# CCP what is the counter balance for this **URL:** \ **Category:** Warfare & Tactics\ **Created:** [October 16, 2017, 1:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-what-is-the-counter-balance-for-this/31804 "2017-10-16T01:53:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Marcus\_Luttrell\_Khan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/marcus_luttrell_khan/32/148357_2.png) [@Marcus\_Luttrell\_Khan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Marcus_Luttrell_Khan)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 4:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-what-is-the-counter-balance-for-this/31804/61 "2017-10-19T16:34:33Z")
> [@Captain\_C0ld](#): > > Ok, I have a question here. Isn’t that the point of CODE? To clear HS of such fleets? Or are they just after easy targets? Hypothetically, yes. However, imagine the tank and DPS needed to blow up that many Orcas in one location that are likely a part of a fleet. ---
**Author:** ![Keno\_Skir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/keno_skir/32/460582_2.png) [@Keno\_Skir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Keno_Skir)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 5:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-what-is-the-counter-balance-for-this/31804/62 "2017-10-19T17:43:08Z")
> [@Captain\_C0ld](#): > > Ok, I have a question here. Isn’t that the point of CODE? To clear HS of such fleets? Or are they just after easy targets? Well no not really. CODE. talk a lot about killing botters and stuff like that, but it’s all just roleplay. They like ganking folks and enjoy the butt-hurt it brings out in the populous. Don’t drink the koolaid and start thinking CODE. has anything at all to do with botting or AFK play 😛 > [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > You dont need any physics to sound clever. I wasn’t trying to “sound clever” i was just making a passing comment about physics since it was brought up. ---
**Author:** ![CowRocket\_Void](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cowrocket_void/32/189525_2.png) [@CowRocket\_Void](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CowRocket_Void)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 6:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-what-is-the-counter-balance-for-this/31804/63 "2017-10-19T18:58:58Z")
> [@Giddy\_McFee](#): > > You cannot use smartbombs in high sec anyways. **LOL** > **[zKillboard.com / Related Kills | Misneden | 2011-05-15 17:00](https://zkillboard.com/related/30002665/201105151700/)** > > A battle took place in Misneden (Sinq Laison) involving 11 pilots who lost a total of 1,808,406,341.74 isk ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Kemp](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bruce_kemp/32/453413_2.png) [@Bruce\_Kemp](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bruce_Kemp)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 11:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-what-is-the-counter-balance-for-this/31804/64 "2017-10-20T11:51:18Z")
> **[zKillboard.com / Related Kills | Asgeir | 2013-11-12 14:00](https://zkillboard.com/related/30003384/201311121400/)** > > A battle took place in Asgeir (Metropolis) involving 16 pilots who lost a total of 2,798,160,950.23 isk ---
**Author:** ![Sarah\_Flynt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sarah_flynt/32/12578_2.png) [@Sarah\_Flynt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sarah_Flynt)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 5:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-what-is-the-counter-balance-for-this/31804/65 "2017-10-20T17:10:03Z")
btw: don’t get the impression that you’ll automatically get CONCORD’ed if you use smartbombs in highsec: If you only hit legal targets, CONCORD doesn’t care: > **[zKillboard.com / Related Kills | Jaschercis | 2013-10-31 01:00](https://zkillboard.com/related/30003029/201310310100/)** > > A battle took place in Jaschercis (Everyshore) involving 1 pilots who lost a total of 888,840,539.43 isk ---
**Author:** ![Blade\_Darth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/blade_darth/32/378598_2.png) [@Blade\_Darth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Blade_Darth)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 7:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-what-is-the-counter-balance-for-this/31804/66 "2017-10-20T19:57:40Z")
I guess they want to keep the 0.2 APM “activity” for the 90-year olds playing the game. ---
**Author:** ![Oovarvu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/oovarvu/32/287619_2.png) [@Oovarvu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Oovarvu)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2017, 3:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-what-is-the-counter-balance-for-this/31804/67 "2017-10-21T03:42:44Z")
Getting their mining ships ganked on a daily basis is what has driven the miners to the extremes of orca fleet mining in the first place. If the hi-sec gankers gave these people a rest once in a while we might not be where we are now. The bigger problem is going to be the lower skilled miners who can’t fly/afford orcas. They are going to be the only viable targets for the likes of code and if ganked enough may well just give up Eve and go elsewhere. Not something i imagine would please CCP. ---
