# (Champions) of the Abyss - Results **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [October 28, 2020, 3:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/champions-of-the-abyss-results/276540 "2020-10-28T15:12:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Gustav\_Mannfred](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gustav_mannfred/32/392828_2.png) [@Gustav\_Mannfred](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gustav_Mannfred)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2020, 3:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/champions-of-the-abyss-results/276540/1 "2020-10-28T15:12:29Z")
Since there is no discussion topic on that here: [https://www.eveonline.com/article/qivufi/champions-of-the-abyss-the-results?origin=launcher&utm\_medium=app&utm\_source=launcher&utm\_content=en](https://www.eveonline.com/article/qivufi/champions-of-the-abyss-the-results?origin=launcher&utm_medium=app&utm_source=launcher&utm_content=en) From the last few days of the 2nd Cruiser 2v2: > **[Moa | Fast arrow Arji | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/87662850/)** > > Fast arrow Arji (Dreddit) lost their Moa in Pney (ADR01). Final Blow by Cable Uta (V0LTA) flying in a Stabber. Total Value: 11,867,317.14 ISK > **[Bellicose | Herr Kolobok | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/87660317/)** > > Herr Kolobok (State War Academy) lost their Bellicose in Unsfgrvaa (ADR03) Total Value: 10,898,778.11 ISK > **[Rupture | MC Purge | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/87658937/)** > > MC Purge (Function Zero) lost their Rupture in Fgrir (ADR03). Final Blow by Roxane Barviainen (This Game Is Terrible) flying in a Caracal. Total Value: 11,384,794.53 ISK > **[Moa | sellinurl00t | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/87658668/)** > > sellinurl00t (Science and Trade Institute) lost their Moa in Znex (ADR05). Final Blow by NeedsToBeReal (Pride of Lions) flying in a Caracal. Total Value: 11,846,650.00 ISK > **[Stabber | Stervenok | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/87657301/)** > > Stervenok (School of Applied Knowledge) lost their Stabber in Fgrira (ADR04). Final Blow by Altaen (SoE Roughriders) flying in a Vexor. Total Value: 12,641,848.26 ISK > **[Moa | Asuka Kasenumi | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/87643698/)** > > Asuka Kasenumi (Rauta Consulting) lost their Moa in Wbanguna (ADR02). Final Blow by Tepkuh (SOBR GROUPS) flying in a Omen. Total Value: 11,960,493.07 ISK You find similar things on the BC 2v2, the Slicer 3v3 and the free for alls, and in timezones with less activity during more popular events such as the frig 1v1. How do you feel about that many people massqueued with alts in empty ships to farm the hell out of the abyss to get top ranks on the leaderboard, while also ruining the event for people that were looking to get a real fight(and that were playing fair)? How do you feel that these people get rewards from CCP for that? I am speakless… really! Congratulations for all those who made it to the top 10 with their farming efforts. Sad for those who played fair and did not queue up with a dozen or a houndred alts to get top ranks. I mean… why did CCP do nothing on that? This should have been declared as an exploit and the people abusing this should have been disqualified from the event. This is not fair for those who do not own houndreds of alts or that play fair. I was speaking to the CSM regarding that too. I am now even more angry that the great cruiser 1v1 room is gone, this one never had things like that happen. I did not do much of these new proving grounds, but even with a full weekend invested into them, there was barely any chance to get even to the top 100 of anevent, because some people have nothing better to do than feeding alts. This gave not only the winners of the event an advantage, it also gave an unfair advantage for other parties that were playing fair - free win without fight. Yeah, let me know what you think… Sad that the old proving grounds had to go for something that makes it easy to farm with alts and CCP encouraging that. That event was an absolute joke! I am sorry for beeing a bit salty, but I have to get rid of that. I hope CCP learns from that and looks a bit better on the events in the future. 1. Repeat this event under fair conditions, anyone that colludes should get disqualified 2. Fix Pochven 3. Bring back the old Cruiser 1v1 room at the end of Abyssal PVE sites ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2020, 4:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/champions-of-the-abyss-results/276540/2 "2020-10-28T16:09:02Z")
> [@Gustav\_Mannfred](#): > > why did CCP do nothing on that? Because they don’t care. ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2020, 4:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/champions-of-the-abyss-results/276540/3 "2020-10-28T16:09:52Z")
Is this the list of people we need to gank for _extra_ tears? > [@Gustav\_Mannfred](#): > > not fair Welcome to EVE ONLINE! \*_steals your cookie and laughs about your for bringing one in the first place\*_ ---
**Author:** ![Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhalyd_lyehin/32/358574_2.png) [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhalyd_Lyehin)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2020, 6:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/champions-of-the-abyss-results/276540/4 "2020-10-28T18:04:14Z")
Why didn’t you bring more alts? After all, this Abyssal crap was intended to be a material sink and it was intended to make it so that people create more alts. What else did you expect than to get ripped off by this? Enjoyable gameplay? ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/e/5/e5d14acc850873a0d0134d2f8e923433c621f508.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2020, 7:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/champions-of-the-abyss-results/276540/5 "2020-10-28T19:30:11Z")
> [@Gustav\_Mannfred](#): > > How do you feel about that many people massqueued with alts in empty ships to farm the hell out of the abyss to get top ranks on the leaderboard, while also ruining the event for people that were looking to get a real fight(and that were playing fair)? You wanted pvp that is a joke. You got pvp that is a joke. ---
