# CCP Totally Failed it's Hsec players **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [January 30, 2024, 5:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970 "2024-01-30T17:58:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Eloken\_Toralen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/eloken_toralen/32/401714_2.png) [@Eloken\_Toralen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Eloken_Toralen)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 8:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/123 "2024-02-02T08:53:29Z")
Bother. I was reading that. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 9:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/124 "2024-02-02T09:01:58Z")
> [@Eloken\_Toralen](#): > > First time I was ganked > [@Eloken\_Toralen](#): > > had no idea going into low sec to do level 3 missions was a bad idea. Nit: This is just PvP, not Ganking. Your confusion between the two makes you come across as this months flavor of the forums anti-PvP essay writer. > [@Eloken\_Toralen](#): > > Its disingenuous to think that people who are new to the game can accurately articulate why it sucks on a exit survey they likely do not care to fill in after loosing the retriever they just pad $10 from the eve store There are definitely places it sucks, like CCP selling retrievers for $10 and badly advertising the game in a way to extract as much money short term from a new player before they quit in most likely boredom, sometimes frustration, churn-be-damned. I agree. But what is actually disingenuous is blaming _gankers_ and _PvPers_ for playing the game as it is intended, when you yourself lay out logic that points out the people you’re really upset with are CCP for pulling a bait and switch on potential players. Inaccurate advertising and bad unsustainable ways to take a customers money and inaccurately portraying the game mechanics themselves. It is not disingenuous, contrary to your belief, to defend the players who play the game as it is designed to be played and as mechanics allow them to do. ---
**Author:** ![Eloken\_Toralen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/eloken_toralen/32/401714_2.png) [@Eloken\_Toralen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Eloken_Toralen)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 9:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/125 "2024-02-02T09:18:36Z")
> [@Io\_Koval](#): > > our confusion between the two makes Being blown up in a Hulk in a 0.5 system is different to dying in a svipul trying to run a level 3. > [@Io\_Koval](#): > > this months flavor of the forums anti-PvP essay writer. I am not anti PvP, I actually like PvP, only not in High Security space outside of Wars. > [@Io\_Koval](#): > > But what is actually disingenuous is blaming _gankers_ and _PvPers_ for playing the game as it is intended, when you yourself lay out logic that points out the people you’re really upset with are CCP for pulling a bait and switch on potential players. Admittedly when EVE was sold in a box on shelf, the attitude of universal PvP was saleable and likely a net positive, however in this era where a small village of people try the game and quit every month its hard to see how this attitude is of benefit to the long term health of the game. If people find High security space unfair or unpleasant and are never given time to mature to the point where they can take on the challenge of a more “contested” area, that means fewer people going to FW, WH and Null areas. That is not to say that there are not cases where people who are ganked decide to dial the difficulty up to 10 and leave High Security space, but its hard to see how this better than giving people a good reason to go there on their own. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 9:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/126 "2024-02-02T09:27:51Z")
> [@Eloken\_Toralen](#): > > its hard to see how this attitude is of benefit to the long term health of the game. Is it, truly, hard to see? I find that surprising, given how observant you are. The game is one of very few online-and-always-networked games that has reached 20 years old. There must be something there; and if there appears to be none wouldn’t that spur a curiosity to resolve any blind spots instead of following blind belief? > [@Eloken\_Toralen](#): > > I am not anti PvP, I actually like PvP, only not in High Security space outside of Wars. I am sure you are convinced. Readers like me might not be, given you are sharing factually and objectively incorrect information, specifically about CONCORD pulling being an exploit. You can search these very forums to find GM or CCP statements that clarify it is _not an exploit_. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 9:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/127 "2024-02-02T09:31:17Z")
> [@Eloken\_Toralen](#): > > If it does not delay the CONCORD response, then why do it, if there is no concord on grid…and it takes 10 seconds for them to appear and do their business. Then using corvettes to pull concord to somewhere else is just resetting them for that grid…cause in a system that takes them 10 seconds to respond …they will always take 10 seconds to show up where they are not. Uedama is a .5 , so they take 19.5 seconds(20) to show up anywhere in sys. it is the response time gankers use to calculate the DPS to kill a target Now if Concord is 150km or closer on grid…then it will insta engage…because it is not showing/spawning on grid…it is already there. So pulling concord is simply resetting the grid to its default state. not an exploit ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 9:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/128 "2024-02-02T09:40:56Z")
