# CCPLS just make the exploration covops ships the same for all races **URL:** \ **Category:** PvE Ships & Modules\ **Created:** [November 7, 2023, 2:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccpls-just-make-the-exploration-covops-ships-the-same-for-all-races/426733 "2023-11-07T14:48:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Nijushiho](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/doctor_nijushiho/32/385189_2.png) [@Doctor\_Nijushiho](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Doctor_Nijushiho)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 2:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccpls-just-make-the-exploration-covops-ships-the-same-for-all-races/426733/1 "2023-11-07T14:48:55Z")
I want to fly the Cheetah. I love the Winmatar look. But for some reason, the Cheetah is handicapped compared to the Helios as are all of the other Tech II covops ships. Why I think that: - I want rigs that assist with data and relic hacking - not engineering/fitting - I want to fit both data and relic modules, a 5mn MWD, and a cargo scanner in the back - I want to fit inertials in the lows until I am sub 3 secs. - Gotta have the nullifier, sisters launcher, and cloak up top. For some reasons, only the Helios is capable of being fit this way without implants or some other sort of garbage engineering slot use. Here’s what I do with a Helios - although someone more ethical could replace the cargo scanner with another scanning rig to help them if they wanted: [Helios, Simulated Helios Fitting] Nanofiber Internal Structure II Inertial Stabilizers II Inertial Stabilizers II Scan Pinpointing Array I PL-0 Scoped Cargo Scanner Coreli A-Type 5MN Microwarpdrive Data Analyzer II Relic Analyzer II Sisters Core Probe Launcher Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Interdiction Nullifier II Small Emission Scope Sharpener I Small Memetic Algorithm Bank I Same thing on a Cheetah fails powergrid by 1.3. [Cheetah, Explo-Cheetah] Inertial Stabilizers II Inertial Stabilizers II Inertial Stabilizers II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Relic Analyzer II Data Analyzer II Cargo Scanner II 5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive Sisters Core Probe Launcher Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Interdiction Nullifier II Small Emission Scope Sharpener I Small Memetic Algorithm Bank I The stupid Buzzard runs out of powergrid after just this: [Buzzard, \*Simulated Buzzard Fitting] Coreli A-Type 5MN Microwarpdrive Data Analyzer II Sisters Core Probe Launcher Interdiction Nullifier II Covert Ops Cloaking Device II The Anathema can do the fitting, but it’s a second slower on align time. [Anathema, \*Simulated Anathema Fitting] Inertial Stabilizers II Inertial Stabilizers II Inertial Stabilizers II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Coreli A-Type 5MN Microwarpdrive Data Analyzer II Relic Analyzer II PL-0 Scoped Cargo Scanner Sisters Core Probe Launcher Interdiction Nullifier II Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Small Memetic Algorithm Bank I Small Emission Scope Sharpener I My conclusion: These ships are not just balanced differently - they are unbalanced. Each one of them does the exact same thing. They are different for no reason, because there is no alternative purpose for which you would use one over the other except for aesthetics. There’s no reason they don’t have the same slot layout, the same cargo, the same performance, the same engineering specs. ---
**Author:** ![Vuhdo\_Rin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vuhdo_rin/32/378868_2.png) [@Vuhdo\_Rin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vuhdo_Rin)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 3:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccpls-just-make-the-exploration-covops-ships-the-same-for-all-races/426733/2 "2023-11-07T15:13:29Z")
you cant fit every ship you like to ! otherwise i can say i want to have all BS the same ! does not make sense … fit your ship you have to fit it that it works or chose another ship that will work ! nobody needs 4 ships if all of them are the same … ---
**Author:** ![TR09N](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tr09n/32/479710_2.png) [@TR09N](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/TR09N)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 3:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccpls-just-make-the-exploration-covops-ships-the-same-for-all-races/426733/3 "2023-11-07T15:37:52Z")
Cheetah is already the best exploration covops lol ---
