# CCP Totally Failed it's Hsec players **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [January 30, 2024, 5:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970 "2024-01-30T17:58:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![Wes\_Wyhunnan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wes_wyhunnan/32/409400_2.png) [@Wes\_Wyhunnan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wes_Wyhunnan)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2024, 2:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/603 "2024-03-01T14:14:24Z")
> [@Yuzima](#): > > combat. The PvE is more interesting than the PvP, and more viable as playthrough. Have you considered that this is related to your belief that you would immediately lose any PvP engagement? You do know that every single person in this game was absolutely terrible at PvP for a long time when they started? Almost all of us are STILL absolutely terrible at it. It’s ok to be terrible at it. You are cutting yourself off from an absolutely enormous part of the game. I mean, I’ve heard EVE PVE described a lot of ways, but “interesting” is not one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Yuzima](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yuzima/32/416395_2.png) [@Yuzima](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yuzima)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2024, 2:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/604 "2024-03-01T14:32:07Z")
> [@Wes\_Wyhunnan](#): > > Have you considered that this is related to your belief that you would immediately lose any PvP engagement? Yes. Except it isn’t a belief, it’s a fact. > [@Wes\_Wyhunnan](#): > > You do know that every single person in this game was absolutely terrible at PvP for a long time when they started? I don’t _know_ that. I can only assume it. > [@Wes\_Wyhunnan](#): > > Almost all of us are STILL absolutely terrible at it That’s an exaggeration designed to prompt me to reconsider my position. It isn’t what I see when I look at zKillboard, I see plenty of characters with **thousands** of kills. I understand I’m the small fish in the ocean and just a matter of time until my Venture and everything I mined for 2 hours be blown to smithereens, which I have no problem with since it’s a PvP game. I’m only being realistic, being real. > [@Wes\_Wyhunnan](#): > > It’s ok to be terrible at it I have no problem being terrible at ship-to-ship PvP, I didn’t start this game thinking I was going to be an important cog in some huge machine. I’m barely a washer and I’m fine with that. > [@Wes\_Wyhunnan](#): > > You are cutting yourself off from an absolutely enormous part of the game. It’s okay, I’d rather snipe, scout or be on point than take the hill and plant the flag. > [@Wes\_Wyhunnan](#): > > I’ve heard EVE PVE described a lot of ways, but “interesting” is not one of them There’s a first for everything. So now you have. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2024, 2:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/605 "2024-03-01T14:38:08Z")
You’re missing the point. We can remove industry, the market, and even large portions of PvE content, and replace all of that with some kind of rudimentary automatic resource point injection and/or ability to earn further points through in-game actions. The core of the game, i.e. the world-building/political component, would largely remain intact as the primary driver for spurring player activity. On the other hand, if we were to remove the world-building/political component and leave the industrial component intact, the game would collapse because it would take the average player only a few weeks to complete the industrial end-game achievements in the absence of economic drivers for player output. I see this happen all the time in survival-themed games with PvE servers, where players quickly max out on resources and have nothing to play for. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2024, 2:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/606 "2024-03-01T14:42:48Z")
> [@Vuhdo\_Rin](#): > > if nobody loses ships your proffession as miner and industrialist is worthles ! Indeed…its crazy how some simply don’t grasp that destruction is what keeps the entire Eve economy going. The ONLY reason for mining more gas/ore and making new stuff is that existing ships and modules have been destroyed. If nothing ever got destroyed then stocks of ships and modules would just pile up and become worthless. So the very thing that gives VALUE to the market is destruction. ---
**Author:** ![Yuzima](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yuzima/32/416395_2.png) [@Yuzima](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yuzima)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2024, 2:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/607 "2024-03-01T14:47:34Z")
I agree with you. I’m saying EvE needs **both** sides of that equation, not because one wouldn’t work without the other but because one is la raison d’être of the other. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2024, 2:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/608 "2024-03-01T14:49:38Z")
> [@Yuzima](#): > > The PvE is more interesting than the PvP, and more viable as playthrough. You’re kidding. I avoid PvE like the plague as it is soooo boring and predictable. I mean, like, on the way home from a PvP mission last night my fleet stopped to do some insurgency stuff…and the NPC ships just sat there like stuffed dummies and got blapped. New ones would then appear, until the cycle was over. _It was a turkey shoot._ The same number of player piloted ships would _not_ have been such a walkover. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2024, 2:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/609 "2024-03-01T14:55:24Z")
