvP, as is its greatest strength and niche in the market. Nullbears ofc want more safety/security, but is that good for the game, or just their own wallet. ---
**Author:** ![Bjorn\_Tyrson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bjorn_tyrson/32/371958_2.png) [@Bjorn\_Tyrson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bjorn_Tyrson)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 1:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/518 "2018-08-30T13:27:33Z")
thats only your perception, no one has said that null sec shouldn’t be made more dangerous, believe it or not. most of us who live here are completely on board with that. what we are saying is that the plans you have suggested (and that so so many other people have suggested before you) will not work the way you want them too ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Engraver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dark_engraver/32/45178_2.png) [@Dark\_Engraver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dark_Engraver)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 1:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/519 "2018-08-30T13:28:31Z")
Keep trying @CCP_Falcon it’s probably time to close this pile of junk of a thread ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 1:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/520 "2018-08-30T13:29:39Z")
> [@Bjorn\_Tyrson](#): > > thats only your perception, no one has said that null sec shouldn’t be made more dangerous, believe it or not. most of us who live here are completely on board with that. > what we are saying is that the plans you have suggested (and that so so many other people have suggested before you) will not work the way you want them too Explain how Delayed Local, no Asset Safety, no Insurance and limited Watchlist will not make Player NS riskier than now. Then explain what else would. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Engraver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dark_engraver/32/45178_2.png) [@Dark\_Engraver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dark_Engraver)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 1:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/521 "2018-08-30T13:30:34Z")
You keep banging this same drum for quite alot of pages now to troll and this is a constant with you. If the subject shifts a bit can’t possible let it go ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 1:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/522 "2018-08-30T13:32:02Z")
> [@Dark\_Engraver](#): > > You keep banging this same drum for quite alot of pages now to troll and this is a constant with you You are trolling to get a rise out of me, without engaging topic or rebuttals. Lurk more and come back when you have relevant contribution. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Engraver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dark_engraver/32/45178_2.png) [@Dark\_Engraver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dark_Engraver)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 1:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/523 "2018-08-30T13:33:51Z")
I already told you your ideas are bad there’s plenty of knowledgeable players as far as nullsec on CSM and will always be if they and CCP chose something needs changing it’ll be done. As a player who has nothing to do with nullsec your overly entitled ‘‘fixes’’ are not welcomed ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 1:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/524 "2018-08-30T13:35:26Z")
> [@Dark\_Engraver](#): > > I already told you your ideas are bad That means nothing. Try harder. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2018, 1:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907/525 "2018-08-30T13:35:56Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Explain how Delayed Local, no Asset Safety, no Insurance and limited Watchlist will not make Player NS riskier than now. > > Then explain what else would. I get that you want to steer the discussion into a variety of directions, but your “carrot” is just a wild mix of ideas that make no sense other than to be bait. It’s like you’re swinging a piece of turd around, pretend it’s a carrot, and then keep insisting someone shall bite. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907.md?page=25) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-screws-everyone-but-big-nullsec-cartels/99907.md?page=27)