**Author:** ![Nora\_Maldoran](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nora_maldoran/32/399985_2.png) [@Nora\_Maldoran](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nora_Maldoran)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2020, 10:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/champions-of-the-abyss-results/276540/6 "2020-10-28T22:57:51Z")
> **[The Grinders of the Abyss](https://thegreybill.com/2020/10/28/the-grinders-of-the-abyss/)** > > I’m sad. Continue Reading → ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2020, 11:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/champions-of-the-abyss-results/276540/7 "2020-10-28T23:46:18Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > You wanted pvp that is a joke. You got pvp that is a joke. Brutal! 😃 > [@Gustav\_Mannfred](#): > > get a real fight(and that were playing fair)? Mate, these two don’t go together. You either want a real fight or you want a fair fight. ---
**Author:** ![Gustav\_Mannfred](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gustav_mannfred/32/392828_2.png) [@Gustav\_Mannfred](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gustav_Mannfred)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2020, 9:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/champions-of-the-abyss-results/276540/8 "2020-10-29T09:09:49Z")
> [@Solstice\_Projekt](#): > > Mate, these two don’t go together. > You either want a real fight or you want a fair fight. but wasnt that the idea of these arenas? That you get fair fights? What I mean by playing fair is that you dont queue up with a dozen alts in 10 different teams in order to get matched up against those. When another team gets matched up with these throw away ships all the time, they dont find it funny as they might enter the arena to get a fight and not to farm wins ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2020, 9:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/champions-of-the-abyss-results/276540/9 "2020-10-29T09:26:23Z")
> [@Gustav\_Mannfred](#): > > but wasnt that the idea of these arenas? That you get fair fights? No, Gustav. I don’t even know where you’d get that idea from. I mean, sure, I do … because that’s what you expect … but that’s not how this works here. That’s not even how _real life_ works, but lots of effort is being put into making it look like it. “Fairness” and “Honour” aren’t beneficial traits when it comes to surviving. I’ll try explaining it to you, but I’m not sure I can pull that off: Welcome to EVE ONLINE. The idea of the arenas was to _make money for CCP_ and increase the numbers of accounts logged in, not to get anti-sandboxers into the game in masses. I also believe that they’re using these proving grounds to train their NPC AI for combat, but that’s besides the point. Most people in general in EVE dislike the idea of PvP arenas, because it’s completely anti-EVE due to the instanced nature of the beast. That’s really a huge problem for this game and the players generally don’t appreciate it. Interestingly enough is that one of the rare things where we can see PvE and PvP players agree on something. EVE is a jungle and runs on the laws of nature. The only fair thing about it is that it’s equally unfair for everyone. The smarter or stronger wins over the others. The “cheating” part people keep talking about is not actually cheating at all … at least not around here. It’s people using alts to play the game, just like they always did. CCP has and always will be treating every single capsuleer as independent entity, so they can’t possibly try preventing people from gaming the system. That would be _unfair_, especially when there’s the _(actually not so low)_ possibility of someone finding fifty friends to pull it off without alts, but usually people just use alts so they don’t have to share the profits of whatever it is they’re trying to achieve. I’ve seen lots of people warn about how the rules allow for gaming the system and how it should be expected to be gamed, yet - apparently - arena players don’t listen to the word of reason and prefer to stay inside their fantasy bubble of honour and fairness, _which both have zero basis in the real world_. “Nature” doesn’t know “fairness” or “honour”, which is why those who are “playing fair” usually are crap competitors outside of artificial scenarios like arenas. The funny thing is that, if CCP had enforced some kind of alt-rules … _(ignoring that such a thing simply isn’t possible because alts could as well just be friends)_ … … **then you would have gained an unfair advantage over others** who have friends capable of pulling this off. When there’s people who outwit you by using alts or friends, then your mistake was not anticipating it and doing it yourself as well. From within the context of EVE ONLINE you’ve been beaten fair and square … you just had no idea that such a perspective even exists. You guys never had a chance to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Quaan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lucas_quaan/32/372581_2.png) [@Lucas\_Quaan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lucas_Quaan)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2020, 9:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/champions-of-the-abyss-results/276540/10 "2020-10-29T09:36:39Z")
> [@Gustav\_Mannfred](#): > > Bring back the old Cruiser 1v1 room at the end of Abyssal PVE sites Seeing as the new arenas involved an order of magnitude more players than the old pve rooms, I think it’s clear to CCP which feature to continue developing. Not saying that the new arenas were perfect, but they made the feature accessible to a lot more people than the old one. ---
**Author:** ![Gustav\_Mannfred](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gustav_mannfred/32/392828_2.png) [@Gustav\_Mannfred](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gustav_Mannfred)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2020, 10:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/champions-of-the-abyss-results/276540/11 "2020-10-29T10:49:16Z")
I mean, they could have kept the old cruiser 1v1 room and still added the new filaments, idk where the problem is with having both, especially since there are weeks between these events. I know, the old one was not that easy accessible, but it prevented the collusion problem which happened en masse with the new filaments. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2020, 1:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/champions-of-the-abyss-results/276540/12 "2020-10-29T13:42:07Z")