Well I’m not saying that PvE/industry needs to be removed, but you specifically said that without mining there would be no EVE, and that’s simply not true, if we accept the caveat that the game would need to be changed slightly in order to accommodate players getting their gear in some other manner. ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2024, 2:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/610 "2024-03-01T14:56:42Z")
> [@Wes\_Wyhunnan](#): > > You do know that every single person in this game was absolutely terrible at PvP for a long time when they started? Rubbish ---
**Author:** ![Wes\_Wyhunnan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wes_wyhunnan/32/409400_2.png) [@Wes\_Wyhunnan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wes_Wyhunnan)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2024, 3:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/611 "2024-03-01T15:01:41Z")
> [@Zaera\_Keena](#): > > Rubbish Well when you find the guy who was amazing at something he had never done before let me know because that’s a first for humanity. ---
**Author:** ![Yuzima](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yuzima/32/416395_2.png) [@Yuzima](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yuzima)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2024, 3:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/612 "2024-03-01T15:06:21Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > You’re kidding I am not. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > I avoid PvE like the plague as it is soooo boring and predictable. That’s because you’re not predisposed to it. You see everything in the game as _gain_ whereas I and many others see things differently. I don’t play to _gain_, I play to be entertained. PvE is interactive, it tells a story, it’s a step beyond a movie where the _audience_ becomes protagonist or antagonist as their choices dictate. It’s an adventure that some want to experience without necessarily wanting to **get rich** or **famous** , **glory** **conquest** isn’t a must for a good story, one that a player may want to participate in a few hours a day like a TV series. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > I mean, like, on the way home from a PvP mission last night my fleet stopped to do some insurgency stuff…and the NPC ships just sat there like stuffed dummies and got blapped. New ones would then appear, until the cycle was over. _It was a turkey shoot_ Blame the devs, it’s their game. But most time I enjoy playing versus the environment. Even the agent **stories** are engaging and often funny. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > The same number of player piloted ships would _not_ have been such a walkover. You want battles to destroy player ships and pound your chest in a long loud war cry **I’M HEEEEEERE!!!** That’s the story you decided to engage in and Mars protect whoever gets in your way. It’s good. I love 300. I’m more involved in discovering New Eden and admiring the fantastic world that was created. To each his own. ---
**Author:** ![Wes\_Wyhunnan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wes_wyhunnan/32/409400_2.png) [@Wes\_Wyhunnan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wes_Wyhunnan)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2024, 3:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/613 "2024-03-01T15:06:50Z")
> [@Yuzima](#): > > hat’s an exaggeration designed to prompt me to reconsider my position. It isn’t what I see when I look at zKillboard, I see plenty of characters with **thousands** of kills Yeah but see that’s not good at PvP. I have thousands of kills, and a trillion isk destroyed. That wasn’t me, that was nullsec fleets telling me what to shoot and structure bashes. I’m still terrible at PvP. You can’t assume any sort of skill based on zkill at all. If you don’t want to do PvP at all that’s fine, it’s your money and your game. Just don’t cut yourself off from it soley because you think other people have some sort of unobtainable skill. There are are some few people who ARE absolutely amazing, but the vast vast majority of the rest of us are still blundering around and getting the shakes and occasionally forgetting to launch our drones. One of the best players I’ve ever seen was a streamer named BjornBee who now works for CCP. YouTube the BjornBee AFK Ishtar incident and you will see what even the top pvpers go through in this game. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2024, 3:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/614 "2024-03-01T15:10:54Z")
> [@Yuzima](#): > > I’m more involved in discovering New Eden and admiring the fantastic world that was created. > To each his own. That’s perfectly alright, but you should plan for the eventuality that you’ll run out of content in 1-2 years (depending on how much you play). Then the game _will_ have to become about purely grinding for more wealth, unless you find another reason to play, or decide to quit. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2024, 3:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/615 "2024-03-01T15:19:41Z")
> [@Yuzima](#): > > That’s because you’re not predisposed to it. You see everything in the game as _gain_ whereas I and many others see things differently. I don’t play to _gain_, I play to be entertained. PvE is interactive, it tells a story, it’s a step beyond a movie where the _audience_ becomes protagonist or antagonist as their choices dictate. It’s an adventure that some want to experience without necessarily wanting to **get rich** or **famous** , **glory** **conquest** isn’t a must for a good story, one that a player may want to participate in a few hours a day like a TV series. Yada yada yada…at which point I simply ask myself, WHY would I want to pay $15 a month for this NPC ‘entertainment’ when I could just make a one off purchase of Homeworld. I cannot comprehend the twisted psychology of logging into a MMORPG to play what is effectively a single player game against NPCs. ---