**Author:** ![Vokan\_Narkar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vokan_narkar/32/326293_2.png) [@Vokan\_Narkar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vokan_Narkar)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2023, 4:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccpls-just-make-the-exploration-covops-ships-the-same-for-all-races/426733/4 "2023-11-08T04:10:10Z")
> [@Doctor\_Nijushiho](#): > > There’s no reason they don’t have the same slot layout, the same cargo, the same performance, the same engineering specs. There is. A racial/empire “stereotype”. They shouldn’t be the same. If you really want to fly Cheetah, then you just will with some compromises. If you want maximal efficiency then fly Helios. The choice is there, I see no problem. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2023, 9:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccpls-just-make-the-exploration-covops-ships-the-same-for-all-races/426733/5 "2023-11-08T09:52:53Z")
> [@Doctor\_Nijushiho](#): > > Each one of them does the exact same thing. No ? It’s a tool, you use them however you want. If you are scanning in your own hole, why bother with escape mecanism when you can scan from tether ? Scan strength, speed and deviation are your need. The goal is not to do the same thing. It is, to provide different tools, able to perform in similar situations, but with different constraints. And just like tools, they come in different shapes and form. One knife for bread, one for seashells, one for meat, one for butter . CCPlease MAKE LESS KNIVES THEY ARE THE SAME. ---
**Author:** ![J\_Spacewoman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/j_spacewoman/32/393499_2.png) [@J\_Spacewoman](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/J_Spacewoman)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2023, 6:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccpls-just-make-the-exploration-covops-ships-the-same-for-all-races/426733/6 "2023-11-08T18:47:21Z")
They all look the same with the cloak activated, problem solved ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Nijushiho](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/doctor_nijushiho/32/385189_2.png) [@Doctor\_Nijushiho](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Doctor_Nijushiho)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2023, 10:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccpls-just-make-the-exploration-covops-ships-the-same-for-all-races/426733/7 "2023-11-09T22:57:20Z")
I understand the racial differences between most ships and the tradeoffs between using them. I just don’t understand why covert ops ships for caldari and minmatar are hobbled as they are for exploration. What reason would there be other than following the pattern of other ships to give them lower PG when they need that to do exploration? If someone can point to an ability that the Buzzard or Cheetah have that their differing stats give them that makes the difference make sense, then TIL. But right now, the balance seems to be between appearance and capability. ---
**Author:** ![Lesican](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lesican/32/448285_2.png) [@Lesican](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lesican)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2023, 11:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccpls-just-make-the-exploration-covops-ships-the-same-for-all-races/426733/8 "2023-11-09T23:34:17Z")
> [@Doctor\_Nijushiho](#): > > If someone can point to an ability that the Buzzard or Cheetah have that their differing stats give them that makes the difference make sense, the cheetah is amazing at moving fast under cloak, a couple of overdrives and you can get some great pvp warpins for people ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Nijushiho](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/doctor_nijushiho/32/385189_2.png) [@Doctor\_Nijushiho](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Doctor_Nijushiho)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2023, 12:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccpls-just-make-the-exploration-covops-ships-the-same-for-all-races/426733/9 "2023-11-10T12:21:19Z")
> [@Lesican](#): > > the cheetah is amazing at moving fast under cloak, a couple of overdrives and you can get some great pvp warpins for people Thanks. If it were given more powergrid, would that imbalance the ship in the lineup and give it some capability the Helios or Anathema lack that would then have people asking to boost those ships? ---
**Author:** ![Vuhdo\_Rin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vuhdo_rin/32/378868_2.png) [@Vuhdo\_Rin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vuhdo_Rin)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2023, 12:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccpls-just-make-the-exploration-covops-ships-the-same-for-all-races/426733/10 "2023-11-10T12:29:46Z")
why do you need any personal boost ? oO no ship has to fit everything you want … you want an all in one ship → then go and take a look which ship can do your task ! as i didnt start fitting scanning ships to show you how you could fit your ship then find a ship that makes the job you want ! so… your helios maybe ! fly it or not but dont come to forum and yell that YOUR favorit ship needs to be buffed ! ---
