# CCP what is the counter balance for this **URL:** \ **Category:** Warfare & Tactics\ **Created:** [October 16, 2017, 1:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-what-is-the-counter-balance-for-this/31804 "2017-10-16T01:53:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Li\_Tavian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/li_tavian/32/26051_2.png) [@Li\_Tavian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Li_Tavian)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 9:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-what-is-the-counter-balance-for-this/31804/41 "2017-10-17T21:00:44Z")
> [@Sarah\_Flynt](#): > > As your camp doesn’t get tired to stress how basically any action in this game is PVP, let me suggest a very obvious PVP counter: out-mine him. That answer is far too obvious apparently. ---
**Author:** ![Liafcipe9000](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/liafcipe9000/32/442097_2.png) [@Liafcipe9000](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Liafcipe9000)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 11:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-what-is-the-counter-balance-for-this/31804/42 "2017-10-17T23:55:35Z")
> [@Black\_Pedro](#): > > cost-effective … cost-effective … lose ISK on the deal … cost … who cares about cost effective? just kill that monster already and be done with it. ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Pedro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_pedro/32/257285_2.png) [@Black\_Pedro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Pedro)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2017, 6:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-what-is-the-counter-balance-for-this/31804/43 "2017-10-18T06:06:18Z")
> [@Liafcipe9000](#): > > who cares about cost effective? just kill that monster already and be done with it. You first. Why would I waste my resources to attack someone when the only outcome I can hope for is for them to be relatively better off than me? If I was that multiboxer I would want people to try so I could laugh at them and their self-inflicted wounds. The only plausible reason to attack then is “fun” and that isn’t enough in a PvP game when you set the bar and cost to attack so high. So almost no one does and Skiff and Orca multi-boxing fleets are the norm in highsec. This is completely intentional though. CCP decided that economically immune mining ships were something they wanted in their game for some reason and scenes like the screenshot in the OP are the completely predictable outcome. We can debate the merits of such a game design but I am certainly not going to bang my head against that wall and waste my limited time and resources so the multiboxer can have a good laugh at my futile efforts. So you have at it. I’ll keep focusing my efforts on battles the game mechanics actually allow me to win. ---
**Author:** ![elitatwo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elitatwo/32/373473_2.png) [@elitatwo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/elitatwo)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2017, 8:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-what-is-the-counter-balance-for-this/31804/44 "2017-10-18T08:18:13Z")
> [@Keno\_Skir](#): > > If enough people botting can make double the ISK you can in their playtime, your TIME becomes worth half what theirs is. Thank you Sherlock, I almost didn’t notice. And I haven’t complained about it a bazillion times now. The solution is much, much simple. Has your multiple-personality-disorder but not break the laws of physics. Here is a law of physics: A body can only be in one place at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![Keno\_Skir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/keno_skir/32/460582_2.png) [@Keno\_Skir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Keno_Skir)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2017, 9:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-what-is-the-counter-balance-for-this/31804/45 "2017-10-18T09:21:15Z")
> [@elitatwo](#): > > Thank you Sherlock, I almost didn’t notice. And I haven’t complained about it a bazillion times now. The solution is much, much simple. Has your multiple-personality-disorder but not break the laws of physics. > > Here is a law of physics: > > A body can only be in one place at the same time. That’s not a law of physics. The laws of physics actually suggest everybody is in multiple places at the same time. But aside from that, bots / afk mining means someone can run multiple pilots at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![Liafcipe9000](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/liafcipe9000/32/442097_2.png) [@Liafcipe9000](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Liafcipe9000)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2017, 11:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-what-is-the-counter-balance-for-this/31804/46 "2017-10-18T11:14:21Z")
I still only see excuses why not to shoot. if you want to shoot, shoot - don’t make excuses. ---
