# CCP Totally Failed it's Hsec players **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [January 30, 2024, 5:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970 "2024-01-30T17:58:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 39
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2024, 10:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/787 "2024-03-11T22:59:18Z")
That’s how it is like 98% of the time. We People would roll a few alts, then sit on them for a few years while occasionally feeding dumb losses to their kill boards. Then use them on the forums to ship-toast about griefing etc., and then CCP would nerf ganking or wars or piracy like two patches later. It’s a tradition that goes back like 15 years. The players who are _actually_ getting “griefed” don’t come here to post about it. They simply log off and then don’t log in again. At _best_ they’ll go and complain on Reddit, if they already have an account there. I mean, most of those people don’t even know what happened anyway, just that their ship went poof. Many of them don’t even understand that they’ve been killed by another player. I’ve posted this before, but when I used to do lots of wars against non-null-sec entities in the earlier years, many of my targets didn’t even think I was a player, but an NPC. I had chats with them and _literally_ had to convince them I was an actual human behind a keyboard and not an AOL-style chat bot. A lot of them didn’t even understand they downloaded a multiplayer game. ---
**Author:** ![Wachutu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wachutu/32/410262_2.png) [@Wachutu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wachutu)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2024, 11:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/788 "2024-03-11T23:01:55Z")
You mean goons? ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2024, 11:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/789 "2024-03-11T23:03:39Z")
I don’t know, man. You got stairs in your house? ---
**Author:** ![Shadmor\_Fatbutt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shadmor_fatbutt/32/413636_2.png) [@Shadmor\_Fatbutt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shadmor_Fatbutt)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2024, 11:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/790 "2024-03-11T23:09:30Z")
Just wanted to say how awesome this writing was. I’m guessing it was in response to OP, not me, but there are many similarities between OP’s qualms and my own, so I look at it a bit as a response to me. > [@James\_Jesse\_Katelo](#): > > They rationalize their actions as a crusade against a perceived evasion of risk, an attempt to purify the game by targeting what they see as its less daring participants. I thought, until very recently, that this was true, and one could understand why. Many of the people who gank mining vessels directly express dislike of miners and mining in-game. Some of their in-game bios express disdain for “the miner”, and build it into their roleplay. Your point about them having a crusade against those who evade risk seems to get even closer to reality - as it isn’t simply any old corporation that the referenced gankers are targeting, it is specifically players who do not wish to engage with them. Players who have CHOSEN high-sec life - a lower risk life - for less reward - their choice. But as another reply pointed out, I just don’t think that really applies most of the time. I really do think they just like shooting ships. Sometimes this requires skill and coordination to take down a mack before the fleet warps away…sometimes it takes no effort as they take out a venture and lose a catalyst. But sometimes a campaign is so involved, spanning 3 systems, involving multiboxing with combination of bumping and ganking, so persistent, where lookouts and corporate spies are present 24/7 for weeks on end, so expressly inflammatory - “Our MOONS” “Where are your Permits, Miner”, and unprovoked (because miners did not ask for any conflict - did not threaten the existence of the gankers or their corps), that it is EASY to assume some deep grudge and go diving down that rabbit hole, when perhaps, players who gank just like playing the game their way. Doesn’t make all actions taken in the name of that campaign respectful or pro-social behavior, or good for the game, or in full compliance with ToS. And a flaw in my own argument above is that when I try to defend my playstyle and express concerns about the balance between ganking gamplay and highsec mining gameplay, what is the most common “insult?” “Miner.” The people literally systematically preventing players from engaging in their chosen form of play (not occasionally causing a bad loss for someone) respond to concerns of their victims by “insulting” them with “Miner”, the reason they were targeted to be their victims in the first place. So maybe they just love exploding things, but maybe they _particularly_ like exploding things that prefer fewer explosions in their gaming experience. And as beautiful as your last paragraph is about leaving the game - and man was it beautiful - I think the problems OP and I are talking about regarding our gaming experiences in hisec can be fixed. Not without sacrifices (probably my own and those of players who like ganking miners), but call me optimistic. ---
**Author:** ![Wachutu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wachutu/32/410262_2.png) [@Wachutu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wachutu)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2024, 11:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/791 "2024-03-11T23:18:35Z")
They just show that safety is just an illusion in EVE and they prevent it from falling players to it. ---
**Author:** ![Shadmor\_Fatbutt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shadmor_fatbutt/32/413636_2.png) [@Shadmor\_Fatbutt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shadmor_Fatbutt)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2024, 11:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/792 "2024-03-11T23:21:49Z")
> [@Mary\_Forcades](#): > > I’m legitimately wondering what number of a post related to high-sov ganking this is… Must surpass thousand probably even tens of thousands. > > @Shadmor_Fatbutt you really don’t realize how pointless all of this is do you? > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > You realize it’s just a false-flag forum ship-toasting alt, right? > [@Mary\_Forcades](#): > > You know what. Just for the sake of it now when we have your in-game name i’m going to ask the nearest locator agent where you’re flying and coming to gank you. > [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > He’s in Yria and Oisio and Kulelen and thereabouts These are your statements and your actions. If you lose forum privileges or game privileges, you will only have yourselves to blame. You can continue to enjoy playing the game, engage me with actual arguements, or you can spend your time verbally attacking me here, follow through on your in-game stalking threat for my comments on this forum, and continue harassing me because I have a different opinion than you. ---