> [@Io\_Koval](#): > > factually and objectively incorrect information Where I’m from we call that “alternative facts.” ---
**Author:** ![Mephiztopheleze](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mephiztopheleze/32/381036_2.png) [@Mephiztopheleze](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mephiztopheleze)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 9:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/129 "2024-02-02T09:56:23Z")
> [@Eloken\_Toralen](#): > > Classic salami slicer argument using word definitions for a defense. If it does not delay the CONCORD response, then why do it, when its otherwise just increasing the cost of a gank by more ship loss? > > First item in the known exploits section [https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/204873262-Known-Declared-Exploits](https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/204873262-Known-Declared-Exploits) Yes. Read the entire post. “delaying CONCORD for _ **AN EXTENDED PERIOD** _.” Pulling CONCORD off a gate does not do this, > [@Eloken\_Toralen](#): > > Which is the same formula one group used to defeat CONCORD when CONCORD damage was a fixed value. Considering the response was the implementation of a massive DPS ramp for CONCORD, its typical of CCP to implement one mitigating mechanic to fix their own broken logic whilst ignoring another. that was fixed in what, 2005? bringing it up now is kind of waving the white flag. > [@Eloken\_Toralen](#): > > Clearly, N+1 is favour of the aggressor and whilst the nerf to logistics is less relevant for high secuirty space, its is still a clear bias. The nerf to logistics was in response to hisec wardec corps using neutral logi. Kindly stop comparing Apples to Lychees. > [@Eloken\_Toralen](#): > > (Forever(Aligned AND In Range)) NOT EQUAL TO (Sometimes(Aligned AND IN Range )) you’re aligned what, 99%of the time using that tactic? ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 10:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/130 "2024-02-02T10:09:46Z")
> [@Eloken\_Toralen](#): > > How do you know its a catalyst unless you are mining on a gate? Smashing D-Scan over and over, even at 14 AU its not much time to respond to a ship already at max warp and who wants to be spamming buttons all the time while trying to peacefully mine? Naw, this is why people walk away. You don’t need to know. They need _multiple_ ships to gank any well-tanked Barge or Exhumer. So the moment they jump into the system you will _instantly_ notice 5, 6 or 8 new chars in local. If you have done your job right, all of them will already have a red standing so you _instantly_ know it’s gankers or other troublemakers. Thats easily done by checking the zKillboard for Miner-Ganks once every few days and add all of the involved corps to your red-standing list. Initiate warp immediately. If you haven’t done your job right and they are not set red (or you are in the very unlucky situation that you are indeed one of their first targets ever - which will almost _never_ be the case, talking about a 1:1000 chance here), you can still warp out if you at least align once the local goes up by 5+ people at once. Hit Dscan every second and if you see Catalysts, Thrashers, Talos, Ruptures etc… warp out. And thats only if you are solo. If you mine in a larger group, you can duel each other and instead of tank you fit HiggsAnchor and Tripleweb. Pairs of Two constantly web each other, which results in a “top speed” of 13m/s, reduce that manually to 80% which is enough to instantly warp, so your Hulks will move with 10m/s. Have two bookmarks in the belt in opposite directions and you can basically _mine forever while always being aligned_ and able to evacuate the whole miningfleet with a fleetwarp in one second. Thats enough to warp out even if the Gankers are already landing on grid, because they simply need longer to fall out of warp, lock and tackle you. If you don’t act like a professional, don’t cry if other professionals beat you. And Gankers usually _are_ professionals, they know what they are doing, they have crunched the numbers, learned the mechanics and made all the logistical and financial investments to execute their operations successfully. You will only beat them if you _respect that_ and realize that you have to at least get to their level of professionalism to counter them. There is no such thing like “I only want to mine in peace” in EVE Online. You are out there, you have no weapons, you will always be prey for people with weapons. If you can’t stand this, don’t undock. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 10:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/131 "2024-02-02T10:48:36Z")
