# CCP Totally Failed it's Hsec players **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [January 30, 2024, 5:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970 "2024-01-30T17:58:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Tec8n0](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tec8n0/32/469865_2.png) [@Tec8n0](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tec8n0)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2024, 12:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/102 "2024-02-01T00:23:49Z")
OP, just get a mining permit. ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2024, 12:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/103 "2024-02-01T00:30:37Z")
The OP is clearly an entitled freeloader, thinks he can mine for free 😡 ---
**Author:** ![Githany\_Red](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/githany_red/32/378551_2.png) [@Githany\_Red](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Githany_Red)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2024, 11:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/104 "2024-02-01T11:55:34Z")
No don’t get a mining permit , that never helps , they even document it on their blog. Movement is the key thing, there guns are such short range that you can easily move away from thier optimum. When they go for large ships they always have a suicide tackler . Also remember these days they have to keep their SS high to dock and tether. Where before a kill right was pointless on a flashy red now you can use them if they are loitering about. So learn about kill right hunting and how it works but do remember they can fight back and don’t make them public and silly prices. ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2024, 12:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/105 "2024-02-01T12:24:30Z")
> [@Githany\_Red](#): > > No don’t get a mining permit ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/0/7/f/07f9a9d2fba2c6806a1b82add8c1d6f2f803395a.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Tiger\_space\_Thedark](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tiger_space_thedark/32/373728_2.png) [@Tiger\_space\_Thedark](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tiger_space_Thedark)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2024, 12:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/106 "2024-02-01T12:30:09Z")
Can i have your isk ? ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2024, 12:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/107 "2024-02-01T12:41:51Z")
We have decided that mining permits are just for plebs. ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2024, 1:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/108 "2024-02-01T13:28:36Z")
> [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](#): > > mining permits are just for plebs You bought one sweetie ---
**Author:** ![Phaelons\_Zimart](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/phaelons_zimart/32/389524_2.png) [@Phaelons\_Zimart](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Phaelons_Zimart)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2024, 3:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/109 "2024-02-01T15:37:16Z")
seen at least 3 FB posts in various eve groups only today with new players asking to to group up with people to learn the ropes so theres still a lot of players in high sec to hook up with and work agaisnt being ganked ---
**Author:** ![Mindahouf\_Davaham](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mindahouf_davaham/32/379996_2.png) [@Mindahouf\_Davaham](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mindahouf_Davaham)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2024, 6:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/110 "2024-02-01T18:13:47Z")
would love to see him do or try to do an eve video ---
**Author:** ![Princess\_Rose\_Ivory](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/princess_rose_ivory/32/433985_2.png) [@Princess\_Rose\_Ivory](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Princess_Rose_Ivory)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2024, 8:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/111 "2024-02-01T20:14:24Z")
Speaker as a newish alpha player - started August 1st - I don’t know if you understand this game very well. I am not making fun of you in any way, I just don’t think you have a grasp on this game. > [@Notjedi](#): > > The ganker gangs have completely taken over any system they want. If this was true, I think I would have noticed, when hauling my stuff to market. I know recently Hek system went from a yellow zone to blue. People talk in chat about wanting to make Dodixie and/or Jita go yellow, but I think that is not going to happen. It is just wishful thinking on their part. > [@Notjedi](#): > > And players are only allowed to mine “play the game” if they buy a permit from them. You would have to be insane to buy such a worthless promise from a pirate. Are you sure you are in a blue zone? I mine ore in 0.3 and 0.4 low security and never ran into the problems you are describing. Why and what are you mining in high security zones that is so valuable they would risk losing their ships to Edencom? > [@Notjedi](#): > > I will not keep paying $40 a month {I run 2 accounts} just to be a target for gankers. That is your decision to make, I never paid a dime out to them so far as I am still alpha, still having fun. I am a proud barnacle on the hull of CCP. > [@Notjedi](#): > > Personally I’m done, will not spend $1 more and no longer recommend Eve. Instead I feel that I should warn players that unless their goal is to be a ganker don’t play. I have played from 2009 and lost many ships all in a day of EVE but the state the game is in now is sad. From 2009 to 2023 is 14 years or about 168 months. Assuming you paid for all those months, $6,700 in total. I hope you had lots of enjoyment, since that is like 3 good vacation trips or 1 heck of a week in Las Vegas. I think that story is very sad indeed. I hope you find purpose in whatever you decide to do next. Meanwhile, I will continue on and fly safe o7 ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2024, 8:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/112 "2024-02-01T20:26:17Z")