**Author:** ![elitatwo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elitatwo/32/373473_2.png) [@elitatwo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/elitatwo)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2017, 11:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-what-is-the-counter-balance-for-this/31804/47 "2017-10-18T11:21:24Z")
> [@Keno\_Skir](#): > > The laws of physics actually suggest There is a very huge difference between a law of physics and some wild theory. I am not talking about quantum mechanics or a multiverse theory because they are just that, a theory and not a law. A law of physics becomes a law when it is indisputable and proven. A theory while not unproven is an educated guess that still has to be proven to be even considered. But since you made a wild claim, show me indisputable proof without reasonable doubt that you are in more than one place at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![Keno\_Skir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/keno_skir/32/460582_2.png) [@Keno\_Skir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Keno_Skir)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2017, 11:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-what-is-the-counter-balance-for-this/31804/48 "2017-10-18T11:49:30Z")
> [@elitatwo](#): > > There is a very huge difference between a law of physics and some wild theory. I am not talking about quantum mechanics or a multiverse theory because they are just that, a theory and not a law. > > A law of physics becomes a law when it is indisputable and proven. > > A theory while not unproven is an educated guess that still has to be proven to be even considered. > > But since you made a wild claim, show me indisputable proof without reasonable doubt that you are in more than one place at the same time. You need to learn what “suggest” means. You even quoted me saying they suggest, not they prove or demonstrate. Either way read up for yourself it doesn’t really matter for the purpose of this discussion about spaceships. Was a passing comment at best :margaritaparrot: ---
**Author:** ![elitatwo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elitatwo/32/373473_2.png) [@elitatwo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/elitatwo)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2017, 11:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-what-is-the-counter-balance-for-this/31804/49 "2017-10-18T11:50:51Z")
The point is, this multiple-personality-disorder thing is bad for EVE. ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Pedro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_pedro/32/257285_2.png) [@Black\_Pedro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Pedro)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2017, 12:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-what-is-the-counter-balance-for-this/31804/50 "2017-10-18T12:06:20Z")
> [@Liafcipe9000](#): > > I still only see excuses why not to shoot. if you want to shoot, shoot - don’t make excuses. Why would I want to shoot them? There is no reason to and plenty of reasons not to. The much better plan is just to get myself my own multboxing mining fleet. ---
**Author:** ![Dirk\_Kajhone](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dirk_kajhone/32/419135_2.png) [@Dirk\_Kajhone](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dirk_Kajhone)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2017, 1:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-what-is-the-counter-balance-for-this/31804/51 "2017-10-18T13:50:35Z")
Unless I misunderstand the process, bot-mining (or any mining) is not ISK creation. Mining extracts minerals, which are either sold to other players or used to manufacture items which are sold to other players. This only recirculates existing ISK. It even contributes to ISK sinking, since most of these processes have taxes/fees involved at some point which removes small percents of ISK from the game. If it isn’t ‘creating’ ISK then it isn’t driving inflation, in fact as others pointed out it makes things cheaper. Yes, in relative/competitive terms someone bot-ISKing to earn more ISK/hr than you can be seen as reducing your earning value/hr; in other ways they reduce your costs/hr by reducing prices (unless you are also a miner of course, in which case they directly out-compete you). Actual ISKflation is caused by things like AFK ratting, Incursions, and mission running, where actual new ISK is created by the game and injected into the player economy, rather than merely recirculating old ISK. So it’s the AFK ratters and the heavy mission-payout/pirate bounty players you want to look at if you are worried about who’s really ‘ruining’ the economy. ---
**Author:** ![Li\_Tavian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/li_tavian/32/26051_2.png) [@Li\_Tavian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Li_Tavian)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2017, 2:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-what-is-the-counter-balance-for-this/31804/52 "2017-10-18T14:30:08Z")
> [@Dirk\_Kajhone](#): > > So it’s the AFK ratters and the heavy mission-payout/pirate bounty players you want to look at if you are worried about who’s really ‘ruining’ the economy. For all the people that play this (mostly) real economy game, always amazed at how few people grasp the idea of supply and demand and inflation/deflation. Excess amounts of ore, whether from massive Orca fleets or whatever, reduce inflation as all items based on those commodities become cheaper to make. Due to the sales taxes, I suspect that mass sales of ores and minerals actually act as somewhat of an ISK sink, as those sales taxes are permanently removed from the game, making ISK slightly more scarce - but not near enough to offset the new ISK that is created in many other ways. ---
