# CCP's botting excuse for the market changes is false **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 12, 2020, 12:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379 "2020-03-12T12:52:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Shipwreck\_Jones](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shipwreck_jones/32/274382_2.png) [@Shipwreck\_Jones](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shipwreck_Jones)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 4:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/71 "2020-03-12T16:23:27Z")
Always a pleasure talking with you. ---
**Author:** ![Tihsall](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tihsall/32/191815_2.png) [@Tihsall](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tihsall)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 4:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/72 "2020-03-12T16:23:50Z")
I’ve been trading off and on for years. I’ve seen some behaviour that definitely looks bot-like to me. But then, hard to tell from our end between a bot and a somewhat obsessed person who has decided to make “always having their order on top” their life’s goal. Just going to let my current trades expire and observe the trading for a month or so before I decide if I want to continue selling things, or just shift my trading time over to exploration or something. No idea yet if this is good or bad, but at least it’s different. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 4:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/73 "2020-03-12T16:23:54Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Yeah, I get that too, Im saying that presumably there is a point when thhe cost of changing it alone becomes higher than just listing a new stack, yeah? No. It’s like you get fined for every step you take. It adds up, even though each fine is affordable. If your job is too far, it’s most expensive to go to office than to not do anything. ---
**Author:** ![Abdullah-Sekir-Bashka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/abdullah-sekir-bashka/32/182573_2.png) [@Abdullah-Sekir-Bashka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Abdullah-Sekir-Bashka)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 4:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/74 "2020-03-12T16:24:58Z")
> [@Gowa\_Hyasyoda](#): > > Eve online life cycle achieved. Good luck to you all. Your Stuff PLEASE? ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 4:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/75 "2020-03-12T16:27:11Z")
This is a highly abstract reply, Anderson. If listing a stack costs 100isk, how many times can I change it before the fees for changing it alone add up to more than 100? ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 4:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/76 "2020-03-12T16:31:48Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > This is a highly abstract reply, Anderson. Yeah but you don’t understand the rigorous one, so I thought an image could explain the mechanism. The answer to your question was “No.” You should stick with this answer. > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > If listing a stack costs 100isk, how many times can I change it before the fees for changing it alone add up to more than 100? With max skills, if you relist it for the same exact price, 4 relists cost you as much as placing the SO. That means that whatever you do, if you cancel an order to place it again, you’ve lost 4 times as much as you would have done by relisting it. ---
**Author:** ![Shaigh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shaigh/32/430164_2.png) [@Shaigh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shaigh)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 4:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/77 "2020-03-12T16:32:57Z")
That’s CCP’s intent, but I don’t think it’s going to work out that way… My feeling is that no matter what price you place it at, every new order will undercut it and potentially keep it there until it expires…thus taking the loss of having to repost the order again… Now the reality is that the market activity has been steadily going down while sellers have been tanking markets just to make sales… I believe that this change will result in everyone low-balling their sales to avoid their orders expiring in place… We’ll see what happens… ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 4:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/78 "2020-03-12T16:35:38Z")
Yeah, thats exactly what I thought. Thanks for confirming it. Sorry, Im not much good with maths tbh, thats why I bludgeon my way in the market, if I cant sell on the internal one, that is. Your “no” confused me because I realise I was inaccurate with my phrasing. ---
**Author:** ![Buoytender\_Bob](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/buoytender_bob/32/374377_2.png) [@Buoytender\_Bob](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Buoytender_Bob)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 5:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/80 "2020-03-12T17:01:45Z")
Don’t know if this is CCP’s version of " we had to destroy the village to save the village" or more like using a shotgun to get rid of a rat infestation. The market did have some issues, but ii appears that CCP went overboard with some of their changes. Unlike Blackout, I hope CCP is more closely monitoring the situation and willing to more readily change some values/mechanics on a more timely basis. Still would like a blog from Team Security to see if they had any input to the changes and the current condition of the market from their point of view prior to ( and eventually a couple weeks post) changes. Are these changes any more challenging than those made with the mining and ratting nerfs? ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 5:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/81 "2020-03-12T17:05:02Z")
> [@Gowa\_Hyasyoda](#): > > Eve online life cycle achieved. Good luck to you all. Pretty sure I’ve seen a number of posts from you along the lines of “If you don’t like this feature of EVE, just move along and find something else to do, adapt, try other activities, do something you enjoy. It’s all part of the game.” I guess it’s always easier to say things like that when it’s somebody else’s playstyle being impacted. ---
