# CCP Totally Failed it's Hsec players **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [January 30, 2024, 5:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970 "2024-01-30T17:58:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Sarah\_Olson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sarah_olson/32/377582_2.png) [@Sarah\_Olson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sarah_Olson)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2024, 12:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/345 "2024-02-10T12:39:17Z")
Can’t believe I’m agreeing with [Wesfahrn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wesfahrn) but that is too much, eww. ---
**Author:** ![Roackof12](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/roackof12/32/410542_2.png) [@Roackof12](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Roackof12)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2024, 3:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/346 "2024-02-10T15:18:51Z")
Well we agre going to disagree. As you point out - most of the information is going to come from the victor - but then at the same time you note that the victor has no responsibility (correctly) to be a mentor. That is just BAD game design. Information to allow for learning should come from the GAME - an open rule set, feedback, logs, visuals, opportunity to capture an overview for review, etc. etc. etc. Table top and board and computer games have all learned this over the years. But this game really hasn.t Again, as simple way would be to provide “gating”. The easiest, in my mind, is to create deadspace pockets that are gated by character skill points, ship classes and tiers of modules. There is a bit of that in FW but (again fairly unethical business practices) is having a significant jump from tier 1 to tier 2 hulls/fits and allowing both in FW plexes. This new system would have a greater chance (not entirely but close) to doing 2 key things. One, it would increase the chances (not to 100% but increase them) that players of relatively the same “eve age” would find themselve in conflct. That allows two nobs to go around and do stupid things but likely learn. It probably also increase social interaction and additional “virtual friendships” but that is Off topic. Second, it would increase the chances of going up agains the same or very similar ship. Many table top gamers will agree with the idea that you learn the most watching a great player operate YOUR faction/army much more than an army that has significantly different abilities/tactics/srategems. Still learning but not a much as watching how they apply the tools you have more effectively. We will agree that eve has a steep learning curve. But there are simple game design principals CPP ignores which would make it faster/more pleasant for people to climb that ramp _without_ impacting the enjoyment more experienced players get. ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2024, 4:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/347 "2024-02-10T16:26:33Z")
You do like writing essays , don’t you. The solution is simple - join an org with amazing people like @Zaera_Keena . ---
**Author:** ![Wes\_Wyhunnan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wes_wyhunnan/32/409400_2.png) [@Wes\_Wyhunnan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wes_Wyhunnan)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2024, 5:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/348 "2024-02-10T17:08:34Z")
> [@Zaera\_Keena](#): > > I’m all ears Can you please be more creepy? ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2024, 5:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/349 "2024-02-10T17:19:19Z")
That was actually a great movie! 😨 ---
**Author:** ![Power\_Armor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/power_armor/32/413178_2.png) [@Power\_Armor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Power_Armor)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2024, 5:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/350 "2024-02-10T17:21:27Z")
Why would you need gated stuff when people refuse to do their homework? The thing that “gankers takeover any system they want” is just completely wrong. Tell me how many highsec system are there if you can count them all. If i get killed in one system doing one activity, then i need to learn where it was, how it was and why it was. Then i can adapt to maybe go somewhere else, fit something else, watch local better and tag corporations and alliances, do something else, do it differently and what not… ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2024, 5:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/351 "2024-02-10T17:30:32Z")
> [@Roackof12](#): > > there is VERY little to be learned So you are a know it all? ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2024, 5:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/352 "2024-02-10T17:33:45Z")
> [@Roackof12](#): > > That allows two nobs to go around and do stupid things but likely learn. Like Ganking their first Ventures? Could those Capsuleers ie; > _nobs_ Do those sort of; > stupid things Also include jumping around in search of much harder gated content? > [@Roackof12](#): > > Again, as simple way would be to provide “gating”. The easiest, in my mind, is to create deadspace pockets that are gated by character skill points, ship classes and tiers of modules. There is already gated content within New Eden that requires fleeting with others and skill set would be a part of being accepted by other Capsuleers. Personally I feel that having too much gated content makes Eve Online start to feel more like some RPG with Pilot Progression and having a Capsuleer feel left behind out of fleet is what happens to me. ---
**Author:** ![Roackof12](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/roackof12/32/410542_2.png) [@Roackof12](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Roackof12)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2024, 11:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/353 "2024-02-10T23:46:33Z")
LOL. I am sure. But again, that shouldn’t be what is required. A good game design would say 1. It is a game with a steep learning curve. We like that. 2. How can we construct aspects of the game which facilitate in game learning? 3. Don’t worry and carry on What it shouldn’t do is rely upon “the community” to facilitate #2. That works, but is hit and miss. ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2024, 11:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/354 "2024-02-10T23:54:45Z")
