# Change how tether works in highsec for suspects and outlaws **URL:** \ **Category:** Assembly Hall\ **Created:** [April 18, 2021, 12:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-how-tether-works-in-highsec-for-suspects-and-outlaws/306440 "2021-04-18T12:46:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 12:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-how-tether-works-in-highsec-for-suspects-and-outlaws/306440/86 "2021-04-19T12:04:01Z")
And also when not manned, which is the point. > [@Oriki\_Ahvilen](#): > > It is not an NPC mechanism , as the owner has total freedom to choose who gets it or who doesn’t. But no player is actually taking the action of tethering. Actually no player can control the tethering directly. Which is the definition of non player mechanism : a mechanism that is not directly controlled by the player. > [@Oriki\_Ahvilen](#): > > The structure is not an NPC, it is anchored by players and it is their property , they paid for it , they anchored it , they have their corp logo on it . Unrelated. PC or NPC, the difference is only between who is directly controlling it. character or not character, the difference is only in the ability to take actions. So yes, the structure anchored is an NPC, for the sole reason that it takes actions out of direct player control. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 12:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-how-tether-works-in-highsec-for-suspects-and-outlaws/306440/87 "2021-04-19T12:05:30Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > And also when not manned, which is the point. That may be the point you’re trying to make, but I have not yet seen why an unmanned station should be a character. It’s just an object in space. And if it’s not a character, it’s not an NPC. ---
**Author:** ![Oriki\_Ahvilen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/oriki_ahvilen/32/395043_2.png) [@Oriki\_Ahvilen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Oriki_Ahvilen)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 12:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-how-tether-works-in-highsec-for-suspects-and-outlaws/306440/88 "2021-04-19T12:07:31Z")
We all know that we are controlling just pixels into this game . But there are nuances you fail to see . A pilot in a ship in space during warp it’s not an NPC , just because he can’t control his ship in the warp tunnel , for example. Cut off with this BS . ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 12:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-how-tether-works-in-highsec-for-suspects-and-outlaws/306440/89 "2021-04-19T12:13:28Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > Actually no player can control the tethering directly. Which is the definition of non player mechanism : a mechanism that is not directly controlled by the player. A warp bubble, once launched from the Interdictor, is not directly controlled by a player either. And it will then apply it’s effects on player ships by itself. Does that make warp bubbles NPCs? Or is it a non-player mechanism? ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 12:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-how-tether-works-in-highsec-for-suspects-and-outlaws/306440/90 "2021-04-19T12:38:32Z")
> [@Oriki\_Ahvilen](#): > > A pilot in a ship in space during warp it’s not an NPC , just because he can’t control his ship in the warp tunnel , for example. That’s unrelated. If your ship can take NO action then it’s not a character to start with. Still you can use dscan, activate modules while in warp. So it can still take actions, which means it’s still a character. Those actions are controlled by a player, so it’s a PC. > [@Oriki\_Ahvilen](#): > > Cut off with this BS . Likewise, cut off with being an idiot. > [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > A warp bubble, once launched from the Interdictor, is not directly controlled by a player either. And it will then apply it’s effects on player ships by itself. > Does that make warp bubbles NPCs? Or is it a non-player mechanism? Neither. It’s an effect, not an action taken - just like WS effects, or edencom/trig. The only action that is related is “launching it” which is a player action. So the launch of the bubble is PC mechanism, which produces a time-limited grid-limited AOE : everything is bubbled in the grid, and the bubble has no effect if too far or bubble immune. The destruction of the bubble when reaching EoL is not an action taken by the bubble, it’s outside of the scope of what entities can do (done at the grid management level - more on that [https://www.eveonline.com/news/view/fixing-lag-drakes-of-destiny-part-1-1](https://www.eveonline.com/news/view/fixing-lag-drakes-of-destiny-part-1-1)). So the **entity** bubble is … well an entity without any action doable, which applies an effect(grid wide bubble effect) once anchored, and removes that effect when destroyed - just like a fitted overdrive is just a location, that applies an effect when fitted, and removes that effect when unfitted, or a point is just a location, that applies an effect on the target when activated, and removes that effect when unactivated. Since there is no action to be taken, then there is no mechanism to start with. The only mechanism that are related to creation and removal of the entity (that is, resp. add the grid wide effect and remove it) are not taken by the probe but respectively by the player and the grid manager(=server). ---
**Author:** ![Oriki\_Ahvilen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/oriki_ahvilen/32/395043_2.png) [@Oriki\_Ahvilen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Oriki_Ahvilen)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 12:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-how-tether-works-in-highsec-for-suspects-and-outlaws/306440/91 "2021-04-19T12:55:03Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > If your ship can take NO action then it’s not a character to start with And yet , in those circumstances it is not empty , but boarded by a player. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > So it can still take actions, which means it’s still a character. Thanks for confirming exactly what I’ve already said. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 12:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-how-tether-works-in-highsec-for-suspects-and-outlaws/306440/93 "2021-04-19T12:57:42Z")
> [@Oriki\_Ahvilen](#): > > And yet , in those circumstances it is not empty , but boarded by a player. being boarded is irrelevant. The ability to take actions is what is relevant. > [@Oriki\_Ahvilen](#): > > Thanks for confirming exactly what I’ve already said. No, I actually said that you are wrong. Just because a piloted ship in warp is not an NPC, does not mean that a structure that is not controlled is not one. > [@Oriki\_Ahvilen](#): > > Since you have been personally attacking everyone here that had different opinions than you I have not. You were however insulting me by misinterpreting what I wrote and claiming it was BS. ---