> [@Princess\_Rose\_Ivory](#): > > I hope you find propose in whatever you decide to do next Unlikely ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/8/c/c/8cca7312607e25d5030e4ba3fdb87c4dd17a1dda.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Ulysses\_Redmane](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ulysses_redmane/32/410129_2.png) [@Ulysses\_Redmane](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ulysses_Redmane)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2024, 8:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/113 "2024-02-01T20:28:41Z")
> [@Princess\_Rose\_Ivory](#): > > started August 1st Absolutely blessed newbie post. 💯 This game might _actually_ survive another ten years. ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2024, 8:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/114 "2024-02-01T20:34:03Z")
> [@Ulysses\_Redmane](#): > > Absolutely blessed newbie post. Newbie 1 Whinebaby 0 ---
**Author:** ![Kudzu\_Shi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kudzu_shi/32/409490_2.png) [@Kudzu\_Shi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kudzu_Shi)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2024, 10:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/115 "2024-02-01T22:12:47Z")
As someone who almost exclusively does HS freighting, this is a commonly discussed topic not only in game, but across some of the other freighting networks I participate in via discord and teamspeak. The beauty of EVE Online is that it is truly a **sandbox** MMO. The game developers don’t ultimately determine the security of hi-sec space, they just put measures in place to make things “a little safer”. It’s up to you to plan accordingly to prevent getting ganked or running into other issues. Someone who plays EVE will fly from Jita to Amarr because that’s what their route says, but someone who truly understands the game will do their research prior to their trip, which may include checking eve-gatecheck, scouting, or planning a different route to avoid potentially or historically deadly systems. CCP is **NOT** at fault for losses that occur in high security space due to poor planning or execution on the pilots end. Do your research and plan accordingly to ensure you actually make it to your destination or survive whatever activity you’re trying to do, whether it’s mining or freighting or anything else. ---
**Author:** ![Eloken\_Toralen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/eloken_toralen/32/401714_2.png) [@Eloken\_Toralen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Eloken_Toralen)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 5:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/116 "2024-02-02T05:47:10Z")
> [@Tirador69](#): > > yes they are, hence why its so easy to kill them A hulk fills in like 5 minutes. If doing nothing for 5 minutes is considered AFK, some people in the cloaky camping thread might appreciate your support in further nerfing AFK cloaky camping. > [@Tirador69](#): > > its easy to avoid as i mentioned, if you know how Like how high sec wars were easy to avoid by never playing? Its not that ganking has no place in the game, its that meaningful consequences need to be part of the balance. Using ISK to buy security status token allows the rich to bypass consequences. > [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](#): > > Hisec is fine /thread Its fine if you do not live in high sec. All the null, wh and low sec groups get a steady stream of recruits who just realized those more ‘dangerous’ parts of space are actually safer because you no longer have to wait for the ganker to fire the first shot. > [@Syzygium](#): > > N+1 won’t help them if you are not there any more once they land on your grid. They cannot magically teleport to you, they have to warp to you. And if you just click “warp” when the local spikes, you will be pretty safe a few hundred kilometers away on a bouncespot watching them landing in an empty belt. Cannot be aligned and stay in range of the rocks forever, that is why higgs anchors exist. Even if you get away, they hang around just for the tears. > [@Parsius](#): > > undocking is consent to PvP, someone out there wants your stuff, don’t make it easy for them. Undocking in most systems is consent to PvP, in others it is not, consider this when making blanket statements. > [@Ulysses\_Redmane](#): > > If CCP coddles new players too much they’ll never learn, and they already have a hard time learning as-is. CCP is coddling new players. I was talking to someone from the recruitment channel and they wanted to mine to PLEX their account. When I broke the numbers down and explained to them in max skill venture mining ‘regular’ ore, that it would take 90 laser hours to generate that isk, they