# CCP Totally Failed it's Hsec players **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [January 30, 2024, 5:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970 "2024-01-30T17:58:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 46
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2024, 10:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/932 "2024-03-14T10:52:53Z")
> [@Shadmor\_Fatbutt](#): > > I believe many players have failed in common human decency to eachother in this game, more than other games. > This DOES support my argument that consent should be built in more to PvP in Eve. So getting drawn into combat and ship loss is indicative of a lack of human decency, and a failure on CCP’s part because the EULA doesn’t stipulate that you consent to pvp by using the product ? Just for my curiosity and lack of research: is there any other game out there that has such a clause in its EULA ? Is there, as an example, any fantasy MMO out there with a clause in its EULA saying that you _consent_ to the depiction of magic and violence, its active use, religious and satanic references or whatever else might trigger your real world sense of justice and decency ? If the answer is no, are you suggesting that such clauses should be there ? Would you insist on having such clauses printed on movie theater, museum and show tickets as well ? On the cover of books ? On music sheets ? It would depend on your love of censorship, and your sense for reality. Seems to me the solution is simple: you, as a user of the product, either conform to the spirit of the product - and many fellow players will gladly help you to do that - or you stop using it. But my expectations for either outcome are very, very low - and this thread will continue with producing nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2024, 10:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/933 "2024-03-14T10:59:46Z")
> [@Shadmor\_Fatbutt](#): > > several others Hum? Don’t want to dissapoint you, but as of right now you got TWO likes on the most liked comment and half of all you ever got were from Dracvlad, a dedicated Antiganker (at least in mind, he doesn’t actually fighting gankers in the game) who is a known figure here. Appears every some months, dropping some lines about how bad ganking is (with no proof at all of course) and then disappearing again without any trace in the game that he does even exist. Wouldn’t exactly call that “several” in a way like you’d had a support train rolling… Just sayin’ ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2024, 11:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/934 "2024-03-14T11:03:40Z")
Hullo again, Shadmor. You sound like a tub-thumping moralist. Perhaps that’s your intention. No matter; humans are a varied lot and your notions are not new to me. I can safely ignore most of them. > [@Shadmor\_Fatbutt](#): > > I actually want to help make EVE a better place Better for whom? Better for those like yourself, probably. If you wished to make EVE better for _everybody_, know that such an aim - however altruistically motivated - would be doomed to failure. > [@Shadmor\_Fatbutt](#): > > Are you here to look for people who are having a bad time and tell them to leave in the most patronizing way you can think to do that? No. I’m simply outlining options which we all have when engaging in forum exchanges. Any of us could either stay or leave. If you found my tone ‘patronizing’, then in one sense you would be correct; I am speaking to you as would a fond father to his child - giving you wise counsel, and also correcting you where it appeared to be necessary. Don’t bristle, Shadmor, it’s all intended as gently provocative. Even my habit of introducing spaces between my paragraphs is, in its way, an exhortation to improvement for those who care not if their fellow gamer is inconvenienced. On one thing we do agree. Roleplay has no place in my discourse, either. I am earnest, sincere and, frequently, direct. There. We have found common cause. ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2024, 11:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/935 "2024-03-14T11:31:42Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > Dracvlad, a dedicated Antiganker Well thats what you do when you suck at ganking, you become an antiganker. Or should we say, a wannabe antiganker as too scared to even duel @Destiny_Corrupted, never mind antigank. ---
**Author:** ![TheHound\_OfGreys](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/thehound_ofgreys/32/412487_2.png) [@TheHound\_OfGreys](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/TheHound_OfGreys)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2024, 12:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/936 "2024-03-14T12:29:03Z")
You know, reading this just makes me want to move as far away from you people as possible. I don’t think there’s anything intelligent I could possibly add, because all semblance of a half decent conversation went out the window days ago. This has only heavily reinforced my opinion that _everyone_ sucks. Normally I only go into lowsec to get more valuable resources, now I’m going to do it exclusively to avoid all of you. Do the game a favor and stay in highsec, please. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2024, 12:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/937 "2024-03-14T12:34:30Z")