**Author:** ![Oriki\_Ahvilen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/oriki_ahvilen/32/395043_2.png) [@Oriki\_Ahvilen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Oriki_Ahvilen)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 12:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-how-tether-works-in-highsec-for-suspects-and-outlaws/306440/94 "2021-04-19T12:58:58Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > I have not. You were however insulting me. Show me where I have insulted you , before you called me an idiot ? And that why ? Just because I shared a different opinion ? ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 12:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-how-tether-works-in-highsec-for-suspects-and-outlaws/306440/95 "2021-04-19T12:59:27Z")
> [@Oriki\_Ahvilen](#): > > Show me where I have insulted you , before you called me an idiot ? literally what I quoted. > [@Oriki\_Ahvilen](#): > > And that why ? Because you made personal attack. You would have just not posted that SECOND personal attack, we could have kept discussing in a civile way. ---
**Author:** ![Oriki\_Ahvilen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/oriki_ahvilen/32/395043_2.png) [@Oriki\_Ahvilen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Oriki_Ahvilen)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 1:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-how-tether-works-in-highsec-for-suspects-and-outlaws/306440/96 "2021-04-19T13:00:17Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > Because you made personal attack. Where ? ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 1:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-how-tether-works-in-highsec-for-suspects-and-outlaws/306440/97 "2021-04-19T13:00:51Z")
> [@Oriki\_Ahvilen](#): > > Where ? … > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > literally what I quoted. ---
**Author:** ![Oriki\_Ahvilen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/oriki_ahvilen/32/395043_2.png) [@Oriki\_Ahvilen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Oriki_Ahvilen)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 1:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-how-tether-works-in-highsec-for-suspects-and-outlaws/306440/98 "2021-04-19T13:01:34Z")
Where I don’t see it ? Can you tell the difference between: > **[before](https://www.thefreedictionary.com/before)** > > Definition, Synonyms, Translations of before by The Free Dictionary and > **[after](https://www.thefreedictionary.com/after)** > > Definition, Synonyms, Translations of after by The Free Dictionary ? ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 1:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-how-tether-works-in-highsec-for-suspects-and-outlaws/306440/99 "2021-04-19T13:08:08Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > Neither. It’s an effect, not an action taken - just like WS effects, or edencom/trig. > The only action that is related is “launching it” which is a player action. So the launch of the bubble is PC mechanism, which produces a time-limited grid-limited AOE : everything is bubbled in the grid, and the bubble has no effect if too far or bubble immune. And what makes stations any different? Anchoring one is a PC mechanism just like launching a bubble. And after that it applies the tether effect to any applicable ship within range, just like the bubble applies it’s ‘no warp’ effect on any applicable ship within range. I would say that neither the interdiction probes, nor stations are NPCs. Both are launched by players and both have effects on nearby ships, yet neither are characters taking actions. Unless the station gets manned, in which it _is_ capable of action, but also is very clearly player action and not NPC action. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 1:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-how-tether-works-in-highsec-for-suspects-and-outlaws/306440/100 "2021-04-19T13:18:55Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > And what makes stations any different? you mean structures. > [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Anchoring one is a PC mechanism just like launching a bubble. exactly. > [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > And after that it applies the tether effect to any applicable ship within range, just like the bubble applies it’s ‘no warp’ effect on any applicable ship within range. No. All ships whether or not they are in ACL are “applicable”. There is no property of being applicable or not from the ship that is tethered ; the choice to tether it or not is made solely by the structure. The action to apply tether or not is taken by the structure. > [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > yet neither are characters taking actions. In that case the rats are not NPC either. And concord is not NPC either. And pirat structures (fobs…) are not NPC either. > [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Unless the station gets manned, in which it _is_ capable of action, but also is very clearly player action and not NPC action. Yes ? When a structure is manned it’s partially directly controlled by a player. It’s not a problem ? ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 1:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-how-tether-works-in-highsec-for-suspects-and-outlaws/306440/101 "2021-04-19T13:44:47Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > In that case the rats are not NPC either. And concord is not NPC either. And pirat structures (fobs…) are not NPC either. Those ships are all taking actions and I would call them NPCs. (Not sure about pirate structures, are those manned or taking any actions?) After all, they are taking actions similar to players (attacking, locking, etc) but aren’t player characters. