# CCP Totally Failed it's Hsec players **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [January 30, 2024, 5:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970 "2024-01-30T17:58:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 41
**Author:** ![Shadmor\_Fatbutt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shadmor_fatbutt/32/413636_2.png) [@Shadmor\_Fatbutt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shadmor_Fatbutt)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2024, 1:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/827 "2024-03-12T01:27:25Z")
> [@Mary\_Forcades](#): > > Now see here. It’s totally up to the miner to be the prey and be killed. Or! They can add the predator as a contact so when the predator jumps in the solar system, the miner can take the approriate precautions and with the help of ships build in directional scanner and little practice be totally safe! 🙂 That works for occasional times that predators visit the solar system. Kind of a sucky way to live sometimes but it works, and thats what I’ had learned to successfully do. What OP (I think) and I are talking about are campaigns of persistent predator presence with alts whose only purpose are to see when mining ships start mining, notify gankers (or just their own alts), which come into system and prevent mining, or gank, have continuous messaging in either local or via hubs that miners must purchase permits to mine anywhere in the systems including the moons their corp has drills at, . the goal is to stop mining. to literally stop another player from engaging in one of the 4 career paths in three adjacent systems. If you think i’m exaggerating, talk to other certain folks harassing me earlier who I won’t mention by name. It is the definition of griefing, playing just to make another player upset, and it works. They don’t want peopel to buy permits - they want players to get angry, refuse, and then get attacked, then compalin more - they LOVE causing grief. ---
**Author:** ![Mary\_Forcades](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mary_forcades/32/472756_2.png) [@Mary\_Forcades](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mary_Forcades)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2024, 1:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/828 "2024-03-12T01:35:24Z")
> [@Shadmor\_Fatbutt](#): > > But lets for the sake of argument that I did want it 90 percent safer. And lets say that whatever game changes CCP made also made market and manufacturing enthusiasts upset. You’ve missed the point. In the example it wasn’t CCP directly making manufacturers and market players upset. It was the miners making them upset because their mining suddenly became so much easier. Don’t take this the wrong way but it seems like you’re quite not getting the facts that in Eve 1: One players doings don’t mean anything or affect anything in the grand scheme of things in Eve. 2: Market and manufacturing are pvp and miners are enemy as much as they can be friends. Your approach and opinions seem so self centered considering you’re playing a social engineering multiplayer pvp game. Is this considered harrasment?: I have a ship builder contact from whom i can buy ships cheap. Suddenly that guys production is disrupted because group of miners or manufacturers have started mining hes ore or building in hes region hence raising the system cost index hence affecting hes profits. He tells me to go and gank the people. If i do he’ll pay me for it and i can keep buying ships cheaper. Am i harrassing the miners or is it content creation in sandbox where players create the stories, content, everything really. ---
**Author:** ![Mary\_Forcades](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mary_forcades/32/472756_2.png) [@Mary\_Forcades](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mary_Forcades)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2024, 1:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/829 "2024-03-12T01:40:35Z")
Chat is only letters. Chat can be blocked. Ect. You know in Eve people do that. I’ve done it. And i know plenty of corporations and or players that pay for peopleto gank miners because it affects their production and profits. It’s all world building by players, events created, politics being played, deals made, business conducted. It’s **sanbox mmo gameplay** at all in it’s beaty. There are all this happening “behind tge scenes” when you just start “living” as capsuleer and jump out from the bubble that makes you seem to others as just npc in the belt kind of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Shadmor\_Fatbutt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shadmor_fatbutt/32/413636_2.png) [@Shadmor\_Fatbutt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shadmor_Fatbutt)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2024, 1:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/830 "2024-03-12T01:45:48Z")
wish i had the energy to reply to this one-again elegant post but i have to take a break. There seems to be some wisdom there, but also a little apologetics for a culture that has never exactly been welcome to people with my moral standard. Like any free society, values will change over time depending on what voices are amplified and what internal and external pressures select for. For me, the game’s essence isn’t the freedom to shoot another player - it is the freedom to explore and be successful in a new environment. My interpersonal moral values don’t stop when I click “sign in”. I do not personally role play but i’m on board with people doing that if that’s their thing. But even CCP explicitely states that roleplay is no excuse to engage in behavior contrary to the ToS. Some players want their New Eden to involve consent built into the competetive and cooperative experience in a way that it currently isn’t in my opinion. I also don’t think that many of those arguing against me roleplay within the designed universe of new Eden. Some do, sure, but others use the idea of “freedom” like any other online forum where people feel free to act hatefully because they’re protected by anonymity and distance. Add a perceived approval to take advantage of another player without their consent and ooooooooh boy do things get messy when someone starts talking about consent. For newer players like me who happen to be a vet from countless other games over the decades, the absence of consent in Eve is so glaring it makes me want to slap the monitor with incredulity. I don’t want eve to be exactly like other MMO’s I’ve played (otherwise i’d be playing them instead) but I do wish consent was a value celebrated by the community and the definition agreed upon. Welp I ended up typing forever anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Shadmor\_Fatbutt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shadmor_fatbutt/32/413636_2.png) [@Shadmor\_Fatbutt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shadmor_Fatbutt)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2024, 1:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/831 "2024-03-12T01:50:02Z")
