# CCP's botting excuse for the market changes is false **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 12, 2020, 12:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379 "2020-03-12T12:52:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Nicen\_Jehr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicen_jehr/32/388048_2.png) [@Nicen\_Jehr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicen_Jehr)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 5:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/160 "2020-03-13T05:48:48Z")
The [devblog](https://www.eveonline.com/article/q67fqo/broker-relations) says: > The intent behind these upcoming changes is to support a healthy and live open market, allowing competition to remain fair between players. Only one word in that sentence has anything to do with bots. Even the ingame tooltip says: > SCC regulations aimed at reducing market volatility mandate a cost for relisting… ---
**Author:** ![Chunky\_Puffs](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chunky_puffs/32/261818_2.png) [@Chunky\_Puffs](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chunky_Puffs)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 8:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/162 "2020-03-13T08:33:14Z")
You can call it as you see it, but the result is that it kills market trading as a playstyle, one that has been for ages. It is one of the core activities of some. Practically destroying the game fora big part of its active players. Its like cutting the leg becasue it has a scratch on it. Until CCP delivers a logic design for their decision, the only viable truth is that they want more money from users or who is in charge of economy design is not an EvE player and does all of these rookie mistakes. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 9:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/163 "2020-03-13T09:28:58Z")
> [@Karol\_Godula](#): > > May as well stop playing… Can I have your stuff? I think this is a fabulous change to get rid of the 0.01 changes. That always was an extremely stupid mechanic. I’m not sure why some people think this is the end of trading though. The market will adapt just without the stupid pointless 0.01 changes. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 12:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/164 "2020-03-13T12:36:38Z")
> [@Gowa\_Hyasyoda](#): > > TLDR anyone who has to sit their an 0.01 ISK all day is an actual slave by definition in a rigged market that makes sure that no matter how hard you try you are struggling to produce the minimal results in a market designed to only leave you scraps Just so you know, actual traders and trade guides from the people who make billions, hundreds of billions and even trillions on the market essentially all tell you to abandon the .01 ISKing to the bots and the crazy people who indulge in it. “Know your market, package and price your orders properly, post them and leave them” is the most typical advice. (PS: When you need to start conjuring armies of bots with ‘infinite sources’ of ISK, products etc. to support your argument, you know you’ve let your passion run away from your reason. Suck it up, buttercup. Which is exactly what you would have told anyone else writing about some CCP change to _their_ cash flow or playstyle.) ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 12:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/165 "2020-03-13T12:38:51Z")
> [@Gowa\_Hyasyoda](#): > > If everyone in game can produce enough ISK to always buy PLEX for their subscriptions who will be spending their real money on PLEX to sell for ISK they don’t need? Everyone? Remember that inflation is a thing. If everyone is making tons of ISK then prices go up until you’re right back to where you started. You can make 100 million ISK/hour vs 10 million ISK/hour, but the price of the thing you want will just go from 1 billion ISK to 10 billion ISK. And the people who buy PLEX now will continue to do it. > As for bots, are they not connected? Because they are two separate bots with two separate effects on the game and two separate counter-botting strategies. Removing 0.01 ISK market botting is just like (hypothetically) increasing NPC aggro against drones to nerf combat PvE botting. You wouldn’t complain that the drone change doesn’t deal with market botting, so why bring PvE botting into a discussion of anti-botting strategies in a market context? > the market bot can still be used to set up sales and relist at lower prices Except the point is that you don’t want to do this. Change fees will rapidly destroy your income, so the frequency of changes is very low and a bot is redundant. You aren’t going to be modifying orders by 0.01 ISK every 5 minutes 23 hours a day anymore. > [@Chunky\_Puffs](#): > > but the result is that it kills market trading as a playstyle Nope. It just makes market trading be about smart play, understanding the market, and seizing opportunities instead of literally nothing more than an ISK reward for sitting at your PC as many hours a day as possible to do constant 0.01 ISK adjustments. Smart market players will still make tons of ISK. ---
**Author:** ![Joia\_Crenca](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/joia_crenca/32/291897_2.png) [@Joia\_Crenca](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Joia_Crenca)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 5:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/167 "2020-03-13T17:30:37Z")
I don’t have to agree with everything written in the post in order to appreciate a well thought-out and expressed post like this one. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 5:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/168 "2020-03-13T17:33:29Z")
i agree with Karen, nicely expressed post, Gowa 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Karol\_Godula](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karol_godula/32/391303_2.png) [@Karol\_Godula](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karol_Godula)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 7:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/169 "2020-03-13T19:12:47Z")
Well you have no clue how station trading works… ---
**Author:** ![Rabbit\_Antollare](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rabbit_antollare/32/191509_2.png) [@Rabbit\_Antollare](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rabbit_Antollare)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 8:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/170 "2020-03-13T20:12:20Z")
Since when is a tax actually bad for a government, LOL! ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 8:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/171 "2020-03-13T20:34:53Z")
