# Change the main taxable event from trade to manufacturing **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Created:** [October 29, 2019, 3:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-the-main-taxable-event-from-trade-to-manufacturing/198308 "2019-10-29T15:28:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Marek\_Kanenald](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/marek_kanenald/32/257788_2.png) [@Marek\_Kanenald](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Marek_Kanenald)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 3:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-the-main-taxable-event-from-trade-to-manufacturing/198308/1 "2019-10-29T15:28:51Z")
Like the title says, change the main taxable event from trade to manufacturing. Something that doesn’t produce any value like the mere exchange of existing goods shouldn’t be the main taxable event. Tax should occur when value is added, which is during production. Manufacturing fees are currently a joke, ship destruction is currently even an ISK faucet instead of a sink. Increase the ISK cost of manufacturing so the ridiculous broker/sales fees can be lowered. It will lead to a more balanced system of isk sinks and faucets where destruction is actually removing ISK from the game and where trade isn’t artificially punished. For actual implementation increase manufacturing fees so manufacturing becomes a sink of around 10b isk. Increase the effect of transaction tax reducing skills so it doesn’t look like you are backpedaling on the fee changes and to dissuade alpha bots. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 4:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-the-main-taxable-event-from-trade-to-manufacturing/198308/2 "2019-10-29T16:01:50Z")
> [@Marek\_Kanenald](#): > > so the ridiculous broker/sales fees can be lowered. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/a/4/a4cd679a0b0cdb317c71b713016e9a7147720bee.png) I have a Broker’s fee of 0.5%. You want it to go lower than that? > [@Marek\_Kanenald](#): > > where trade isn’t artificially punished. but trade isn’t punished?..??? ---
**Author:** ![Marek\_Kanenald](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/marek_kanenald/32/257788_2.png) [@Marek\_Kanenald](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Marek_Kanenald)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 4:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-the-main-taxable-event-from-trade-to-manufacturing/198308/3 "2019-10-29T16:15:17Z")
Nice job ignoring the 2.25% minimum sales tax. That’s 2.75% tax for a single transaction in a citadel. Minimum in Jita is 5.25% with perfect standing. Numbers don’t lie. Sales and Broker fees are by far the largest isk sinks in the game. ![afbeelding](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/8/4/84ede0da91d6e5dac2c671ec4590cc7ce9503e34.png) ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 4:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-the-main-taxable-event-from-trade-to-manufacturing/198308/4 "2019-10-29T16:16:24Z")
> [@Marek\_Kanenald](#): > > That’s 2.75% tax for a single transaction in a citadel. > > Minimum in Jita is 5.25% with perfect standing. So… what’s stopping you from using a Citadel? ---
**Author:** ![Marek\_Kanenald](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/marek_kanenald/32/257788_2.png) [@Marek\_Kanenald](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Marek_Kanenald)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 4:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-the-main-taxable-event-from-trade-to-manufacturing/198308/5 "2019-10-29T16:17:50Z")
Shitty sales volumes? Also I do use them for buy orders, doesn’t make the sales tax any less the largest isk sink in the game though. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 4:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-the-main-taxable-event-from-trade-to-manufacturing/198308/6 "2019-10-29T16:20:30Z")
> [@Marek\_Kanenald](#): > > Shitty sales volumes? That’s objectively wrong. And if you actually believe this, you have no place complaining about the market. Tranquility Trading Towers in Perimeter is literally the reason why the prices in Jita are the way they are. ---
**Author:** ![Marek\_Kanenald](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/marek_kanenald/32/257788_2.png) [@Marek\_Kanenald](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Marek_Kanenald)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 4:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-the-main-taxable-event-from-trade-to-manufacturing/198308/7 "2019-10-29T16:25:44Z")
> That’s objectively wrong. Funny because over 90% of sales orders and sales are in jita. Also once again it is a non solution because the bigger one of sinks is sales tax. ---
**Author:** ![Daoden](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daoden/32/271841_2.png) [@Daoden](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daoden)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 4:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-the-main-taxable-event-from-trade-to-manufacturing/198308/8 "2019-10-29T16:31:02Z")
Everyone buys or sells things, not everyone builds things. The tax for trading at least effects everyone rather then punishing just one group, manufacturers. ---
**Author:** ![Marek\_Kanenald](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/marek_kanenald/32/257788_2.png) [@Marek\_Kanenald](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Marek_Kanenald)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 4:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-the-main-taxable-event-from-trade-to-manufacturing/198308/9 "2019-10-29T16:36:06Z")
Everyone uses things. Manufacturers pass on the costs to consumers. ---
**Author:** ![Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhalyd_lyehin/32/358574_2.png) [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhalyd_Lyehin)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 4:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-the-main-taxable-event-from-trade-to-manufacturing/198308/10 "2019-10-29T16:51:25Z")
Trade in structures should subject to a flat 2% brokers fee. 2.4 additional Trillions of ISK remain in the economy for no good reason whatsoever. This needs to change. ---
