# Change how tether works in highsec for suspects and outlaws **URL:** \ **Category:** Assembly Hall\ **Created:** [April 18, 2021, 12:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-how-tether-works-in-highsec-for-suspects-and-outlaws/306440 "2021-04-18T12:46:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 2:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-how-tether-works-in-highsec-for-suspects-and-outlaws/306440/130 "2021-04-19T14:50:59Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Sooo, a wormhole that takes actions to let one ship through and not another based on ship mass is also a character accotding to you? > > Or would it perhaps be an _object_? The one taking the action is the player. The WH takes no action whatsoever. The action fails if the WH limit is below the ship mass. If the WH was taking actions, that is non global effect based on rules, then yes it would be an NPC, just like the sentries on the gates are. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 2:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-how-tether-works-in-highsec-for-suspects-and-outlaws/306440/131 "2021-04-19T14:52:53Z")
And what ‘actions’ is an unmanned station taking? It just automatically applies tether to any ship based on ACL, which fails when the ship has a weapons timer. Sounds like an object just like a wormhole to me. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 2:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-how-tether-works-in-highsec-for-suspects-and-outlaws/306440/132 "2021-04-19T14:59:08Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > It just automatically applies tether to any ship based on ACL, which fails when the ship has a weapons timer. which is an action. Most NPC have automated (scripted) actions. Concord won’t react unless you deserve it. Even rats can take actions that fail. Typically when you are in a marauder and bastion, the moment you exit the rats won’t use any ewar because it failed once. > [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Sounds like an object just like a wormhole to me. WH don’t tether you. They actually don’t interact wit you. That’s the only important part : do they take actions ? If no, they are not characters in the game sense. Example, a POS IS an NPC entity, even though you can control it and you installed it - because it can shoot you even when you are the only other player in the system, therefore taking actions without a player control. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 3:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-how-tether-works-in-highsec-for-suspects-and-outlaws/306440/133 "2021-04-19T15:01:06Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > Example, a POS IS an NPC entity, even though you can control it and you installed it - because it can shoot you even when you are the only other player in the system, therefore taking actions without a player control. Yep, POS takes actions and can be considered an NPC entity. An unmanned upwell structure takes no actions and is as much an NPC as an abandoned ship. ---
**Author:** ![Astelon\_Bheskagor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/astelon_bheskagor/32/360222_2.png) [@Astelon\_Bheskagor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Astelon_Bheskagor)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 3:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-how-tether-works-in-highsec-for-suspects-and-outlaws/306440/134 "2021-04-19T15:01:51Z")
With the difference that a structure belongs to a player or group of players , that get to define the ACL , while a wormhole doesn’t, as you can’t have sov there in it. You can live in it but can’t claim it, pretty much as an NPC station. Players get to choose by ACL who gets or who does not get tether , while a wormhole gets to choose who passes through it or not just by following an automated algorithm coded in the game. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 3:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-how-tether-works-in-highsec-for-suspects-and-outlaws/306440/135 "2021-04-19T15:02:30Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > An unmanned upwell structure takes no actions But yes you just gave one : tethering is an action. Also pointing baddies is another one. But you just need one (the tethering) to say that structures ARE NPCs. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 3:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-how-tether-works-in-highsec-for-suspects-and-outlaws/306440/136 "2021-04-19T15:06:26Z")
Tether is a passive effect applied on ships that have certain conditions (in range, on ACL, no combat timer…). Would you call a metaliminal storm an NPC? It also has ‘actions’ in the form of a passive effect applied to certain ships. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 3:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-how-tether-works-in-highsec-for-suspects-and-outlaws/306440/137 "2021-04-19T15:06:46Z")
It never ceases to amaze me how heated these highsec mechanics threads get. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 3:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-how-tether-works-in-highsec-for-suspects-and-outlaws/306440/138 "2021-04-19T15:07:41Z")
Oh was this about high sec mechanics? 😱 I was having a discussion about definitions with Anderson. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 3:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-how-tether-works-in-highsec-for-suspects-and-outlaws/306440/139 "2021-04-19T15:11:33Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Tether is a passive effect applied on ships that have certain conditions tether is a targeted effect applied selectively on targets in range that belong to the ACL. So is warp disrupting from the structure (which is another action). “passive effect” means nothing. > [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > It also has ‘actions’ in the form of a passive effect applied to certain ships. No it has no action. It has an uncontrolled system-wide effect, which is not an action. This is as much an action as your overdrive or nanofiber effect on your ship, which I already told you. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 3:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-how-tether-works-in-highsec-for-suspects-and-outlaws/306440/140 "2021-04-19T15:13:08Z")