did not believe me. If they wanted to mine in a barge or exhumer, they would be mining for months to recoup the ISK cost of the extra SP required, just to get back to the same amount of ISK they have now. Head in the sand. CCP sells people this idea that they can change EVE where in reality very few get to that level and everyone else is just a cog. > [@Zaera\_Keena](#): > > EVE is not about balance, it is about survival of the fittest. Actually there was a CCP presentation a few fanfests ago that said EVE is a PvE game. The quote was something like ‘wait 15 minutes and like the weather in iceland, it can be completely different’ or somesuch. I cannot find the video on youtube or the twitch stream, but it was when CCP was talking about how every month a whole village of people try EVE and quit. > [@Rocket\_Hellfire](#): > > Of course unless you are one of the useless cogs in a nullsec clique that is decided by less than 10 people… Naw, the apex is now blue loot. WH’s laugh at the DBS/MESS of null and abysal runners are printing isk all the way to the bank because people do not want to loos their ship when the cluster randomly DC’s because of some ISP messing with routing tables every 15 minutes. > [@Zaera\_Keena](#): > > Absolute Tosh. Literally any other activity in a first world country would likely make more money. Just think, after 24 hours of mining in high sec, the income is almost as much as what the worker who sewed your shirt together made, and they probably did like 30 of them. > [@Mephiztopheleze](#): > > A ship that’s stopped can warp to something behind it just as fast as something in front of it. From zero velocity, the direction you’re facing doesn’t matter. Its the stopped bit that tricks people. When they align to the something, mentall they are planning on wher ethey want to go, as opposed to flying directly away from the aign target, in which case time to hit warp is at a worst case, doubled. > [@Githany\_Red](#): > > as we did advertise this in all channels we did hope for a bit of a battle but alas they never really want to fight us. Pretty sure there is a kids story about a rabbit caught by a farmer and as the farmer decides if to make a stew or a pie the rabbit keeps pleading not to be throwin in the briar patch. Why attack someone who wants to be attacked eh? > [@Ulysses\_Redmane](#): > > You can say what you want but just having the direction lined up helps when a death ball pops up on your UI and shoves all the stations down your overlay. Being aligned and having your overview set up correct are two different items. > [@Zaera\_Keena](#): > > keep aligned and insta warp when a flashy appears. A flashy? When a corp without structures can be war free, why not have a holding corp and rather thanmine in one that has a war? > [@Mephiztopheleze](#): > > Gankers come at you fully aware that they will lose their ships. Nothing will save them from CONCORD. Its specifically stated that avoiding CONCORD in any way is regarded as an exploit. And yet those in Udema avoid getting banned for delaying the CONCORD response by starting off a gank by having two of their own rookie ships shoot at each other, causing CONCORD to spawn 1000km away and delay the secondary response? > [@Mephiztopheleze](#): > > They do the math, figure out exactly how many catalysts or thrashers they need to be certain of success. This is the very reason it is unbalanced, its a near mathematical certainty of victory. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 6:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/117 "2024-02-02T06:04:18Z")
> [@Eloken\_Toralen](#): > > Cannot be aligned and stay in range of the rocks forever You don’t have to. A Catalyst needs _at least_ 20 seconds from jumpin into the system to engaging you (assuming an average ~10 AU warp distance between gate and belt). In that time you can easily warp out twice from 0m/s standstill. Even if you are in a very small system and it’s a bit faster, you can _still_ easily warp out in under 10 seconds any time if you are just paying attention. ---
**Author:** ![Eloken\_Toralen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/eloken_toralen/32/401714_2.png) [@Eloken\_Toralen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Eloken_Toralen)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 6:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/118 "2024-02-02T06:17:49Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > Even if you are in a very small system and it’s a bit faster, you can _still_ easily warp out in under 10 seconds any time if you are just paying attention. How do you know its a catalyst unless you are mining on a gate? Smashing D-Scan over and over, even at 14 AU its not much time to respond to a ship already at max warp and who wants to be spamming buttons all the time while trying to peacefully mine? Naw, this is why people walk away. ---
**Author:** ![Mephiztopheleze](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mephiztopheleze/32/381036_2.png) [@Mephiztopheleze](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mephiztopheleze)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 6:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/119 "2024-02-02T06:30:32Z")
> [@Eloken\_Toralen](#): > > And yet those in Udema avoid getting banned for delaying the CONCORD response by starting off a gank by having two of their own rookie ships shoot at each other, causing CONCORD to spawn 1000km away and delay the secondary response? Pre-Spawning CONCORD isn’t avoiding