**Author:** ![Haplo\_Shannow](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/haplo_shannow/32/272309_2.png) [@Haplo\_Shannow](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Haplo_Shannow)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 8:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-what-is-the-counter-balance-for-this/31804/68 "2017-10-25T08:50:50Z")
Okay so this is an interesting situation and almost everyone one here miss the point (or a point at least) so I’m going to try to assess the whole picture and give you my 2 cents. Orca’s are expensive. I don’t know what fit that guy is using but depending on that I think we can safely assume it’s around 850M each. That’s a huge amount of money from the standpoint of a high sec miner. I mean I’m not going to start calculating everything here but the amount of time an Orca has to mine in high sec to pay itself is definitely quite high. The direct result of this is that imagine that guy loses his fleet, he might be able to replace it but he’s not going to if he loses it let’s say once a week (pulling that out of my ass) because it won’t be beneficial for him. So now you need to look at your standpoint or the one of your corp/alliance. How much money is this guy taking away from you with his mining fleet. People here are talking about isk efficient fights and they’re right to say that you probably won’t be cost efficient in killing that fleet (except with huge numbers) but that’s not the point. If you’re removing this guy from your belts then it might be worth it (I mean I don’t know, your call). So in the end it’s not easy to kill but it’s doable. It will take some effort to gather a pretty big fleet of suicide gankers and might they 2 or 3 attempts depending on the wallet of this guy but in the end it’s an investment that may or may not pay off. That’s how you should think about it in my mind. ---
**Author:** ![Divad\_Mahdits](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/divad_mahdits/32/153442_2.png) [@Divad\_Mahdits](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Divad_Mahdits)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 6:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-what-is-the-counter-balance-for-this/31804/69 "2017-11-04T06:11:41Z")
Stop being a gay and stop trying to gank them. Join them or be left behind. Also all of the below. > [@Buggs\_LeRoach](#): > > CODE crying about miners … the cycle of tears is complete . > [@Durhur\_Atruin](#): > > I’m no economist, but in my mind more basic minerals = lower prices = easier to finance combat. Only people who suffer are people who are legitimately mining for profit. > [@Dirk\_Kajhone](#): > > Unless I misunderstand the process, bot-mining (or any mining) is not ISK creation. Mining extracts minerals, which are either sold to other players or used to manufacture items which are sold to other players. This only recirculates existing ISK. It even contributes to ISK sinking, since most of these processes have taxes/fees involved at some point which removes small percents of ISK from the game. > > If it isn’t ‘creating’ ISK then it isn’t driving inflation, in fact as others pointed out it makes things cheaper. Yes, in relative/competitive terms someone bot-ISKing to earn more ISK/hr than you can be seen as reducing your earning value/hr; in other ways they reduce your costs/hr by reducing prices (unless you are also a miner of course, in which case they directly out-compete you). > > Actual ISKflation is caused by things like AFK ratting, Incursions, and mission running, where actual new ISK is created by the game and injected into the player economy, rather than merely recirculating old ISK. So it’s the AFK ratters and the heavy mission-payout/pirate bounty players you want to look at if you are worried about who’s really ‘ruining’ the economy. > [@Oovarvu](#): > > Getting their mining ships ganked on a daily basis is what has driven the miners to the extremes of orca fleet mining in the first place. If the hi-sec gankers gave these people a rest once in a while we might not be where we are now. The bigger problem is going to be the lower skilled miners who can’t fly/afford orcas. They are going to be the only viable targets for the likes of code and if ganked enough may well just give up Eve and go elsewhere. Not something i imagine would please CCP. So suck it up and deal with it, or help the miners by not making them just targets. Without miners, you have nothing. No targets. No guns. No ships. No ammo. Nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Caleb\_Seremshur](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/caleb_seremshur/32/399348_2.png) [@Caleb\_Seremshur](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Caleb_Seremshur)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 2:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-what-is-the-counter-balance-for-this/31804/70 "2017-11-04T14:08:26Z")
You’re one of those people has such a little grasp on the reality of how many minerals are already in the game that you really think persecuting a few people here and there makes any appreciable impact on the production of assets. When B-5RB happened it took a matter of hours/days for prices to stabilise, despite the huge losses of minerals in terms of ships killed and minerals bought from the market. So stupid, every time I see this “stop killing us, we make the guns you use!” argument I die a little inside, as if you are anything more than a worker ant and that killing you is done with any more consideration than wiping excrement from a boot. ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 2:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-what-is-the-counter-balance-for-this/31804/71 "2017-11-04T14:17:02Z")