**Author:** ![King\_Bongo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/king_bongo/32/13041_2.png) [@King\_Bongo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/King_Bongo)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2017, 2:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-what-is-the-counter-balance-for-this/31804/53 "2017-10-18T14:33:38Z")
![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/5/a/5a0fe0b80fab460330102b5055bf1daddecdd8e3.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Cristl](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cristl/32/13387_2.png) [@Cristl](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cristl)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2017, 3:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-what-is-the-counter-balance-for-this/31804/54 "2017-10-18T15:44:31Z")
I think we’re talking at crossed purposes. I don’t know where you’re getting smart bombs from. I’m suggesting a _night of the velators_: just a couple of light neutron blasters I’s and maybe a magstab or two. Cheap as chips. Fly in, turn on heat, pop drones (the T2 are like 4 million, and even T1 you could trade even) and then just ctrl-q to the next alphas. You can pull, and or, moon concord as you do it if you like. ---
**Author:** ![Cristl](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cristl/32/13387_2.png) [@Cristl](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cristl)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2017, 3:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-what-is-the-counter-balance-for-this/31804/55 "2017-10-18T15:52:00Z")
I’ve moved house and all my stuff is in boxes (and I’ve got to go to Tokyo). Can anyone give me the damage stats (per volley and cooldown time) on a fresh character please? Or maybe one day old. ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2017, 4:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-what-is-the-counter-balance-for-this/31804/56 "2017-10-18T16:31:12Z")
> [@elitatwo](#): > > There is a very huge difference between a law of physics and some wild theory. I am not talking about quantum mechanics or a multiverse theory because they are just that, a theory and not a law. > > A law of physics becomes a law when it is indisputable and proven. Like Newtons laws of motion? There are ONLY theories in physics. Everything is a theory and can at it’s highest be the best current explanation or approximation of how stuff works, but it can never ever be proven to be true. There is no prove in physics, there is in math, but that is something different. Another fun fact: The current theories based in Quantum mechanics are the most accurate theories in all of science. Meaning they describe the stuff we measure ridiculously accurate, more accurate than any other theory in any other discipline, by a big margin. While some of your “laws” like Newtons laws of motion break completely if you simply start to move too fast… ---
**Author:** ![elitatwo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elitatwo/32/373473_2.png) [@elitatwo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/elitatwo)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2017, 4:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-what-is-the-counter-balance-for-this/31804/57 "2017-10-18T16:41:05Z")
Another fun fact: You are standing in Time’s Square tomorrow at 1pm local time. It is not possible for you to stand in front of the Eifel Tower in Paris at the same time. Yet in EVE you are Jita, QC-YX6, Tama, Amarr, LEK-N5, LXQ2-T and J220234 at the same time, making bajillions while you more or less attentive in Delve and blobb someone in Jita. ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2017, 5:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-what-is-the-counter-balance-for-this/31804/58 "2017-10-18T17:14:14Z")
Another fun fact: If you look to the sky, there are no spaceships. Yet in EVE there are spaceships everywhere and they are even moving like submarines. Really makes you think ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_C0ld](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/captain_c0ld/32/471894_2.png) [@Captain\_C0ld](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Captain_C0ld)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 3:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-what-is-the-counter-balance-for-this/31804/59 "2017-10-19T15:55:45Z")
Ok, I have a question here. Isn’t that the point of CODE? To clear HS of such fleets? Or are they just after easy targets? Anybody can kill a retriever or an autopilot indy at a gate, but how about this? It’s not like you don’t have the numbers both in pilots and ISK (James 315 keeps us very informed about CODE’s assets on MD). ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 4:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-what-is-the-counter-balance-for-this/31804/60 "2017-10-19T16:14:25Z")
> [@Keno\_Skir](#): > > The laws of physics actually suggest everybody is in multiple places at the same time. You dont need any physics to sound clever. You shed skin cells all the time, so there are pieces of you everywhere you have been. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-what-is-the-counter-balance-for-this/31804.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-what-is-the-counter-balance-for-this/31804.md?page=4)