> [@TheHound\_OfGreys](#): > > Normally I only go into lowsec to get more valuable resources, now I’m going to do it exclusively to avoid all of you. As one of several lowsec residents that frequents the forums, I’m confused. ---
**Author:** ![TheHound\_OfGreys](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/thehound_ofgreys/32/412487_2.png) [@TheHound\_OfGreys](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/TheHound_OfGreys)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2024, 12:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/938 "2024-03-14T12:38:55Z")
> [@Io\_Koval](#): > > I’m confused. Well, perhaps that was a bad example. Point is, everyone here _sucks_. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2024, 12:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/939 "2024-03-14T12:42:42Z")
> [@Shadmor\_Fatbutt](#): > > Consent is critical when you play with others - and it isn’t always explicitly obtained by “do you consent to x” language between players - it sometimes comes in the form of pursuit of a shared declared goal, or after finishing a class, training, or orientation that prepares specifically for one purpose, then you both work towards that purpose. But as soon as the game changes, new consent needs to be established for it to be an actual game. Do you wish consent wasn’t necessary? It happens to be in order to play together. You have the consent of your corp mates in many situations whether you think about it or not. Sheesh what a load of nonsensical waffle. It’s really very simple. If you log in to a space shoot-em-up game…the very act of doing so is consent to space shoot-em-ups. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2024, 1:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/940 "2024-03-14T13:01:46Z")
> [@Shadmor\_Fatbutt](#): > > Where did you learn what an ass whooping was? EVE? This is a real discussion Oops. You made a logical fallacy. This one is called “False equivalency.” Real life ass whooping is not the same as a discussion about a fictional videogame. You may want to take some courses in logic, and have that under your belt instead of pretending to know what it is, and using it as some sort of baseless threat in a futile attempt to intimidate your fellow forum posters. E.g. > [@Shadmor\_Fatbutt](#): > > Do not go down the logic road with me unless you really want to be schooled. I love the cognitive dissonance you exhibited here: > [@Shadmor\_Fatbutt](#): > > Come on! What are you waiting for!?? I’ve been waiting for you to have a discussion with me since I got here. Aiko has a life, and is probably playing the game instead of waiting around to respond to you as if you’re the center of the universe. How arrogant is that? Yet you have no problem calling other people that. > [@Shadmor\_Fatbutt](#): > > So Arrogant […] I really can’t take anything you say seriously. Your argument is biased with emotions, you fail to consider the other viewpoints, you demand that yours be acknowledged and embraced and you hide behind pauedointellectualism and some terminology you heard on a youtube video. ---
**Author:** ![TheHound\_OfGreys](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/thehound_ofgreys/32/412487_2.png) [@TheHound\_OfGreys](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/TheHound_OfGreys)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2024, 1:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/941 "2024-03-14T13:14:04Z")
Man, my popcorn bucket’s almost empty. Shame too, this has been very entertaining. ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2024, 1:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/942 "2024-03-14T13:38:01Z")
That’s odd, Hound. Not but a moment ago you were ready to flounce out, claiming that ‘everyone here _sucks_.’ Could it be that you are secretly attracted to those who ‘suck’? You should refill that bucket - and quickly - if you wish to further feed your fancy! ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2024, 1:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/943 "2024-03-14T13:42:14Z")
> [@TheHound\_OfGreys](#): > > reading this just makes me want to move as far away from you people as possible. Can I have your stuff? ---
**Author:** ![TheHound\_OfGreys](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/thehound_ofgreys/32/412487_2.png) [@TheHound\_OfGreys](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/TheHound_OfGreys)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2024, 1:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/944 "2024-03-14T13:44:08Z")
> [@Zaera\_Keena](#): > > Can I have your stuff? Not saying I’m quitting, just saying I’m going to avoid you in game if possible ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2024, 1:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/945 "2024-03-14T13:47:25Z")
> [@TheHound\_OfGreys](#): > > I’m going to avoid you ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/a/c/9/ac956fb65fbc8b350ddee098175add1b7714985f.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Wes\_Wyhunnan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wes_wyhunnan/32/409400_2.png) [@Wes\_Wyhunnan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wes_Wyhunnan)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2024, 3:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/946 "2024-03-14T15:09:54Z")