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > Yes ? When a structure is manned it’s partially directly controlled by a player. It’s not a problem ? _Partially_ directly controlled by a player? Why partially? Is your ship partially controlled by you? Or are you in full control of the actions? When a player is manning an upwell structure that structure is in full control of a player and thus a player character. If a structure is unmanned it is as much an NPC as a ship abandoned by a player in space is an NPC. It isn’t. It’s just an object in space, not a character. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 1:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-how-tether-works-in-highsec-for-suspects-and-outlaws/306440/102 "2021-04-19T13:57:27Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > After all, they are taking actions similar to players (attacking, locking, etc) but aren’t player characters. unrelated. targeted actions can be taken without targeting first. > [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > _Partially_ directly controlled by a player? Why partially? Tether still is not directly controlled. > [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Is your ship partially controlled by you? Or are you in full control of the actions? Drones are partially controlled. Drones being an extension of my ship, my ship is therefore partially controlled. > [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > When a player is manning an upwell structure that structure is in full control of a player and thus a player character. No . You are begging the question, but no. The player is still not controlling the tether. > [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > If a structure is unmanned it is as much an NPC as a ship abandoned by a player in space is an NPC. It isn’t. It’s just an object in space, not a character. No. I already explained why you are wrong, so I won’t repeat myself, just : you are wrong. A ship in space can’t take actions. A structure can. So the comparison is void. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 2:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-how-tether-works-in-highsec-for-suspects-and-outlaws/306440/103 "2021-04-19T14:03:07Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > No. I already explained why you are wrong, so I won’t repeat myself, just : you are wrong. In your opinion I’m wrong and in my opinion you are wrong. We won’t get anywhere with this useless sub discussion. So let’s go back to the main topic. Upwell structure tether is automatically provided to selected players. Whether you want to call the automation a player action or an NPC action, it has absolutely nothing to do with the crimewatch system and should apply to all players chosen by the station owner, and should not apply based on crimewatch rules as crimewatch rules and upwell stations are completely unrelated. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_Shasta](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/duke_shasta/32/495942_2.png) [@Duke\_Shasta](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Duke_Shasta)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 2:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-how-tether-works-in-highsec-for-suspects-and-outlaws/306440/104 "2021-04-19T14:07:47Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Upwell structure tether is automatically provided to selected players. Whether you want to call the automation a player action or an NPC action, it has absolutely nothing to do with the crimewatch system and should apply to all players chosen by the station owner, and should not apply based on crimewatch rules as those things are completely unrelated. But when you are tethered up, the structure is automatically repping you. If a player was repping you, that player would also be flagged, allowing the people hunting you to kill the repper before going after you. But if you are tethered up, the people hunting you can’t do anything about it except wait for you to break your tether ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 2:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-how-tether-works-in-highsec-for-suspects-and-outlaws/306440/105 "2021-04-19T14:08:54Z")
> [@Duke\_Shasta](#): > > But when you are tethered up, the structure is automatically repping you. If a player was repping you, that player would also be flagged, allowing the people hunting you to kill the repper before going after you. But if you are tethered up, the people hunting you can’t do anything about it except wait for you to break your tether Does CONCORD destroy a station when bad people use the repair option? No? Tether is the same. Tether is not equal to a player using a repair module. Tether is similar to using the repair option when docked and provides the same invulnerability as when docked. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 2:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-how-tether-works-in-highsec-for-suspects-and-outlaws/306440/106 "2021-04-19T14:10:46Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > We won’t get anywhere with this useless sub discussion. So let’s go back to the main topic. Yet you are wrong by claiming that tethering is not NPC mechanism while concord is. To tether a player is an action taken by a non player entity, that is an NPC. A player cannot directly decide to tether another player or to remove the tether, making tether a non PC mechanism. > [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Whether you want to call the automation a player action or an NPC action, it has absolutely nothing to do with the crimewatch system and should apply to all players chosen by the station owner, and should not apply based on crimewatch rules as those things are completely unrelated. It depends on what you define as crimewatch and being suspect. If you consider it should prevent NPC protection of the target, then it should also remove tethering. If you consider it only prevents concord specifically then it’s okay to keep tethering. After all I believe Conoco doesn’t care when other NPC still rep you and you are suspect (fob and endecom/trigs). Again I just don’t care. But it’s still important to not claim false things. > [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Does CONCORD destroy a station when bad people use the repair option? No? > > Tether is the same. That’s because structures are NPC to start with. Concord only punishes PC. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-how-tether-works-in-highsec-for-suspects-and-outlaws/306440.md?page=4) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-how-tether-works-in-highsec-for-suspects-and-outlaws/306440.md?page=6)