I’ll try to respond to this later. I need to take a break good questions. some assumptions that aren’t true but some room for discussion ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2024, 1:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/832 "2024-03-12T01:54:57Z")
> [@Shadmor\_Fatbutt](#): > > I do wish consent was a value celebrated by the community How many times have you asked for consent when you did something that affects other players? ---
**Author:** ![James\_Jesse\_Katelo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/james_jesse_katelo/32/422183_2.png) [@James\_Jesse\_Katelo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/James_Jesse_Katelo)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2024, 1:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/833 "2024-03-12T01:57:23Z")
Although I think we disagree in our central thesis(and scale), I thank you for broadening my perspective. I think it will help me interact better with some of my corp mates. Fly safe, Shadmor. Maybe someday we can go blap those miner gankers, together. ---
**Author:** ![Mary\_Forcades](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mary_forcades/32/472756_2.png) [@Mary\_Forcades](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mary_Forcades)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2024, 2:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/834 "2024-03-12T02:09:37Z")
If it all comes down to language harrasment thing (Sorry for my english) then it’s ehh… You can’t save the world. Eve is or can be however you make it, a rought place. Bullying, harrasment, namecalling all of it happens in your neighbours home, in Eve, in Wow, in forums, in streets, in local game store, with friends, with family… Everywhere all the time. I’ve played from 2012-2013 and i absolutely hated the in-game public social side of Eve. I mean so bad it made me angry and what not. So i get that. There’s this ‘rule’ in Eve to never speak in local. I’ve haven’t played my local chat open in years. Helps alot. Also what comes to ganking and harrasment you have no idea how bad the ganked can be! It’s way worse than being called a miner, newbro. It’s personal go kill yourself level of stuff. Gankers never go that far what i’ve gathered. Anyways best thing to do is build relationships/contacts in-game and stay away from public/local chats. OH! And i had a point in this about the consent thing: If you simply didn’t have a chat function → A ganker is just a npc rat that tries to shoot you but with advanced ‘AI’ and higher difficulty level. Think it as a souls-like game. ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2024, 2:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/835 "2024-03-12T02:12:58Z")
> [@James\_Jesse\_Katelo](#): > > Maybe someday we can go blap those miner gankers ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/b/0/8/b08a7aa5734c71ca6d47c261462fa59ccc1a2af2.webp) ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2024, 2:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/836 "2024-03-12T02:14:20Z")
> [@Shadmor\_Fatbutt](#): > > Wow lots of likes for this comment - not sure why Because it is true. > [@Shadmor\_Fatbutt](#): > > Losing pieces in chess is not harrassment. Then neither is losing ships in a PvP shoot-em-up game. Sorry, but this isn’t Room 101, you are not going to convince me that 2 + 2 = 5, and your constant references to ‘harassment’ are simply a vain attempt to play some imagined victim card. If you don’t like Eve, play somethine else. It really is that simple. ---
**Author:** ![Zopiclone](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zopiclone/32/409433_2.png) [@Zopiclone](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zopiclone)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2024, 3:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/837 "2024-03-12T03:44:16Z")
Welcome to EvE Online. You consent to PvP and everything else under the stars and sun when you click Undock. Even when youre in station trading its full out WAR. Welcome to EvE Online. Where anything is possible with a little bit of grit and imagination. o7 ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2024, 4:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/838 "2024-03-12T04:25:52Z")
You forgot to add determination. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2024, 7:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/839 "2024-03-12T07:09:06Z")
> [@Shadmor\_Fatbutt](#): > > do you respect my current gameplay experience? Yes. I shoot people to make it entertaining for all involved. Do you respect my gameplay experience? ---
**Author:** ![Dchill](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dchill/32/408523_2.png) [@Dchill](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dchill)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2024, 8:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/840 "2024-03-12T08:18:37Z")
It seems no-one has been able to pinpoint the problem with gankings but its simple - It defeats the purpose of progressing, since it usually means more expensive modules and ships which is what gankers go after. If there is no point in progressing there is no point in playing the game for most people. - High sec having this kind of risks means little to noone ever get to a point where they feel comfortable exploring low or null where this sort of activitiy is actually supposed to happen So ganking is a death spiral to be frank. ---