@Shadmor_Fatbutt So after all these posts have you come to any sort of conclusion about what you are actually going to do to solve your moon problem? It is feasible that at some point in the future CCP might change game mechanics enough to solve it, but that seems unlikely enough that I doubt it will be soon enough to save you. Pleading with the forums in some sort of moral or ethical level isn’t going to work either. @Aiko_Danuja seems to consider what she is doing currently interesting game play so I highly doubt she is going to stop unless you somehow make them or something more interesting comes along. So what is the actual current plan to remedy your situation? Do you have one? We can discuss these philosophical questions all day but it isnt going to help if you are just sitting docked in an NPC station. ---
**Author:** ![Namdor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/namdor/32/396179_2.png) [@Namdor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Namdor)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2024, 3:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/947 "2024-03-14T15:20:52Z")
> [@Shadmor\_Fatbutt](#): > > Consent is critical when you play with others - and it isn’t always explicitly obtained by “do you consent to x” language between players - it sometimes comes in the form of pursuit of a shared declared goal, or after finishing a class, training, or orientation that prepares specifically for one purpose, then you both work towards that purpose. But as soon as the game changes, new consent needs to be established for it to be an actual game. Do you wish consent wasn’t necessary? It happens to be in order to play together. You have the consent of your corp mates in many situations whether you think about it or not. The rules of the game allow open world PvP everywhere, all the time. Consent is implicitly granted when you choose to play. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2024, 3:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/948 "2024-03-14T15:29:40Z")
Oh, he only needs to undock and look how others do it. I sent a scout to Oisio recently to get a look at the _horrors_ going on there and actually expected to find a system full of evildoers, flashy red skulls in local and Catalysts on Dscan, Stations in Reinforce Mode, Wrecks and floating corpses everywhere. But no…, to my surprise the system was completely calm, two Orcas and a dozen Mackinaws peacefully mining Moon Ore, uncontested by anyone. Looks like the trick is “cooperation”, as I suspected. Maybe he ask the Leadership of his 25.000 man alliance about some “Backup” in combat ships to secure mining operations? Lets see what they say. ---
**Author:** ![Spacetramp\_Drago](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/spacetramp_drago/32/480922_2.png) [@Spacetramp\_Drago](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Spacetramp_Drago)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2024, 4:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/949 "2024-03-14T16:19:19Z")
There’s a good reason she’s blocked, you took your sweet time to realise that. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2024, 4:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/950 "2024-03-14T16:34:28Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > Hum? Don’t want to dissapoint you, but as of right now you got TWO likes on the most liked comment and half of all you ever got were from Dracvlad, a dedicated Antiganker (at least in mind, he doesn’t actually fighting gankers in the game) who is a known figure here. Appears every some months, dropping some lines about how bad ganking is (with no proof at all of course) and then disappearing again without any trace in the game that he does even exist. > > Wouldn’t exactly call that “several” in a way like you’d had a support train rolling… Just sayin’ Not currently fighting gankers in game, who is really? No one in fact, organised AG play got nerfed and who wants to play in isolation, well maybe excessively multi-boxing gankers do. To be clear referring to me as a dedicated AG is just plain wrong, and even suggesting that I thought that is even more wrong. When I did some AG, I only did so it when I was bored and kept well away from the organised AG people until near the end of their play, they no longer play by the way. So I never called myself a dedicated anti-ganker and to say that is pure stupidity on your part. I was however a dedicated forum poster who tried to discuss and debate ganking like Shadmor is attempting to do, and did so for quite a long period, I focussed on game balance in terms of ganking and still do. Thank you for your time, back to your toxic circle of abuse, o7 ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2024, 4:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/951 "2024-03-14T16:39:04Z")
> [@Shadmor\_Fatbutt](#): > > it really is that simple It’s soooo simple that you need 23 lines of waffle to explain it ! [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970.md?page=45) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970.md?page=47)