Let’s say an unmanned upwell station is an NPC, now what? ---
**Author:** ![Astelon\_Bheskagor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/astelon_bheskagor/32/360222_2.png) [@Astelon\_Bheskagor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Astelon_Bheskagor)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 3:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-how-tether-works-in-highsec-for-suspects-and-outlaws/306440/141 "2021-04-19T15:13:27Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > tether is a targeted effect applied selectively on targets in range that belong to the ACL. IF an ACL is setup , if not it applies by default to anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 3:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-how-tether-works-in-highsec-for-suspects-and-outlaws/306440/142 "2021-04-19T15:14:07Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Let’s say an unmanned upwell station is an NPC, now what? Nothing, that was just your claim it was not so I corrected you. > [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Tethering is not an NPC mechanism. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 3:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-how-tether-works-in-highsec-for-suspects-and-outlaws/306440/143 "2021-04-19T15:16:17Z")
Okay, then let’s stop this useless discussion again based on the assumption that I agree that an unmanned upwell station is an NPC. ---
**Author:** ![Mkikaden\_Tiragen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mkikaden_tiragen/32/243913_2.png) [@Mkikaden\_Tiragen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mkikaden_Tiragen)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 5:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-how-tether-works-in-highsec-for-suspects-and-outlaws/306440/144 "2021-04-19T17:04:14Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > Nothing, that was just your claim it was not so I corrected you. The whole conversation is off-topic because this _isn’t relevant to the thread or the arguments made_. So **please** stop nitpicking people needlessly and derailing the thread! ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 5:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-how-tether-works-in-highsec-for-suspects-and-outlaws/306440/145 "2021-04-19T17:07:55Z")
> [@Mkikaden\_Tiragen](#): > > So **please** stop nitpicking people needlessly and derailing the thread! it would be nitpicking if it was not relevant. Actually it was part of his argument against mine, as you could have noticed if you checked your facts before posting. So **please** stop claiming false facts needlessly and making personal attacks. ---
**Author:** ![Mkikaden\_Tiragen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mkikaden_tiragen/32/243913_2.png) [@Mkikaden\_Tiragen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mkikaden_Tiragen)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 5:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-how-tether-works-in-highsec-for-suspects-and-outlaws/306440/146 "2021-04-19T17:09:55Z")
I’m the one who made the initial statement about NPCs that you challenged with a nitpick about whether or not upwells count as NPCs. Fun fact: whether you would consider them an NPC or not _isn’t relevant to the intent of my post_, which was whether or not _NPC faction entities_ should have anything to do with the abilities of structures owned by players. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 5:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-how-tether-works-in-highsec-for-suspects-and-outlaws/306440/147 "2021-04-19T17:11:33Z")
> [@Mkikaden\_Tiragen](#): > > I’m the one who made the initial statement about NPCs I don’t care. Again : I was answering HIM to HIS argument. Not to yours So no, YOU are derailing because you are misunderstanding the discussion. His first answer on this topic was > [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > But tether is not NPC protection, it specifically is player protection as no NPC stations provide tether. ---
**Author:** ![Mkikaden\_Tiragen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mkikaden_tiragen/32/243913_2.png) [@Mkikaden\_Tiragen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mkikaden_Tiragen)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 5:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-how-tether-works-in-highsec-for-suspects-and-outlaws/306440/148 "2021-04-19T17:14:44Z")
He and I made the same argument. It doesn’t matter which if us you responded to _most recently_ - it was still a pointless argument as it isn’t relevant to the topic. Stop being pedantic and derailing threads with non-relevant criticism of how other people apply terms that _may mean something different to them than you_ simply because language is nuanced and _context matters to meaning_. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 5:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-how-tether-works-in-highsec-for-suspects-and-outlaws/306440/149 "2021-04-19T17:15:45Z")
> [@Mkikaden\_Tiragen](#): > > It doesn’t matter which if us you responded to _most recently_ - it was still a pointless argument as it isn’t relevant to the topic. No it was the basis of his argument. Just because it was not of yours, is irrelevant. Again, you are derailing the thread with false facts and personal attacks. > [@Mkikaden\_Tiragen](#): > > with non-relevant criticism of how other people apply terms that _may mean something different to them than you_ simply because language is nuanced and _context matters to meaning_. Stop saying that a potato is a tomato and I will stop saying that you are a vegetable. Those last posts of yours are just trolls trying to derail the thread more than it already was. They are just filled with irrelevant judgement on how people should behave, that is personal attacks, and don’t even pretend to be on topic. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-how-tether-works-in-highsec-for-suspects-and-outlaws/306440.md?page=6) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-how-tether-works-in-highsec-for-suspects-and-outlaws/306440.md?page=8)