# CCP's botting excuse for the market changes is false **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 12, 2020, 12:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379 "2020-03-12T12:52:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 3:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/47 "2020-03-12T15:47:16Z")
It was a helpful answer. Im not really arguing, just trying to figure out why this change has people so upset. ---
**Author:** ![Shaigh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shaigh/32/430164_2.png) [@Shaigh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shaigh)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 3:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/48 "2020-03-12T15:50:19Z")
True, but I’m in the expensive skin markets, so that won’t work for me… Every change is now excruciating… Lol… ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 3:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/50 "2020-03-12T15:51:31Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > They leave any link between the two as an implication rather than a statement. You meant opinion/assumption ? > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > I personally don’t have a good feel for whether this will work out good or bad yet - I don’t trade much. I do, just for the sake of the salt on the forum 😃 I agree with you that if it’s bad, they will likely change it. But this needs to be running for a few months at first. So maybe people who can’t accept to adapt will have left until then … or adapted. > [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > but harming the playstyle of a large group of players is definitely a big deal. Indeed. > [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > And, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume they didn’t. lol ? This kind of change had been asked for years. Just like the warp speed increase. They thought out many of the issues that were present with the propositions, and actually at the same time fixed the “margin trading”. They are removing bot-behavior from players, which means the game is healthier for the players (less of an addiction to small actions that give you a random reward). They are balancing the players structure market. They are like killing three bird with a a kitchen stone. > [@Shaigh](#): > > I’ve been playing the markets for almost two years now and have never encountered a single bot making market changes… Absence of proof is not the proof of the absence. > [@Shaigh](#): > > I think the real reason for this Tinfoil hat !!! WEAR IT !! > [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > So, maybe botting wasn’t actually something bad enough that CCP had to make the changes. But, many players thought market bots were so prevalent, that CCP felt compelled to make the change. Where exactly did CCP say that their goal was to prevent bots ? > [@Trololol\_Sisjan](#): > > i can’t find any real “0.01 isk bot”, and that kind of bot must be really complicated, > so i have real doubts about existence of that kind of bot Or you’re just VERY bad. > [@Trololol\_Sisjan](#): > > (and i am software dev i know that ■■■■) BS. It’s completely trivial matter to do, once you have the bricks to make it (interact with window). > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Im not really arguing, just trying to figure out why this change has people so upset. What’s your question actually ? When you place an order, it has an internal order ID. If you modify it, and/or people complete a part of it, the order appears as changed on the next market tick (30s for ingame, 5 min for ESI or something like that). ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 3:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/52 "2020-03-12T15:53:15Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Small traders don’t have the capital to just chuck something on the market and come back in 3 months How small are we talking here? Anything I cant sell to corp or allies gets put on like that, only difference is I dont bother updating it at all. If it sells, cool, if not its still dumpable. ---
**Author:** ![Shaigh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shaigh/32/430164_2.png) [@Shaigh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shaigh)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 3:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/53 "2020-03-12T15:54:16Z")
Oh, sorry… I’m in the big skin markets, so every little change is now extremely painful… ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 3:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/54 "2020-03-12T15:55:26Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > What’s your question actually ? > > When you place an order, it has an internal order ID. If you modify it, and/or people complete a part of it, the order appears as changed on the next market tick (30s for ingame, 5 min for ESI or something like that). I guess its actually that I need to compare starting a new order over modifying an existing one now, and see which is cheaper. It makes no sense if changing it is more expensive than placing it ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 4:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/55 "2020-03-12T16:00:35Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > It makes no sense if changing it is more expensive than placing it It’s not. The additional cost is a part of the broker fee, that you pay when setting your order. It’s always better to update rather than remove and recreate, unless you intend to split your stack by … 5? 10 ? ---
**Author:** ![Shipwreck\_Jones](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shipwreck_jones/32/274382_2.png) [@Shipwreck\_Jones](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shipwreck_Jones)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 4:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/56 "2020-03-12T16:00:40Z")
Well, they didn’t. They only gave us a few sentences to speculate on (the second post has a link to the dev blog), which some people are interpreting as meaning that they did it to fight bots. So, I don’t know. Could be the case. Could be security theater. Could be something else entirely. > These changes will positively impact the market, and better support fair competitive trade between players. Once again, the commitment to fighting botting in all its forms in EVE is absolutely firm, and moving forward with these changes means that the market and the player behavior involved will be closely monitored once these changes are live and in your hands. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 4:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/58 "2020-03-12T16:03:22Z")
> [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > They only gave us a few sentences to speculate on No. They gave your their point of view. That you want it to mean something else, only talks about you. If then you reach the conclusion that “this makes no sense”, then most likely you were wrong somewhere in your assumptions. “From wrong, you can deduce anything” ---
**Author:** ![Shaigh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shaigh/32/430164_2.png) [@Shaigh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shaigh)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 4:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/59 "2020-03-12T16:05:40Z")
That’s exactly right… The problem is that once you place it, any change will be a significant loss…so the intent is that you intelligently place the order… The problem is that once you place it, subsequent undercutting orders have the potential to keep your order there until it expires, thus incurring a significant loss regardless… ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 4:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/60 "2020-03-12T16:08:09Z")
Stop 0.1in an hav som fun with (s)killin now? 🤔 ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 4:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/61 "2020-03-12T16:08:44Z")
It was my understanding that the new charges got larger the more you relist? Edit: even if not, it still sounds like large ticket slow movers should remain in contracts ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 4:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/62 "2020-03-12T16:09:41Z")
No, they add up. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 4:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/64 "2020-03-12T16:12:35Z")
Sorry, Im not following you. Do you mean the fees add up? Increasing the cost of relisting the order, I should have said, I guess. I just thought what they charged you increased in percent each time. ---
**Author:** ![Shaigh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shaigh/32/430164_2.png) [@Shaigh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shaigh)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 4:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/65 "2020-03-12T16:15:35Z")
That’s true…any change is now a significant loss… So the intent is for players to smartly place it, leave it, and not change it… I don’t believe that this about bots or automated market order changers, but rather to stop players from laying on their orders to keep them on top… ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 4:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/66 "2020-03-12T16:17:53Z")
> [@Shaigh](#): > > That’s true…any change is now a significant loss… Even compared to making a new identical order, though? ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 4:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/67 "2020-03-12T16:20:49Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Do you mean the fees add up? If your broker fee is 1%, you’ll have to pay at least 0.25% of the new order price (time the remaining volume) each relist. You place 50 item at 200 isk SO. You pay 1% broker, so 50 × 200 × 1 /100 = 100isk. THEN you update it to 150 isk : you pay 50 × 150 × 0.25 / 100 = 18.75 isk. THEN you update it to 100 isk : you pay 50 × 100 × 0.25 / 100 = 12.5 isk. Now you sell your batch : you get 50 × 100 = 5 000isk , you pay a part in tax (3% ?) ; and you PAID to broker 100 + 18.75 + 12.5 isks ---
**Author:** ![Shaigh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shaigh/32/430164_2.png) [@Shaigh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shaigh)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 4:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/68 "2020-03-12T16:21:19Z")
A new order is going to cost the same in fees… It’s changing it after it has been placed that is going to be costly…even with the new advanced broker skills trained… ---
**Author:** ![QuakeGod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quakegod/32/480339_2.png) [@QuakeGod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/QuakeGod)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 4:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/69 "2020-03-12T16:22:51Z")
Set your prices right the first time and you won’t have to change them… ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 4:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/70 "2020-03-12T16:23:01Z")
Yeah, I get that too, Im saying that presumably there is a point when thhe cost of changing it alone becomes higher than just listing a new stack, yeah? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379.md?page=4)