# CCP's botting excuse for the market changes is false **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 12, 2020, 12:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379 "2020-03-12T12:52:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 9:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/136 "2020-03-12T21:21:47Z")
> [@Joia\_Crenca](#): > > But going back to the thread, if the real purpose of the changes had been to combat botting in favor of players Which was not formulated anywhere like that. So, strawman. > [@Joia\_Crenca](#): > > The new massive tax on changes has already been demonstrated to favor bots BS. Stupid affirmation were told, like “bots are better than players therefore this modification favors bots”, but nothing serious. So, you’re full of ■■■■, but then what new ? ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 10:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/138 "2020-03-12T22:44:24Z")
> [@Joia\_Crenca](#): > > ‘1 item order’ their way in front every minute of the day Who cares if they do. They crash their profits. Market PvP is no longer about 0.01 isk wars but about setting smart price points on your product and picking something that moves with the right volume. Not to mention how much they lose in broker fees listing all the items that don’t sell at the higher prices… and if they do sell then so did yours so you didn’t have to engage in a price war. It now requires a lot more skill, as it should. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 10:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/139 "2020-03-12T22:45:55Z")
How is selling tiny stacks any different from 0.01 isk’ing? ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 10:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/140 "2020-03-12T22:50:56Z")
Because 0.01 isking moves the entire stack to the new price. Selling tiny stacks has plenty of potential to leave most of them sitting still and not moving if you try engaging in a price war. It also means if you only list 5 and I want 50, I buy the next 45 items from other people as well, spreading out who I buy from. All in all it creates a healthier market, if people stop doom and glooming over it. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 10:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/141 "2020-03-12T22:52:51Z")
Yeah. I am only one uneducated opinion, but I _seriously_ doubt that these particular changes will lead to a healthier market. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 10:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/142 "2020-03-12T22:52:57Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > All in all it creates a healthier market, if people stop doom and glooming over it. It’s not doom and gloom. It’s pure white salt. > [@Xeux](#): > > but I _seriously_ doubt You don’t. So far, all the concerns expressed about market health have been complete stupidity(non relisters are more impacted than relisters!), off-topic(bots will still be better than human so this won’t prevent bots), strawmen(CCP claimed this will prevent bots) or plain lies (this will make 2 relisting remove your margin). I mean, it’s safe to assume it will create issues, but assuming it will create serious issues without any correct expression of those is like believing that earth is a square (which is fine) and telling people they must believe you(which is not) ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 10:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/143 "2020-03-12T22:57:16Z")
I’m not saying the changes will kill the market - I’m just saying that I don’t think it will make them healthier than they were before. As I suggested, I don’t really know much about the Eve market. I just have a _feeling_ that adding a bunch of taxes and fees doesn’t usually fix things. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 11:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/144 "2020-03-12T23:00:51Z")
> [@Xeux](#): > > I just have a _feeling_ that adding a bunch of taxes and fees doesn’t usually fix things. Depends on what you are talking about. There is no general idea that taxes are bad, otherwise government would remove them. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 11:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/145 "2020-03-12T23:01:20Z")
That made me chuckle. ---
**Author:** ![QuakeGod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quakegod/32/480339_2.png) [@QuakeGod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/QuakeGod)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 11:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/146 "2020-03-12T23:04:41Z")
I’m just here for the salt. And this update has made market traders saltier than the Dead Sea… ---
**Author:** ![QuakeGod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quakegod/32/480339_2.png) [@QuakeGod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/QuakeGod)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 11:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/147 "2020-03-12T23:10:13Z")
![First Time](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/2/428819b4bbf6a7446fe55ba509e91c1ef5889745.png) ---
**Author:** ![Cypr3ss\_Deteis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypr3ss_deteis/32/392947_2.png) [@Cypr3ss\_Deteis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypr3ss_Deteis)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 11:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/148 "2020-03-12T23:41:39Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I’m curious why you ingored the tweet from a CCP dev about banning them though. That seems like pretty conclusive proof that market bots exist. Well that seems fairly obvious to me, it’s because it makes hard to say things like: > [@Trololol\_Sisjan](#): > > yea… “it is not my stupid fantasy without proofs, they are evil RULES” and > [@Trololol\_Sisjan](#): > > oh yea. proofs like “i looked on the market, and heard voices in my head” when there is _actual_ **verifiable** proof of the thing you’re trying to claim doesn’t exist. 🙂 Regards, Cypr3ss. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 11:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/149 "2020-03-12T23:44:06Z")
When the guy’s name is literally Trol, you might not want to take him seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Cypr3ss\_Deteis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypr3ss_deteis/32/392947_2.png) [@Cypr3ss\_Deteis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypr3ss_Deteis)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 11:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/150 "2020-03-12T23:45:06Z")