**Author:** ![Yuzima](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yuzima/32/416395_2.png) [@Yuzima](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yuzima)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2024, 3:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/616 "2024-03-01T15:20:39Z")
> [@Wes\_Wyhunnan](#): > > If you don’t want to do PvP at all that’s fine, it’s your money and your game. Just don’t cut yourself off from it soley because you think other people have some sort of unobtainable skill. I understand you, I’m just not interested in PvP in general. I played World of Warships for a few years and only participated in PvP _once_. I only played co-op on that. Video game competition has never interested me. I play video games for the stories, graphics… EvE world is very deep good sci-fi. I prefer to compete in real, that’s where I collect salt. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > but you should plan for the eventuality that you’ll run out of content in 1-2 years (depending on how much you play) I never plan ahead. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Then the game _will_ have to become about purely grinding for more wealth, unless you find another reason to play, or decide to quit I can always talk myself into doing something fun. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Yada yada yada You’re absolutely right ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2024, 3:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/617 "2024-03-01T15:33:21Z")
> [@Yuzima](#): > > You want battles to destroy player ships and pound your chest in a long loud war cry **I’M HEEEEEERE!!!** I simply don’t see the point in playing any game where there’s no sense of having ‘done better’ than anyone else. That doing better may be individually, or it may be collectively, but without it…what conceivable reason is there for even logging in ? Why spend hours and days waiting on skill queues if not to be ‘better’, and why be better if not to be ‘better than’ someone else ? Following someone else’s artificial storyline may keep you occupied for a bit…but the only long term contentment is creating your own. ---
**Author:** ![Yuzima](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yuzima/32/416395_2.png) [@Yuzima](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yuzima)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2024, 3:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/618 "2024-03-01T15:38:21Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > **I simply don’t see the point** in playing any game where there’s no sense of having ‘done better’ than anyone else That’s what I said > [@Yuzima](#): > > you’re not predisposed to it You don’t see the point. I, and many others do. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > what conceivable reason is there for even logging in ? I explained the reasons but you went: > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Yada yada yada So I am assuming that you are biologically incapable of comprehending the concepts I laid oud in that post. It’s okay. No blame here. Some people only understand punches. All I’m saying is: I’d rather punch jerks in real than in a video game. ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2024, 3:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/619 "2024-03-01T15:38:32Z")
Oh that’s easy ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/3/0/4/30435963f85459857fbce026d3f7b6376aba8fd9.jpeg) ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/a/8/a/a8a21c2db4f7a10f748cede89411b9d58f12fd69.webp) ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/7/b/7/7b7681e5a7c090dec8fc3ee8984f2a4d6e433551.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2024, 3:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/620 "2024-03-01T15:42:25Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > I simply don’t see the point in playing any game where there’s no sense of having ‘done better’ than anyone else. Most games and most game players aren’t competitive in nature. That’s not really the issue here. The issue is that EVE fundamentally doesn’t support non-competitive play in any sustainable manner. It wasn’t meant for such players, and CCP’s efforts to apply to band-aid solutions to be able to dip from both demographics are making the game less fulfilling for _everyone._ > [@Yuzima](#): > > All I’m saying is: I’d rather punch jerks in real than in a video game. Whoa, easy there, pardner. ---
**Author:** ![Yuzima](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yuzima/32/416395_2.png) [@Yuzima](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yuzima)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2024, 3:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/621 "2024-03-01T15:45:09Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Whoa, easy there, pardner What?? Earlier I said I’d rather compete in real life, that’s where I collect my salt. I was a boxer, did it for years. Now I train boxers. That’s why I wrote that. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2024, 3:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/622 "2024-03-01T15:46:27Z")
So boxers are jerks? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970.md?page=29) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970.md?page=31)