> [@Notjedi](#): > > I have played from 2009 and lost many ships all in a day of EVE but the state the game is in now is sad. What is _truly_ sad is you undocking recently with Gunslinger, Lancer, Repair, and other combat implants…to go mining in a Hulk. You lost 436m worth of implants _needlessly_…and now you claim the game is unfair ? You claim to have two paid accounts…so you have at least 4 clones per char you can transfer to. Even on some combat missions ( let alone just mining ) I sometimes transfer to a ‘clean’ clone without all my implants…though usually with just one DPS enhancing implant. That way if I get podded I lose just 20m ISK or so…rather than several hundred million. Also…frankly the char you are posting on has lost _just_ 10 ships in 13 years and not ‘many’. Which is a piffling amount for such a duration. And your Hulk fittings aren’t exactly top notch either. Your shield recharger is pointless against gankers who can run that shield down to zero in 10 seconds or less, by which time your recharger will have had little to no effect. I see you did finally get rid of the shield recharger and correctly use shield extender instead…only to abandon Damage Control ! ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 10:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/132 "2024-02-02T10:56:21Z")
> [@Eloken\_Toralen](#): > > Undocking in most systems is consent to PvP, in others it is not ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/9/4/7/94706e7548bd306698758bc9b8919b401a999911.gif) > [@Eloken\_Toralen](#): > > while trying to peacefully mine? Well you see, that is your problem right there, EVE is a PvP game. Dr Zaera has looked for a soloution to your problem. In fangs expert opinion, as an expert in Gankotherapy, **Farmville** is more suitable for you, you should start playing this game immediately. ---
**Author:** ![Eloken\_Toralen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/eloken_toralen/32/401714_2.png) [@Eloken\_Toralen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Eloken_Toralen)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 11:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/133 "2024-02-02T11:02:48Z")
FAFO > **[Rookie Griefing](https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/203209712-Rookie-Griefing)** > > Getting started in EVE Online can be somewhat daunting for new players or rookies. Several systems in which new players typically start are deemed 'Rookie System' and in these systems (listed below... ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 11:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/134 "2024-02-02T11:16:20Z")
> [@Eloken\_Toralen](#): > > Cannot be aligned and stay in range of the rocks forever How not to get ganked… 1. Always mine on the other side of the asteroid belt to the ‘landing point’ for the belt…and slightly above or below the plane of the belt. This will place you as far away as possible from random gankers who warp into the belt. I never cease to be amazed at the number of miners who just sit there within easy reach of the belt landing point. 2. Place an asteroid between yourself and the most likely gate gankers are going to warp in from. This may cause some of the gankers to bounce off the asteroid. Doesn’t always work, but certainly worth trying. 3. Watch out for ganker scouts. You should really have a list of all ganker scouts and have them on bad standing. They will often enter the system before the main ganker fleet does. 4. Watch out for other ‘miners’ or indeed any other ship creeping in too close. That ship…which may simply appear to be a harmless Venture or something like that come to join you… may well be a ‘warp in’ point for the gankers. Be wary if anyone approaches closer than 10km. Some say use d-scan…but really, by the time gankers appear on d-scan its already too late. ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 11:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/135 "2024-02-02T11:18:47Z")
Alternatively mine like a dummy, get ganked, go to forums and … ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/0/e/0/0e0b8fe5aa1be3fddd378cfab4e27fd4d664b848.gif) ---
**Author:** ![an675](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/an675/32/399327_2.png) [@an675](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/an675)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 11:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/136 "2024-02-02T11:21:31Z")
> [@Eloken\_Toralen](#): > > First item in the known exploits section [https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/204873262-Known-Declared-Exploits](https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/204873262-Known-Declared-Exploits) You might want to read the clarification on this rule from 2021, before accusing people of exploiting, CCP have specifically stated that pulling concord isn’t an exploit: " **There will be no changes to how support are policing CONCORD interaction and that ‘pulling’ CONCORD or defensive spawning of CONCORD is currently permitted but we reserve the right to change this at a future date.**" > [@Pulling CONCORD is now a permaban offense](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pulling-concord-is-now-a-permaban-offense/334480/53): > > Closing for below Any declared exploit will be posted on the following support page; as well as; will generally have a news article about it (See the most recent CRAB exploit notification [Exploit Notification - CRAB | EVE Online](https://www.eveonline.com/news/view/exploit-notification-crab)) 1. Specifically restricted conduct. The purpose of the EVE Online forums is to provide a platform for exchange of ideas, and a venue for the discussion of EVE Online. Occasionally there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Forum users are expec… ---