**Author:** ![Daoden](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daoden/32/271841_2.png) [@Daoden](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daoden)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 4:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-the-main-taxable-event-from-trade-to-manufacturing/198308/11 "2019-10-29T16:56:52Z")
Unless they produce for themselves now your punishing someone for being self sufficient. ---
**Author:** ![Marek\_Kanenald](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/marek_kanenald/32/257788_2.png) [@Marek\_Kanenald](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Marek_Kanenald)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 5:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-the-main-taxable-event-from-trade-to-manufacturing/198308/12 "2019-10-29T17:02:11Z")
Yes and if you tax trade you punish people for cooperation. What do you want to promote more, cooperation or lone play? ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Little](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/do_little/32/411571_2.png) [@Do\_Little](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Do_Little)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 5:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-the-main-taxable-event-from-trade-to-manufacturing/198308/13 "2019-10-29T17:59:39Z")
Manufacturing and research are already taxed. The job cost is the cost of the item being produced multiplied by the system cost index (an reflection of local labor cost). This is in turn multiplied by the tax rate set by the station owner (10% for NPC stations). Taxes are really only a problem if the playing field is not level. If they are the same for everyone (other than the small differences from skills and standing) you simply include them in your cost and add your profit margin on top. Set your floor price to guarantee a reasonable profit and don’t chase the market below that - let it come to you. ---
**Author:** ![Daoden](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daoden/32/271841_2.png) [@Daoden](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daoden)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 6:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-the-main-taxable-event-from-trade-to-manufacturing/198308/14 "2019-10-29T18:24:45Z")
I cooperate by building things for my allaince and direct trade with them for a lower price then Jita. ---
**Author:** ![Marek\_Kanenald](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/marek_kanenald/32/257788_2.png) [@Marek\_Kanenald](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Marek_Kanenald)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 6:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-the-main-taxable-event-from-trade-to-manufacturing/198308/15 "2019-10-29T18:28:29Z")
> Manufacturing and research are already taxed. Numbers show it’s a minimal sink. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Ronuken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/steve_ronuken/32/373894_2.png) [@Steve\_Ronuken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Steve_Ronuken)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 7:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-the-main-taxable-event-from-trade-to-manufacturing/198308/16 "2019-10-29T19:38:35Z")
> [@Marek\_Kanenald](#): > > Sales and Broker fees are by far the largest isk sinks in the game. And there’s no way that we should want to see that go away. Eve _needs_ isk sinks, if isk is to retain value. > [@Marek\_Kanenald](#): > > Numbers show it’s a minimal sink. Mostly because it comes off, after the indexes are applied. Which means in a system where next to no industry happens, there’s next to no taxes ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 7:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-the-main-taxable-event-from-trade-to-manufacturing/198308/17 "2019-10-29T19:54:55Z")
Still doesn’t realise that the reason trade is such a big isk sink is the sheer volume of trade more than the % of fees. ---
**Author:** ![Marek\_Kanenald](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/marek_kanenald/32/257788_2.png) [@Marek\_Kanenald](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Marek_Kanenald)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 11:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-the-main-taxable-event-from-trade-to-manufacturing/198308/18 "2019-10-29T23:42:51Z")
> [@Steve\_Ronuken](#): > > And there’s no way that we should want to see that go away. Eve _needs_ isk sinks, if isk is to retain value. Yes, Eve needs Isk sinks, but that doesn’t change what I said, I said the focus of ISK sinks should be changed, not the absolute amount. > Mostly because it comes off, after the indexes are applied. Which means in a system where next to no industry happens, there’s next to no taxes Doesn’t mean it can’t be raised. ---
**Author:** ![Bronson\_Hughes](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bronson_hughes/32/189075_2.png) [@Bronson\_Hughes](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bronson_Hughes)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 1:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-the-main-taxable-event-from-trade-to-manufacturing/198308/19 "2019-10-30T13:14:11Z")
If everything in New Eden that was ever sold on the market was manufactured by players, you would could make a pretty strong argument for what you’re proposing. Unfortunately, that’s not the case. Look at high price and/or high volume items like rare NPC drops, PLEX, pilot services (skill points in particular, etc.) and how much ISK those things generate in taxes and brokers fees. If we switched to focus ISK sinks more on manufacturing, trading in these items wouldn’t produce any sort of ISK sink, which would likely lead to massive ISK inflation. -1. Interesting idea in theory, but wouldn’t work in practice. ---
**Author:** ![Marek\_Kanenald](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/marek_kanenald/32/257788_2.png) [@Marek\_Kanenald](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Marek_Kanenald)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 1:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-the-main-taxable-event-from-trade-to-manufacturing/198308/20 "2019-10-30T13:27:29Z")
PLEX and pilot services are already sink actual currency, there is no reason to also tax their ISK equivalent. NPC drops are the result of ratting which is an ISK faucet, something of which the magnitude can easily be tweaked. [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-the-main-taxable-event-from-trade-to-manufacturing/198308.md?page=2)