**Author:** ![TheInternet\_TweepsOnline\_TheInternet](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/theinternet_tweepsonline_theinternet/32/414103_2.png) [@TheInternet\_TweepsOnline\_TheInternet](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/TheInternet_TweepsOnline_TheInternet)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2024, 8:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/841 "2024-03-12T08:35:32Z")
This is _quite_ the thread. > [@Shadmor\_Fatbutt](#): > > a campaign is so involved, spanning 3 systems, involving multiboxing with combination of bumping and ganking, so persistent, where lookouts and corporate spies are present 24/7 for weeks on end, so expressly inflammatory - “Our MOONS” “Where are your Permits, Miner”, and unprovoked (because miners did not ask for any conflict - did not threaten the existence of the gankers or their corps), that it is EASY to assume some deep grudge and go diving down that rabbit hole, when perhaps, players who gank just like playing the game their way. _ **OUR MOONS** _ Wow, horrifying stuff. THIS kind of thing posted in LOCAL? What has this game come to? > [@Shadmor\_Fatbutt](#): > > the **coercion** of an entire regular mining fleet to leave multiple systems These mining fleets are hardly regular - at least at this point. You’re free to try and change that. > [@Shadmor\_Fatbutt](#): > > What OP (I think) and I are talking about are campaigns of persistent predator presence with alts whose only purpose are to see when mining ships start mining, notify gankers (or just their own alts), which come into system and prevent mining, or gank, have continuous messaging in either local or via hubs that miners must purchase permits to mine anywhere in the systems including the moons their corp has drills at, . the goal is to stop mining. to literally stop another player from engaging in one of the 4 career paths in three adjacent systems. Individual players are free to move elsewhere, change corps, or pay for mining permits. You could also attempt to wait ‘persistent predator presence’ (lol) out. You have a number of options - you just happen to dislike even the most reasonable ones. You belong to the largest Highsec-focused corp in the game, and yet you post like a member of one of the smallest. Your posting here won’t change anything. I’d suggest you direct your uhh, _energies_ towards the goal of finding a better corporation. I have several suggestions. All you need to do is ask. I’d be happy to help. Welcome to EVE Online. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2024, 10:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/842 "2024-03-12T10:35:26Z")
> [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > In my heyday (circa 2013-2016) a lot of Highsec residents seemed to be Nullseccers mining on alts. Is that still the case? Must be, since the main source of trit is in hisec, plus easy ice. I know I have an alt there 😃 Just like most non-hisec’ers have Jita clones and alts. > [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > Even your Grandma can do it “_Granny! No ! Stay in the POS. STAY in the &^$#!! POS, I said. You still have the timer running!_” 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2024, 1:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/843 "2024-03-12T13:37:03Z")
> [@Dchill](#): > > High sec having this kind of risks means little to noone ever get to a point where they feel comfortable exploring low or null where this sort of activitiy is actually supposed to happen Well that’s odd…as only last night I was in a fleet of 90 in lowsec, every member of which started out the game in highsec. And two of my 6 main chars now _live_ in lowsec all the time. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2024, 1:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/844 "2024-03-12T13:52:29Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > I mean, most of those people don’t even know what happened anyway, just that their ship went poof. Many of them don’t even understand that they’ve been killed by another player. You’ve outdone yourself in nonsensical hyperbole and claims invented out of thin air. I mean…seriously…a player joins a PvP shoot-em-up game with a NPE that kills them _and even tells them they will die many times_. They mine in rat infested belts where NPCs try to kill them. They see Eve adverts where people get to be ‘gods of the battlefield’ or have ’ huge PvP battles’. They have zillions of Youtube and other content informing them of how the game works. And yet they have _no idea_ that other players might come along and kill them ?? I call baloney on that one. ---
**Author:** ![Spacetramp\_Drago](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/spacetramp_drago/32/480922_2.png) [@Spacetramp\_Drago](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Spacetramp_Drago)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2024, 2:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/845 "2024-03-12T14:10:01Z")
Nope, wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Baird](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wesley_baird/32/455827_2.png) [@Wesley\_Baird](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wesley_Baird)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2024, 2:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/846 "2024-03-12T14:23:32Z")
What is the goal of this discussion? If you remove all risk from high-sec, you will see the value of all wealth created in high-sec plummet. You remove mining gankers and all high-sec ores will dramatically fall in value. Remove high-sec war deccers, all high-sec moon goo value will drop dramatically. ie, you need predators in high-sec to help maintain the value of resources. If people harass you outside of the TOS report them. I come from a group that gets more than its fair share of RL threats ( countless in game threats ), report them. In general CCP does an adequate job at dealing with threats. Finally use the block feature. It cuts down on 97% of the nonesense that people generate in this game (and on the forums). [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970.md?page=40) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970.md?page=42)