**Author:** ![Shaigh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shaigh/32/430164_2.png) [@Shaigh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shaigh)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 5:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/82 "2020-03-12T17:09:46Z")
No problem… I’m partly venting because I know that this change is going screw me over royally…which has unfortunately taken the wind out of my sails with this game now… I guess my peaceful existence in it is over… Lol… ---
**Author:** ![Shaigh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shaigh/32/430164_2.png) [@Shaigh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shaigh)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 5:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/84 "2020-03-12T17:18:08Z")
That’s how I played the game… I started from scratch and build a pretty good skin empire for myself as a solo player… It’s now turned into PvCCP for me with the a lot of skin markets being destroyed by the recent CCP skin givaways, putting alot of skins up cheap in the store, and making detrimental market changes like this one… Hope they change it back to the way it was… I guess they will wait to see what happens with it… ---
**Author:** ![Scarlet\_Starfire](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scarlet_starfire/32/244125_2.png) [@Scarlet\_Starfire](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scarlet_Starfire)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 5:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/85 "2020-03-12T17:29:55Z")
> [@Shaigh](#): > > CCP has based their crippling market changes on an “assumption” that frequent and .01 increment order changes are being automated… With all my 0.01 isk market trading over the years that I have done, there was only once I thought a character might have been a bot and even that wasn’t conclusive. So I have to wonder where all these market bots are hiding. So R.I.P. the old market, whatever with the new one. ---
**Author:** ![Sarn\_Melkan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sarn_melkan/32/163863_2.png) [@Sarn\_Melkan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sarn_Melkan)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 5:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/87 "2020-03-12T17:44:22Z")
> [@Shaigh](#): > > This is simply not true and they have no evidence to support it… He said without any evidence… \thread ---
**Author:** ![Shaigh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shaigh/32/430164_2.png) [@Shaigh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shaigh)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 5:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/88 "2020-03-12T17:44:28Z")
> [@Buoytender\_Bob](#): > > Are these changes any more challenging than those made with the mining and ratting nerfs? Yeah, the nerfs seem like it’s more about CCP’s bottom line and not to improve the player experience… I personally think that it’s a mistake to make things more difficult in this game which hurts the retention of new players and subscriptions… It makes more business sense to make the game easier to succeed in instead of making it more difficult, IMO… ---
**Author:** ![Shaigh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shaigh/32/430164_2.png) [@Shaigh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shaigh)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 6:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/89 "2020-03-12T18:03:40Z")
> [@Sarn\_Melkan](#): > > He said without any evidence… \thread It’s in their description of the changes at the top of this thread… CCP said that market changes were being bot automated upon frequent .01 market changes… That’s simply not true… There is an army of players in this game who spend their entire day laying on their orders making frequent .01 changes… Players, who did not want to spend their play time competing with it, complained to CCP that the markets were being botted… This is really a veiled attempt to stop players from laying on their market orders all day long and making it extremely difficult for anyone else to sell in those markets… ---
**Author:** ![Trololol\_Sisjan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/trololol_sisjan/32/179809_2.png) [@Trololol\_Sisjan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Trololol_Sisjan)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 6:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/90 "2020-03-12T18:04:33Z")
> [@Abdullah-Sekir-Bashka](#): > > Your Stuff PLEASE? usually containers disappear in 2 hrs (but if you beg good enough…) ---
**Author:** ![Trololol\_Sisjan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/trololol_sisjan/32/179809_2.png) [@Trololol\_Sisjan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Trololol_Sisjan)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 6:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/91 "2020-03-12T18:06:27Z")
> [@Shaigh](#): > > Players, who did not want to spend their play time competing with it people who did not want to compete in FW asked to disable warp stabs… people who did not want to compete in \_\_\_\_\_ asked to disable \_\_\_\_ ---
**Author:** ![Trololol\_Sisjan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/trololol_sisjan/32/179809_2.png) [@Trololol\_Sisjan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Trololol_Sisjan)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 6:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/92 "2020-03-12T18:08:04Z")
you dont need to proof “absence” (unless your major is “gender studies”) ---
**Author:** ![Xuxe\_Xu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuxe_xu/32/464660_2.png) [@Xuxe\_Xu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuxe_Xu)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 6:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/93 "2020-03-12T18:12:01Z")
The tear-stained faces of anguish: _ **CCP HAS DESTROYED THE .01-ISK GAME!!!** _ 😮 😱 😭 😭 😭 😭 Me: [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/1/c/1c798288351afbc973c6688c388db550a3bcfc74.png "source: imgur.com")](https://imgur.com/hijpQXi) [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379.md?page=5)