**Author:** ![Eloken\_Toralen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/eloken_toralen/32/401714_2.png) [@Eloken\_Toralen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Eloken_Toralen)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 11:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/137 "2024-02-02T11:22:46Z")
> [@Io\_Koval](#): > > The game is one of very few online-and-always-networked games that has reached 20 years old. A sucker is born every minute. Sunk cost fallacy. Some things just take a long time to die, like bundled cable TV plans. > [@Io\_Koval](#): > > There must be something there; and if there appears to be none wouldn’t that spur a curiosity to resolve any blind spots instead of following blind belief? Nobody cared about high sec wars until one person on the CSM asked for numbers, lo and behold its like a 100 to 1 loss ratio in favour of the aggressor. Suddenly CCP decided to do something. Same with AFK cloaky camping. Blackout, the list goes on. Its equally as plausible that nobody is objectively looking at ganking either and its not going to get any traction if its an inconvenient truth. > [@Io\_Koval](#): > > You can search these very forums to find GM or CCP statements that clarify it is _not an exploit_. ISKBoxer wasn’t an exploit, until it was. Putting an ESS in a asteroid belt and pulling diamond rats to kill people wasn’t an exploit, until it was. Putting an ESS off a citadel wasn’t an exploit, until it was. Shooting at your own ships in FW wasn’t an exploit, until it was. > [@Max\_Deveron](#): > > So pulling concord is simply resetting the grid to its default state. not an exploit Its an exploit. Give it time. > [@Mephiztopheleze](#): > > The nerf to logistics was in response to hisec wardec corps using neutral logi. Diminishing reps is noting to do with neutral logi getting the wrath of CONCORD. > [@Mephiztopheleze](#): > > you’re aligned what, 99%of the time using that tactic? Depends on the belt and which way you traverse it. A fair number of belts are semi-circular, others a bit more of a hodgepodge. The reward in high security space for mining that crap is so garbage its almost better just to let them mine and instead pick on the ice belts. > [@Syzygium](#): > > They need _multiple_ ships to gank any well-tanked Barge or Exhumer. If you do not max yield a Hulk you are doing it wrong. Might as well be mining in a max yield skiff, has more tank without even trying. > [@Syzygium](#): > > Pairs of Two constantly web each other, which results in a “top speed” of 13m/s, reduce that manually to 80% which is enough to instantly warp, so your Hulks will move with 10m/s. Bit much for a new player though? > [@Syzygium](#): > > There is no such thing like “I only want to mine in peace” in EVE Online. You should swing by the recruitment channel, there are some dreams than need to be crushed. ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 11:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/138 "2024-02-02T11:25:27Z")
> [@Eloken\_Toralen](#): > > Its an exploit. Give it time No, it is only an exploit if CCP says it is. It is their game , not yours. ---
**Author:** ![Eloken\_Toralen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/eloken_toralen/32/401714_2.png) [@Eloken\_Toralen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Eloken_Toralen)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 11:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/139 "2024-02-02T11:26:37Z")
> [@Zaera\_Keena](#): > > It is their game , not yours. If the players never did the activity, would there still be an exploit? ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 11:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/140 "2024-02-02T11:36:39Z")
Nothing is an exploit until CCP says it is, capeesh? ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 11:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/141 "2024-02-02T11:38:00Z")
> [@Eloken\_Toralen](#): > > If you do not max yield a Hulk you are doing it wrong. Then what is there to complain about ganking? Intentionally chose a weak ship without weapns and without defenses, and even to lazy to watch the local? Totally deserved loss if it blows up. > [@Eloken\_Toralen](#): > > Bit much for a new player though? As said, it’s not nessessary if you are new (solo) player. If you already have multiple omega accounts that can fly Exhumers, you are not too new to fit some webbers and use bookmarks. Learning tactics like this is part of the progress and if one does not want to learn and advance, he is doomed to die over and over again. Thats not a problem with a game, but with his mindset. > [@Eloken\_Toralen](#): > > You should swing by the recruitment channel, there are some dreams than need to be crushed. I do educate frustrated miners on the forums. Unfortunately many of them enjoy complaining more than learning. ---
**Author:** ![Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geo_eclipse_oksaras/32/500781_2.png) [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 11:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970/142 "2024-02-02T11:39:07Z")
> [@Eloken\_Toralen](#): > > Its fine if you do not live in high sec. All the null, wh and low sec groups get a steady stream of recruits who just realized those more ‘dangerous’ parts of space are actually safer because you no longer have to wait for the ganker to fire the first shot. I live in hisec and our standings service is hisec. Are we totally safe? No. Are we targeted on a continual basis? No. Do we complain if we are? Not here. So hisec is no problem if you learn how to defend yourself and be less gankable or less of a target [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970.md?page=6) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-totally-failed-its-hsec-players/437970.md?page=8)