> [@Divad\_Mahdits](#): > > Stop being a gay and stop trying to gank them. Wow, typical miner ---
**Author:** ![Abyss\_Azizora](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/abyss_azizora/32/15938_2.png) [@Abyss\_Azizora](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Abyss_Azizora)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 1:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-what-is-the-counter-balance-for-this/31804/72 "2017-11-05T01:13:46Z")
> [@Buggs\_LeRoach](#): > > CODE crying about miners … the cycle of tears is complete . It is rather amusing. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Pestilen\_Ratte](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pestilen_ratte/32/42087_2.png) [@Pestilen\_Ratte](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pestilen_Ratte)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 4:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-what-is-the-counter-balance-for-this/31804/73 "2017-11-05T04:51:50Z")
> [@Sarah\_Flynt](#): > > As your camp doesn’t get tired to stress how basically any action in this game is PVP, let me suggest a very obvious PVP counter: out-mine him. And there it is. Eve Online is a mining sim. ---
**Author:** ![Divad\_Mahdits](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/divad_mahdits/32/153442_2.png) [@Divad\_Mahdits](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Divad_Mahdits)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 6:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-what-is-the-counter-balance-for-this/31804/74 "2017-11-05T06:02:06Z")
I find it cute how you think that just because somebody makes a comment like mine, that I’m just and only a miner. Go ahead and look for me in the killboards and then try to say that again. > [@Ima\_Wreckyou](#): > > Wow, typical miner See above. Stop assuming, and have understanding for other people outside of your own selfishness. ---
**Author:** ![Caleb\_Seremshur](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/caleb_seremshur/32/399348_2.png) [@Caleb\_Seremshur](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Caleb_Seremshur)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 12:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-what-is-the-counter-balance-for-this/31804/75 "2017-11-05T12:44:34Z")
> **[Divad Mahdits | Character](https://zkillboard.com/character/94514012/)** > > Divad Mahdits: 195 ships destroyed and 106 ships lost. I don’t know if I’d be bragging. ---
**Author:** ![Divad\_Mahdits](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/divad_mahdits/32/153442_2.png) [@Divad\_Mahdits](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Divad_Mahdits)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 1:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-what-is-the-counter-balance-for-this/31804/76 "2017-11-05T13:08:39Z")
So do you see any mining ships? ---
**Author:** ![Caleb\_Seremshur](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/caleb_seremshur/32/399348_2.png) [@Caleb\_Seremshur](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Caleb_Seremshur)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 2:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-what-is-the-counter-balance-for-this/31804/77 "2017-11-05T14:05:41Z")
Why on earth would i expect to see mining ships? Is it normal to die in them? ---
**Author:** ![Penance\_Toralen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/penance_toralen/32/244089_2.png) [@Penance\_Toralen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Penance_Toralen)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 8:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-what-is-the-counter-balance-for-this/31804/78 "2017-11-06T08:51:34Z")
lazy as usual. the fleet is using augmented ice drones. 50mil a pop, purchase price in Jita. and orcas can only field one ice drone, not a flight. 50m3 bandwidth. now about that not being economical someone was crying about. the better solution is that a buddy suicides in a ECM AOE, griffin. Second pilot flying in a vexor and starts scooping as a many expensive drones as possible. before the orcas can slow boat to scoop the non-responsive drones. its how its done with excavator drones. counter supplied, you’re welcome. ---
**Author:** ![Divad\_Mahdits](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/divad_mahdits/32/153442_2.png) [@Divad\_Mahdits](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Divad_Mahdits)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2017, 12:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-what-is-the-counter-balance-for-this/31804/79 "2017-11-06T12:25:39Z")
That sounds like a waste of time, tsk tsk tsk ---
**Author:** ![Fiddly\_Pop](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fiddly_pop/32/18062_2.png) [@Fiddly\_Pop](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fiddly_Pop)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 6:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-what-is-the-counter-balance-for-this/31804/80 "2018-01-12T18:15:13Z")
> [@Penance\_Toralen](#): > > the better solution is that a buddy suicides in a ECM AOE, griffin. Second pilot flying in a vexor and starts scooping as a many expensive drones as possible. before the orcas can slow boat to scoop the non-responsive drones. its how its done with excavator drones. never thought of that, thanks [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-what-is-the-counter-balance-for-this/31804.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-what-is-the-counter-balance-for-this/31804.md?page=5)