CONCORD. Avoiding CONCORD is an exploit. Pulling CONCORD off a gate is not. In the specific case of Uedama, they want CONCORD off the gate so they can gank the next hapless fool who comes trundling through. In any case, pre-spawning CONCORD doesn’t “delay” CONCORD. It just resets their response time to the default for that security status. If CONCORD is already ongrid and in range, then they respond instantly. > [@Eloken\_Toralen](#): > > This is the very reason it is unbalanced, its a near mathematical certainty of victory. How is this “unbalanced”? They figure out how much damage they need to bring, they bring that much damage, probably +1 catty to be certain. > [@Eloken\_Toralen](#): > > Cannot be aligned and stay in range of the rocks forever, that is why higgs anchors exist. Yes, you 100% can. You setup multiple bookmarks around the belt on opposite sides. Align to one, when your getting out of range of the rocks align to the other. voila, you’re always aligned to a safe warpout spot and constantly mining. With said Higgs rig, you’re moving at a crawl. [quote=“Eloken Toralen, post:116, topic:437970, username:Eloken\_Toralen”] Even if you get away, they hang around just for the tears. [/quote] If you get away and you’re feeding them tears in local, you’re giving them _exactly_ what they want without the killmail or loot. Of course they’ll hang around to drink in your salt, that’s why they’re there: to generate salt. Don’t give them what they want. Sheesh, why do I have to spell that out? ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 6:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/120 "2024-02-02T06:38:59Z")
> [@Eloken\_Toralen](#): > > Naw, this is why people walk away. It’s been discussed to death on these forums and the numbers from fanfest would indicate that people walk away because doing activities by yourself in Eve is very dull and boring. We’re not treading new ground here and trying to point to Ganking as the „Sole Reason“ why people walk away is simply being unaware or in denial of the data already discussed umpteen billion times. ---
**Author:** ![Eloken\_Toralen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/eloken_toralen/32/401714_2.png) [@Eloken\_Toralen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Eloken_Toralen)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 8:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/121 "2024-02-02T08:14:54Z")
> [@Mephiztopheleze](#): > > Pre-Spawning CONCORD isn’t avoiding CONCORD. Avoiding CONCORD is an exploit. Pulling CONCORD off a gate is not. > In the specific case of Uedama, they want CONCORD off the gate so they can gank the next hapless fool who comes trundling through. > In any case, pre-spawning CONCORD doesn’t “delay” CONCORD. It just resets their response time to the default for that security status. If CONCORD is already ongrid and in range, then they respond instantly. Classic salami slicer argument using word definitions for a defense. If it does not delay the CONCORD response, then why do it, when its otherwise just increasing the cost of a gank by more ship loss? First item in the known exploits section [https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/204873262-Known-Declared-Exploits](https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/204873262-Known-Declared-Exploits) ![20240202-054623](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/1/9/2/192a2d783e63bacd4fe6f30a4aee3e9f7887b670.png) > [@Mephiztopheleze](#): > > They figure out how much damage they need to bring, they bring that much damage, probably +1 catty to be certain. Which is the same formula one group used to defeat CONCORD when CONCORD damage was a fixed value. Considering the response was the implementation of a massive DPS ramp for CONCORD, its typical of CCP to implement one mitigating mechanic to fix their own broken logic whilst ignoring another. > **[Spring Balance Update Incoming! | EVE Online](https://www.eveonline.com/news/view/spring-balance-update-incoming)** > > Check out this devblog from the EVE Dev Team about upcoming balance changes for the spring and summer! Clearly, N+1 is favour of the aggressor and whilst the nerf to logistics is less relevant for high secuirty space, its is still a clear bias. > [@Mephiztopheleze](#): > > Yes, you 100% can. (Forever(Aligned AND In Range)) NOT EQUAL TO (Sometimes(Aligned AND IN Range )) > [@Mephiztopheleze](#): > > Sheesh, why do I have to spell that out? Nothing was mentioned regarding local or feeding. Defensive options are to stop the activity, or leave, with no practical coercive resolution. At best a player can move 5 systems, wait for them to follow ( if they do not switch to alts ) and then file a harrasment ticket, but how many residents of high security even know those courses of redress? > [@Io\_Koval](#): > > Ganking as the „Sole Reason“ Its not the sole reason, only a reason that is underweighted due survivor bias and lack of situational awareness. First time I was ganked, I did not even know it was called ganking. Did not even know what the CSM was. Did not know there were markets outside of Hek and had no idea going into low sec to do level 3 missions was a bad idea. Its disingenuous to think that people who are new to the game can accurately articulate why it sucks on a exit survey they likely do not care to fill in after loosing the retriever they just pad $10 from the eve store. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970.md?page=5) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970.md?page=7)