> [@Karol\_Godula](#): > > Well you have no clue how station trading works… I’m the guy who always increased in the upper digits on purpose just to trigger 0.01 people like you. I think I will be fine. I see no problem with people like you gone from the market. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 8:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/172 "2020-03-13T20:49:33Z")
![zjriLYC](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/e/9/e903151c33d9991d996e440a5e339bab3a130e59.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2020, 12:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/173 "2020-03-14T00:28:26Z")
> [@Gowa\_Hyasyoda](#): > > Sorry, I guess it isn’t technically nerfing other types of bots, it just means they must operate longer to produce the same results for requires costs/losses to continue doing the end result of their business which is ultimately trading products on the market others bots produce for them. I think you are very confused about how the bots in question work. We aren’t talking about end-to-end botting where a fully automated account produces stuff and then sells it on the market, the market bots in question are purely market bots. They do nothing but update buy/sell orders to compensate for the fact that an actual player can’t be at their PC 23/7. The actual production is still done by human players, so they can’t just eat the massive losses of frequent price updates. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2020, 12:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/175 "2020-03-14T00:44:40Z")
> [@Gowa\_Hyasyoda](#): > > How can you be sure they can’t program a bot to set up industry or even make deliveries to trade hubs? I can’t. But that’s getting into an entirely separate kind of botting. And if you want to fully automate the process there’s no reason to get into 0.01 ISK wars, just sell your stuff to the highest buy order ASAP. The 0.01 ISK market bots only exist when someone cares about maximizing their sale prices. > If players can still afford to relist their sales at a limited amount, so can bots. But, again, the incentive to use a bot at all is gone. You don’t need a bot to set a price and modify it once every month at most, you only need the bot if you have to make constant 0.01 ISK adjustments to keep your market position. That entire mechanic is gone now. ---
**Author:** ![Chunky\_Puffs](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chunky_puffs/32/261818_2.png) [@Chunky\_Puffs](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chunky_Puffs)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2020, 1:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/177 "2020-03-14T13:02:02Z")
I admit removing the 0.01isk mechanic might be healthy in the end. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2020, 1:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/178 "2020-03-14T13:26:20Z")
And maybe it will actually be bad. We can’t say, but we can say that CCP has the balls to test changes that important. filaments, BO, cyno change, ore change, reworking the moons… You can’t know how good it will be unless you try it. Sure changes hurt people, but 100% of successful idea have started with a “let’s try this”. ---
**Author:** ![Trololol\_Sisjan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/trololol_sisjan/32/179809_2.png) [@Trololol\_Sisjan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Trololol_Sisjan)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 3:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/179 "2020-03-16T15:12:08Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > > > I’m curious why you ingored the tweet from a CCP dev about banning them though. That seems like pretty conclusive proof that market bots exist. > > Well that seems fairly obvious to me, well that is only the proof you cant think logically/ 2 years ago someone wrote something. if they have the way to detect bots, they can ban bots and solve the problem. BUT THEY ARE NOT DOING IT. hundreds of Youtube videos of “mining bots”, “vni ratting bots” and “autopilot jump to zero to gate bots” and no any single valid “market bots videos”. only some of “hey i am trying to sell something but Evil Bot cuts my price, i swear” ---
**Author:** ![Trololol\_Sisjan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/trololol_sisjan/32/179809_2.png) [@Trololol\_Sisjan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Trololol_Sisjan)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 3:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/180 "2020-03-16T15:14:47Z")
> [@Chunky\_Puffs](#): > > I admit removing the 0.01isk mechanic might be healthy in the end. yea minus 10000 active players, who cares… ---
**Author:** ![Trololol\_Sisjan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/trololol_sisjan/32/179809_2.png) [@Trololol\_Sisjan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Trololol_Sisjan)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 3:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/181 "2020-03-16T15:17:58Z")
> [@Gowa\_Hyasyoda](#): > > How can you be sure they can’t program a bot to set up industry or even make deliveries to trade hubs? What part of this is only possible if you are a human? If they program bots to go mining and ratting I am pretty sure there isn’t much a player can do that a bot cannot also be programmed to do. so your only proof is “BECAUSE I THINK SO!!!” right? ok, go to Jita, put Buy order for Tritanium. after that please create script, which calculates +0.01 price and changes price for your order ok? how much time do you need? (next thing i am going to ask - create script for Tritanium AND Morphite) ---
**Author:** ![Sordina1](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sordina1/32/158264_2.png) [@Sordina1](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sordina1)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 3:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/183 "2020-03-16T15:42:33Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > If you want to pretend **they exist** , feel free, but it’s just going to undermine any point you try to make. Fixed that for you. Right now, there is no legitimate proof that there where huge amount of market bots. CCP can claim many things. Just because someone is .01 you all day long doesn’t mean he is a bot. And as far I remember, whole fight over market bots started only because players cried. Not because any data. It’s not about how hard is to create script but how many orders are actually run by scripts. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 3:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379/184 "2020-03-16T15:47:16Z")
Have we established that CCP truly does want to get rid of bots? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379.md?page=7) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-botting-excuse-for-the-market-changes-is-false/225379.md?page=9)