> [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](#): > > Like Ganking their first Ventures? The best place to do this is in low sec. You find a venture, and hold it for newbie. Newbie then plays with and tortures venture before killing it. You now have an evil little newbie at your disposal. ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/e/b/9/eb9674bd7562b3c3e1b10d820df39f990bbc7648.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Githany\_Red](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/githany_red/32/378551_2.png) [@Githany\_Red](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Githany_Red)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2024, 3:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/355 "2024-02-11T03:57:22Z")
> [@Zaera\_Keena](#): > > The solution is simple - join an org with amazing people like @Zaera_Keena . I have to agree, in the last large war the imperium won a major battle down to the actions of a two-week old player, I can’t remember what he actually did but it shows every action counts in eve. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2024, 5:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/356 "2024-02-11T05:08:57Z")
Are you just making things up now? ---
**Author:** ![Mephiztopheleze](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mephiztopheleze/32/381036_2.png) [@Mephiztopheleze](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mephiztopheleze)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2024, 6:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/357 "2024-02-11T06:07:31Z")
> [@Roackof12](#): > > But this misreads (intentially?) my point. It is FINE that there are bigger fish. Again, that doesn’t matter. It is that there is VERY little to be learned (which include looking at the blog) from a fight that is over in 5 seconds. Lets say that 80% of encounters are that way. Worse is that 80% of them are variations on a that theme - from getting wacked by a tier 3 to 12 ship multi-boxer to an 8 shiip roam. there are lessons with _every_ loss, if you care to learn them. Even a 5s blap has lessons you can learn from. What did you do that allowed them to catch you being the main one. Get dropped by an eight man gang? One lesson is to mash your D-Scan more. > [@Roackof12](#): > > Long thread but I would offer that it isn’t PvP or gankers. It is that the game doesn’t have (can it?) a good mechanism to let people ramp up their pvp skills. It doesn’t have means to segregate players on skills, SP, (and the closely related aspect of fits). And so you have tier 3 ships blasting tier 1s. It isn’t clear what the fun of htat it but, far more important, is that it provides limited (no?) opportunities for the tier 1s to learn. EVE isn’t a lobby style FPS. It’s a free for all sandbox. Yes, your little T1 frigate can get dropped on by a Nyx. That’s EVE. There’s plenty of opportunities to learn in a T1. For myself, I’m always happy for a newbro in a Maulus to come along on a roam. Much of Faction Warfare can be profitably and enjoyably done with a T1 frigate. The trick for the newbros to learn is, like so much else in EVE, all about finding a good group of friends who can help and teach you. While I have no love for the major null blocs, their feeder corporations do a pretty good job of teaching folk how to play. EVE Uni has a long and proud history of mentoring newbros. Some of the faction warfare corps are very welcoming of newbros. One newbro in a Maulus can make a huge difference in a fight. Gal Frigate I, Sensor Linking I and you’re effective and useful. Learning how to fly that maulus, how to position and how to stay alive are lessons that will apply to every ship you ever get in. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2024, 7:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/358 "2024-02-11T07:36:10Z")
> [@Roackof12](#): > > Well we agre going to disagree That’s fine by me — I’m relatively happy with the status quo, and even if you get your „gated“ or „instanced“ ideas implemented then myself and many others will be very happy to run Smurf accounts with young „eve age“ to test our mettle, and actual rookies will have 0% chance in there. Your idea — which is not new and still just as bad every time someone suggests it — not only destroys the sandbox but doesn’t solve the problem either. Rookies will still simply quit — if they hate loss and weren’t motivated to learn out in the sandbox and ask their attacker, the sticking them in an arena where they’ll get instagibbed won’t change their attitude. ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2024, 7:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/359 "2024-02-11T07:45:17Z")
> [@Githany\_Red](#): > > won a major battle down to the actions of a two-week old player, You do smoke some good stuff @Githany_Red ---
**Author:** ![Githany\_Red](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/githany_red/32/378551_2.png) [@Githany\_Red](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Githany_Red)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2024, 8:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/360 "2024-02-11T08:00:37Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > Are you just making things up now? You know I never do that , it was on the meta show at the time . ---
**Author:** ![Wes\_Wyhunnan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wes_wyhunnan/32/409400_2.png) [@Wes\_Wyhunnan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wes_Wyhunnan)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2024, 8:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/361 "2024-02-11T08:27:48Z")
I think what you’re referring to was at M2-XFE. A fairly new player got off a last second shot on a cyno jammer to force it to repair, allowing super capital re-enforcements which led to the largest battle in eve history and basically decided the war. It’s a pretty big part of Goon legend at this point so yeah, you aren’t wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Githany\_Red](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/githany_red/32/378551_2.png) [@Githany\_Red](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Githany_Red)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2024, 11:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/362 "2024-02-11T11:04:18Z")
Thank you , just shows what can be done ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2024, 11:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/363 "2024-02-11T11:06:17Z")
Thanks for your advice, so today I visited lowsec and found some Gneiss 😁👍🏻⛏ ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2024, 12:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/364 "2024-02-11T12:42:28Z")
> [@Roackof12](#): > > Again, as simple way would be to provide “gating”. You don’t make people feel they are getting somewhere by making things easier. The secret to greater noob survival in Eve is not necessarily to have people do more or learn more…but make them _feel_ they have done that. Eve needs to encourage more of a mindset that every little thing is an achievement…_.rather_ than the current ’ I’m an elite solo PvP killer and your 50,000 padded kills are worthless ’ mentality. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970.md?page=17) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970.md?page=19)