**Author:** ![Mary\_Forcades](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mary_forcades/32/472756_2.png) [@Mary\_Forcades](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mary_Forcades)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2024, 11:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/793 "2024-03-11T23:25:26Z")
What i kind of was going after is that where does these high-sov ganking posts come from… I mean the noise vs signal ratio is just ■■■■■■. In my opinion CCP should consider these as spam because at a basic level they’re all the exact same things over and over and over and over again. It never ends. Miners asking questions and speculating the same things that we’ve had went through thousands of times. How about using the search function and read through all the old posts before posting yet another one. ---
**Author:** ![Shadmor\_Fatbutt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shadmor_fatbutt/32/413636_2.png) [@Shadmor\_Fatbutt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shadmor_Fatbutt)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2024, 11:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/794 "2024-03-11T23:28:46Z")
You are not the only person who plays this game, and I’m playing it today, not 3 years ago - what others said may definitely be important, but if the problem i’m experiencing (and obviously OP and many others) is a problem for us NOW, I’m going to speak up. You are not obligated to respond. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2024, 11:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/795 "2024-03-11T23:32:20Z")
> [@Mary\_Forcades](#): > > Miners asking questions and speculating the same things that we’ve had went through thousands of times. How about using the search function and read through all the old posts before posting yet another one. The market incidence rate for people doing research to troubleshoot their problems is extremely low, something like 3%. Those customers fall into the power-user category. The incidence rate for _voicing_ dissatisfaction (when actually dissatisfied) is higher, like 10-20%. But those people _usually_ aren’t going to be found in places like obscure forums. Steam reviews, YouTube video comments. and Reddit posts is where you can look for actual people sharing their viewpoints on EVE. The ones _here_ are nearly always trolling alts. ---
**Author:** ![Mary\_Forcades](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mary_forcades/32/472756_2.png) [@Mary\_Forcades](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mary_Forcades)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2024, 11:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/796 "2024-03-11T23:33:54Z")
Miners is more of a term used as a joke it has nothing to do with actually mining. Player station spinning his/her playtime is a miner. Industrialist that doesn’t do mining is a miner. Nullbear is a miner as is whbear too. Exploration player is a miner. All the same. Yes. Shooting ships is fun. But it all doesn’t come down to just one thing. I’m proud of you that atleast you acknowledge the fact that ganking can be very skill intensive and actually even hard. Also the part where you talked about it kind of at the same time explains and proves that they’re just better at playing the game. I’ve yet to see a mining group that has their ■■■■ so well and cleverly organized that they could actually fight back. (Think about _multiplayer_ aspect of a _sandbox_ game) ---
**Author:** ![Shadmor\_Fatbutt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shadmor_fatbutt/32/413636_2.png) [@Shadmor\_Fatbutt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shadmor_Fatbutt)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2024, 11:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/797 "2024-03-11T23:42:31Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > The market incidence rate for people doing research to troubleshoot their problems is extremely low, something like 3%. Those customers fall into the power-user category. I respect when people do their research as well. It makes having intelligent discussion far easier and can be empowering for someone who is looking to solve a problem when there are good answers out there already. It is also okay to talk to eachother about problems sometimes, and though we may get frustrated with hearing what we perceive to be the same question, as long as the asker isn’t always looking for everyone else to do their work for them, a little generosity goes a long way. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > The incidence rate for _voicing_ dissatisfaction (when actually dissatisfied) is higher, like 10-20%. But those people _usually_ aren’t going to be found in places like obscure forums. Steam reviews, YouTube video comments. and Reddit posts is where you can look for actual people sharing their viewpoints on EVE. The ones _here_ are nearly always trolling alts. I’m not a trolling alt. I don’t want anyone’s response who doesn’t want to give it, and I’m not here to make people upset. This is the actual appropriate forum at this stage to address my concern, not youtube, not ingame (that failed), and not reddit. ---
**Author:** ![Mary\_Forcades](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mary_forcades/32/472756_2.png) [@Mary\_Forcades](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mary_Forcades)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2024, 11:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/798 "2024-03-11T23:44:07Z")
> The cost of 5-9 destroyers vs the cost of a miner they win + the loot they make off with. Seen in 1 post 79 gankers took down a transport load with loot for them. Look. For the looks of it i gathered you know the game. Played on off from 2009? And whatnot. But did you know: Say i buy 10 Thrashers. My security status is 0.0. One gank in 1.0 system lowers your security status approximately -0.20. So i can gank 10 times before CONCORD starts chasing me. One Thrasher with fit costs est. 10.000.000 ISK. Tags to repair security status range from 35.000.000 ISK to 45.000.000 ISK per. One tag repairs your security status by +0.50 So need 4 tags to repair your security status from -2.0 back to 0.0 Now do the math. Oh! And CCP has set the drop rate for items to 50% There are nuances to gankers loot because does the target have 3 expensive items or 50 different stacks of items worth different amounts of ISK. > Miners pay for their game time like anyone else and should not have someone else’s game play forced on them. Ruining the game play and costing them money. Gankers pay for their game time like anyone else and should not have someone else’s game play forced on them. Ruining the game play and costing them money WHICH is expensive as ■■■■ anyways. Usually you don’t make back your money aka gank with profit. ---