**Author:** ![WhamyKablamy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whamykablamy/32/386793_2.png) [@WhamyKablamy](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/WhamyKablamy)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2023, 4:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccpls-just-make-the-exploration-covops-ships-the-same-for-all-races/426733/11 "2023-11-11T04:10:39Z")
> [@Doctor\_Nijushiho](#): > > Same thing on a Cheetah fails powergrid by 1.3. > > [Cheetah, Explo-Cheetah] > Inertial Stabilizers II > Inertial Stabilizers II > Inertial Stabilizers II > Nanofiber Internal Structure II > > Relic Analyzer II > Data Analyzer II > Cargo Scanner II > 5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive > > Sisters Core Probe Launcher > Covert Ops Cloaking Device II > Interdiction Nullifier II > > Small Emission Scope Sharpener I > Small Memetic Algorithm Bank I I’m a bit confused why you wouldn’t just drop the Nanofiber Internal Structure II and put in an aux power core. You’ve still got a faster align time than the Helios, a faster base speed, just marginally slower with the same MWD active. It seems like you’re making a meal out of nothing here. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Nijushiho](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/doctor_nijushiho/32/385189_2.png) [@Doctor\_Nijushiho](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Doctor_Nijushiho)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2023, 5:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccpls-just-make-the-exploration-covops-ships-the-same-for-all-races/426733/12 "2023-11-11T05:18:44Z")
> [@WhamyKablamy](#): > > You’ve still got a faster align time than the Helios, a faster base speed, just marginally slower with the same MWD active. It doesn’t align faster than the Helios. For align time, the server ticks are in seconds, so 2.5 secs is the same as 2.98. They are both three second align times. Or it may round down. I can’t remember which, but it’s the same nonetheless. But your point about the powercore is well taken. The weakness is still midslots. ---
**Author:** ![Vuhdo\_Rin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vuhdo_rin/32/378868_2.png) [@Vuhdo\_Rin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vuhdo_Rin)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2023, 10:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccpls-just-make-the-exploration-covops-ships-the-same-for-all-races/426733/13 "2023-11-11T10:07:18Z")
> [@Doctor\_Nijushiho](#): > > 2.5 secs is the same as 2.98. if you know this why you still have ne nanofiber fittet ? more velocity ? why is this important oO > [@Doctor\_Nijushiho](#): > > The weakness is still midslots. but you have everything you want oO so why can this be a weakness if you get everything you wish Oo dude … you looks like just a dude who cames to forum and the only reason why you write a thread is because you want to cry about YOUR situation and that CCP are refuses YOUR gameplay and YOU are not toleratet and YOU are always the one who needs to adapt and nobody else … calm down little girl and find a solution ( which was not that hard as we all can see ) ---
**Author:** ![Moko\_Musana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/moko_musana/32/373694_2.png) [@Moko\_Musana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Moko_Musana)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2023, 11:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccpls-just-make-the-exploration-covops-ships-the-same-for-all-races/426733/14 "2023-11-11T11:16:54Z")
> [@Doctor\_Nijushiho](#): > > I just don’t understand why covert ops ships for caldari and minmatar are hobbled as they are for exploration. > > What reason would there be other than following the pattern of other ships to give them lower PG when they need that to do exploration? They don’t and aren’t. The Buzzard is _the_ best exploration ship because it has most mid slots, which means most scanning bonuses … or most tackle if covops dropping is a thing. It’s lack of powergrid can be overcome by installing an auxilliary power unit. All the other frigates can also install an APU , but there’s nothing they can do to improve their scanning performance to the level of a buzzard. If the buzzard had no “obligation” to waste a low for an APU, it would be blatantly overpowered against the others, therefore the others got more PG. > [@Doctor\_Nijushiho](#): > > [Buzzard, \*Simulated Buzzard Fitting] > > Coreli A-Type 5MN Microwarpdrive > Data Analyzer II > > Sisters Core Probe Launcher > Interdiction Nullifier II > Covert Ops Cloaking Device II There’s 3 spare mids and 3 spare lows in that fit. A Buzzard doesn’t need a deadspace MWD, it needs scan upgrades, and if it wants to hack stuff instead of just discovering it, it needs a relic analyzer or a module that can act as one, too. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2023, 11:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccpls-just-make-the-exploration-covops-ships-the-same-for-all-races/426733/15 "2023-11-11T11:25:09Z")