This is true, and I very nearly edited my post to point this out… but you beat me to it! 🙂 Regards, Cypr3ss. ---
**Author:** ![Sarn\_Melkan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sarn_melkan/32/163863_2.png) [@Sarn\_Melkan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sarn_Melkan)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 12:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/151 "2020-03-13T00:04:49Z")
> [@Shaigh](#): > > CCP said that market changes were being bot automated upon frequent .01 market changes… That’s simply not true… > [@Sarn\_Melkan](#): > > He said without any evidence… \thread CCP doesnt denie, that there are also players doing it. But its well known, that it is easy to bot and people are abusing it, so they changed the mechanic to something, where you need alot more brain to adjust your orders. ---
**Author:** ![Cypr3ss\_Deteis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypr3ss_deteis/32/392947_2.png) [@Cypr3ss\_Deteis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypr3ss_Deteis)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 12:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/152 "2020-03-13T00:28:36Z")
> [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > moving forward with these changes means that the market and the player behavior involved will be closely monitored once these changes are live and in your hands. See I took this to mean that _prior_ to this change they had no ability to monitor the market and/or player interactions with the market, but once the changes are live they will do… which seems kinda crazy, but does not rule it out. Regards, Cypr3ss. ---
**Author:** ![Shipwreck\_Jones](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shipwreck_jones/32/274382_2.png) [@Shipwreck\_Jones](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shipwreck_Jones)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 1:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/153 "2020-03-13T01:02:12Z")
Well, they have banned a bunch of market bots before, and they provided stats concerning how often trades got updated, so I would think that they have had the ability to monitor the market all along. So, I interpreted what they said in the devblog to mean that they’re going to keep a close eye on things so that they can make adjustments if needed. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 5:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/155 "2020-03-13T05:03:36Z")
> [@Gowa\_Hyasyoda](#): > > As much as I hate these market changes and I think it will destroy the economy and harm most of the player base, !remindme 4 months “Has the economy been destroyed yet?” ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 5:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/157 "2020-03-13T05:21:18Z")
> [@Gowa\_Hyasyoda](#): > > they don’t want having too much because they are the ones who will have to pay for it themselves. That doesn’t make any sense. Remember, buying PLEX is not buying ISK from CCP, it’s paying CCP for another player’s ISK. If CCP nerfs everyone’s income then who exactly is giving you ISK for the PLEX you buy? PLEX prices will go down, and everything else on the market will go down as well. You end up with the same economy, just with smaller numbers for everything. No, the actual goal here is exactly what CCP said: remove bots and bot-like gameplay where mindless repetition of a menial task is the best way to succeed. Now sales and profit are based on smart use of the market, not merely being at your PC as many hours a day as possible so you can continuously adjust your prices by 0.01 ISK to keep up with everyone else. Some people will thrive in the new system, some people will screw up and throw away all their profit on change fees, and some people will just say “screw it” and sell everything to the highest open buy order. And that’s how it should be. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 5:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/159 "2020-03-13T05:47:43Z")
> [@Gowa\_Hyasyoda](#): > > CCP wants us to Pay 2 Play yes, but not so we can reach our goals of never having to pay to play ever again. Going to pull this out of the wall of text because it’s so utterly wrong. CCP loves PLEX sales because buying 30 days of game time via PLEX costs more than buying it with a credit card. Every time someone gets enough ISK that they can convince another player to pay $20 for PLEX to trade for that ISK instead of paying $15 to subscribe directly CCP wins. Opposition to having lots of people PLEXing their accounts would only make sense if PLEX was an item you could buy on the market, not exclusively in the cash store, and that’s not the case in EVE. > To a bot it just simply means a reduction in a margin they didn’t need to work for anyways but now the work actual players do is worth less which means the bots will still have more value than actual players. You’re confusing two different kinds of bots: combat PvE farming bots selling loot, and market bots that do nothing but update buy/sell orders 23/7. The goal is not to nerf the bots farming nullsec anomalies, it’s to remove the bots that sit in Jita 23/7 making 0.01 ISK price changes as fast as possible. And those market bots have ceased to exist with this change. There is no longer any point in having a market bot, the buy/sell order update rate is now slow enough that a human can do it without gaining any benefit from a bot. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379.md?page=6) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379.md?page=8)