And why does it matter if they farm wins? What do they get? ---
**Author:** ![Gustav\_Mannfred](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gustav_mannfred/32/392828_2.png) [@Gustav\_Mannfred](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gustav_Mannfred)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2020, 2:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/champions-of-the-abyss-results/276540/13 "2020-10-29T14:49:53Z")
They get the rewards and the top spots in the leaderboars. From the begin on the design was not good at all. It should have been an elo based leaderboard, so that people with RL have had a realistic chance to get to the top spots too ---
**Author:** ![Abyssal\_Hawk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/abyssal_hawk/32/340421_2.png) [@Abyssal\_Hawk](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Abyssal_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2020, 4:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/champions-of-the-abyss-results/276540/14 "2020-10-29T16:10:17Z")
So, are you saying CCP gave nearly 1000$ to people that deliberately abused the system? C’mon CCP, you can do better! Why did you not listen to the warnings we gave, that there are people that want to abuse the system? I hope that CCP disqualifies these peoples in the future from such events if they do that. This happened in the AT, there are strict rules everyone has to follow, why not for these events too? People that dont have time to grind 24/7 have no realistic chance to get to the top 100. And some people make it even harder with unfit ships? ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2020, 7:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/champions-of-the-abyss-results/276540/15 "2020-10-29T19:23:23Z")
> [@Gustav\_Mannfred](#): > > They get the rewards and the top spots in the leaderboars. Be more specific. Assume i never gave two fecks about a BS feature and never read the rewards, What exactly do they get? And why would anyone care about them getting the top spots on an obviously phoney leaderboard? > [@Abyssal\_Hawk](#): > > So, are you saying CCP gave nearly 1000$ to people that deliberately abused the system? Gaming/abusing, doesn’t matter. CCP were aware of it and apparently even practiced it themselves during a stream. Obligatory: Welcome to eve. These players have not broken any rules. You’re all just pissed off that you didn’t have the willpower and knowhow to do it yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Succulent\_Succubi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/succulent_succubi/32/242516_2.png) [@Succulent\_Succubi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Succulent_Succubi)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2020, 5:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/champions-of-the-abyss-results/276540/16 "2020-10-30T05:11:58Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > And why would anyone care about them getting the top spots on an obviously phoney leaderboard? Of course people will care. It is not some ‘phoney leaderboard’, it was was official event organized by CCP. ---
**Author:** ![Gustav\_Mannfred](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gustav_mannfred/32/392828_2.png) [@Gustav\_Mannfred](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gustav_Mannfred)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2020, 12:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/champions-of-the-abyss-results/276540/17 "2020-10-30T12:10:44Z")
> [@Proving Grounds Gameplay Policy Update](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-grounds-gameplay-policy-update/276948): > > Hi everyone, It was very exciting for us to discover how players would engage with the new Proving Grounds feature introduced in the Zenith quadrant. Thanks to your enthusiastic participation we learned a lot in terms of what formats are most appealing, at what cadence we should hold events and the duration they should run for. This information is being incorporated into the Proving Grounds events for the Phoenix quadrant. We have also heard your feedback about some metagame issues surrounding… thank you for listening CCP 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2020, 2:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/champions-of-the-abyss-results/276540/18 "2020-10-30T14:04:59Z")
> [@Succulent\_Succubi](#): > > It is not some ‘phoney leaderboard’, It clearly is since people are thinking that the people in the top spots don’t deserve to be there. What could be more phoney than that? ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2020, 2:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/champions-of-the-abyss-results/276540/19 "2020-10-30T14:58:56Z")
> [@Succulent\_Succubi](#): > > ‘phoney leaderboard’ It’s a list of the best amongst the losers who can’t cut it outside of their special needs area … … except currently, where the top is a list of players who’ve outplayed everyone else. You could argue “it has value for the losers” … … and I’d totally agree … … but that doesn’t make them any less losers than they are. If there was actual meaning behind this leaderboard … … then people outside of that special needs group of yours … … would be acknowledging it. They don’t … … and the reason for that is pretty damn ■■■■■■■ obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Succulent\_Succubi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/succulent_succubi/32/242516_2.png) [@Succulent\_Succubi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Succulent_Succubi)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2020, 11:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/champions-of-the-abyss-results/276540/20 "2020-10-31T11:10:46Z")
Keep… …preaching… …brother! That pro bullying/tough guy narrative seems to make you really moist down there. Pretty much every single message full of it. I was just saying people care because it was official event… But i guess you somehow missed that and thought i said anything about how people participated in it. [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/champions-of-the-abyss-results/276540.md?page=2)