> [@Moko\_Musana](#): > > it needs a relic analyzer or a module that can act as one, too. the fit has a data analyzer, I guess you can swap it in space with a depot. Though in that case why even show it on the fit ? ---
**Author:** ![Moko\_Musana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/moko_musana/32/373694_2.png) [@Moko\_Musana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Moko_Musana)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2023, 11:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccpls-just-make-the-exploration-covops-ships-the-same-for-all-races/426733/16 "2023-11-11T11:27:12Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > Though in that case why even show it on the fit ? Because it was explicitly listed on the other fits, too. EDIT: there’s also no need to swap the module in space as long as the other mids aren’t used. Or are the scanning upgrades and the shield extender so obvious that they don’t need to be listed, either? ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2023, 11:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccpls-just-make-the-exploration-covops-ships-the-same-for-all-races/426733/17 "2023-11-11T11:33:11Z")
I meant, if you use a depot, then you have a fit to scan, and a fit to hack (and a travel fit). No point in having a data analyzer on a scanning fit. ---
**Author:** ![WhamyKablamy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whamykablamy/32/386793_2.png) [@WhamyKablamy](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/WhamyKablamy)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2023, 11:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccpls-just-make-the-exploration-covops-ships-the-same-for-all-races/426733/18 "2023-11-11T11:44:09Z")
> [@Doctor\_Nijushiho](#): > > It doesn’t align faster than the Helios. For align time, the server ticks are in seconds, so 2.5 secs is the same as 2.98. They are both three second align times. Or it may round down. I can’t remember which, but it’s the same nonetheless. > > But your point about the powercore is well taken. The weakness is still midslots. It still has a faster align time. That’s how the stat is listed in the fitting window. Which is what I was clearly referencing rather than saying it aligns a tick faster. The midslots wasn’t part of your original argument either. You said: > [@Doctor\_Nijushiho](#): > > - I want rigs that assist with data and relic hacking - not engineering/fitting > - I want to fit both data and relic modules, a 5mn MWD, and a cargo scanner in the back > - I want to fit inertials in the lows until I am sub 3 secs. > - Gotta have the nullifier, sisters launcher, and cloak up top. Swapping in an aux power core does exactly that. Different ships have different stats and fitting capability. That’s how Eve works. If you want a ship that is the best for scanning down, then train and build one that can achieve that. If you want a ship that is perfectly capable of scanning down sites but you can also use to be zoomies while cloaked, you’ve got the Cheetah. ---
**Author:** ![Moko\_Musana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/moko_musana/32/373694_2.png) [@Moko\_Musana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Moko_Musana)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2023, 12:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccpls-just-make-the-exploration-covops-ships-the-same-for-all-races/426733/19 "2023-11-11T12:41:24Z")
If it’s a fit dedicated to hacking, and nothing other then hacking, then what’s with that microwarp? It doubles the killmail value, will likely be scramed down before the buzzard can engage it anyways, provides no significant speed bonus over a meta variant, and doubles the ISK price of the fit. If it’s about the signature bonus, it’s almost irrelevant to a quad-lif that is priced three orders of magnitude lower. Also, Sensor Boosters with ECCM scripts will have more effect in reducing signature, SBs are way less expensive then the deadspace MWD, and multiple SBs can be engaged concurrently to increase the effect. Ah, before I forget, having more mid slots then the other covops, the Buzzard can take more SBs then the other covops, too. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2023, 12:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccpls-just-make-the-exploration-covops-ships-the-same-for-all-races/426733/20 "2023-11-11T12:52:47Z")
I’m not saying his fit was good. I was saying, you can swap the data with a relic. Also remember that the SB don’t work past sensorstr=sigradius. [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccpls-just-make-the-exploration-covops-ships-the-same-for-all-races/426733.md?page=2)