**Author:** ![Mary\_Forcades](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mary_forcades/32/472756_2.png) [@Mary\_Forcades](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mary_Forcades)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2024, 11:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/799 "2024-03-11T23:52:42Z")
> Seen in 1 post 79 gankers took down a transport load with loot for them. Are you referring to those huge 5-10 billion freighter kills? You have no idea what it takes to hunt those things. We’re talking about maybe weeks worth of scanning that’s just the finding a target part of it. Multiboxing or fleeting up doesn’t really, in many cases give you ISK value advantage; what i mean is that when you divide the loot from one of those with 15-20 people it’s in relation exactly the same as killing a Heron carrying 400.000.000 ISK with a 10.000.000 ISK Catalyst. Roughly that is. Also don’t undock what you can’t afford to lose. It’s the freighter pilots fault tbh. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2024, 11:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/800 "2024-03-11T23:54:57Z")
> [@Shadmor\_Fatbutt](#): > > I respect when people do their research as well. It apparently excludes the last 20 years of gameplay and its effects, because „only mechanics now count“, which seems an unnecessary restriction on ones perspective and a very easy way to come across as intellectually dismissive. ---
**Author:** ![Shadmor\_Fatbutt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shadmor_fatbutt/32/413636_2.png) [@Shadmor\_Fatbutt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shadmor_Fatbutt)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2024, 12:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/801 "2024-03-12T00:09:29Z")
> [@Io\_Koval](#): > > It apparently excludes the last 20 years of gameplay and its effects, because „only mechanics now count“, which seems an unnecessary restriction on ones perspective and a very easy way to come across as intellectually dismissive. One cannot and should not research the last 20 years of gameplay when they bring a current concern to a forum. It’s definitely worth discussing and examining the effects of past attempts to address this problem though. My comment about respecting people doing their research was just showing that I can identify with the poster’s comment about posting on a forum from a complete state of ignorance of a subject matter . I’m not claiming some fact to be true am I? I’m not offering advice on something I’m not qualified to advise on - its not like someone asked me what fit they should use on their thrasher to go up against an orca and I respond that they wiill probably be okay to solo it with a mining laser… I do respect yours or anyone else’s obvservations of past changes to the game and how they affected your gameplay - do you respect my current gameplay experience? ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2024, 12:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/802 "2024-03-12T00:10:22Z")
> [@Shadmor\_Fatbutt](#): > > If you lose forum privileges or game privileges You are a bit of a bully, aren’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Shadmor\_Fatbutt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shadmor_fatbutt/32/413636_2.png) [@Shadmor\_Fatbutt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shadmor_Fatbutt)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2024, 12:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/803 "2024-03-12T00:22:00Z")
> [@Zaera\_Keena](#): > > You are a bit of a bully, aren’t you? Do I seek to harm, i **ntimidate** , or **coerce** (someone perceived as **vulnerable** )? Not one bit. I was discussing how mining ships are **vulnerable** and are being systematically targeted by people whose favorite aspect of gameplay is killing mining ships and watching their pilots express anger at losing their investments. How the **coercion** of an entire regular mining fleet to leave multiple systems they peacefully mine might in the end be **harmful** gameplay (you may argue otherwise), how **systematic intimidation** of my fleet is affecting my personal gameplay, and then how I was **intimidated** here by being repeatedly personally attacked, my in-game information posted here, my concerns dismissed over and over, and name-called. ---
**Author:** ![Mary\_Forcades](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mary_forcades/32/472756_2.png) [@Mary\_Forcades](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mary_Forcades)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2024, 12:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/804 "2024-03-12T00:23:20Z")
Calm down miners ---
**Author:** ![Shadmor\_Fatbutt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shadmor_fatbutt/32/413636_2.png) [@Shadmor\_Fatbutt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shadmor_Fatbutt)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2024, 12:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/805 "2024-03-12T00:26:04Z")
Again, namecalling and dismissal. If you don’t want to be a part of the solution, you may leave - I would never want to force you to partake in an interaction to which you did not consent. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2024, 12:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/806 "2024-03-12T00:28:03Z")
> [@Shadmor\_Fatbutt](#): > > peacefully mine Mining is never peaceful. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970.md?page=38) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970.md?page=40)