# Change to war dec mechanics **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Created:** [April 2, 2018, 7:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-to-war-dec-mechanics/67463 "2018-04-02T19:39:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Alopex-Lagopus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alopex-lagopus/32/407823_2.png) [@Alopex-Lagopus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alopex-Lagopus)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 11:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-to-war-dec-mechanics/67463/41 "2018-04-03T23:13:43Z")
> [@Dom\_Arkaral](#): > > it puts a big safety tag over about 90% of the highsec population Then you should have don your homework/recon on your enemy and there assets before decking them. > [@Dom\_Arkaral](#): > > if you have a corp you should be able to be decced like it currently is. IRL it usually requires 3x the number of attackers as the defenders to take on a fortified defensive position and have a reasonable chance of victory. I see no benefits to a wardecked corp in high sec for defense against attackers, who have already scoped them out and chosen to attack specifically because they know the defenders have no chance of putting up much of a fight. See top answer^^ > [@Dom\_Arkaral](#): > > if you don’t want to get decced you can either pay for protection or drop to npc corp 🙂 What good is paying for protection, when the attackers have nothing to lose, no point to strike back at, can dock up when defenders are present and 24/7 defenders are expensive… Prohibitively so for almost any corp operating in high sec, meaning not possible to hire. and NPC corp… You seriously present that as an alternative?.. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/f/e/fea6f546c97d334c49c7069a8b3635cb89700783.jpg) Wardecks often hit newer players more so than older ones. If I have to explain how bad that option is for newer players. We will get nowhere and the conversation will have to end here. ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 11:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-to-war-dec-mechanics/67463/42 "2018-04-03T23:23:09Z")
> [@Alopex-Lagopus](#): > > Then you should have don your homework/recon on your enemy and there assets before decking them. > > Dom\_Arkaral: you can’t dec people according to your idea > [@Alopex-Lagopus](#): > > IRL it usually requires 3x the number of attackers as the defenders to take on a fortified defensive position and have a reasonable chance of victory. That’s the western approach, like @Marcus_Luttrell_Khan said in another thread. > [@Alopex-Lagopus](#): > > I see no benefits to a wardecked corp in high sec for defense against attackers, who have already scoped them out and chosen to attack specifically because they know the defenders have no chance of putting up much of a fight. I dec people because they have expensive stuff. if I dec people, I’m by myself so there’s no excuse for them not to fight back > [@Alopex-Lagopus](#): > > What good is paying for protection, when the attackers have nothing to lose, no point to strike back at, can dock up when defenders are present and 24/7 defenders are expensive… Prohibitively so for almost any corp operating in high sec, meaning not possible to hire. of course you won’t want to fight back with such a pessimistic attitude lol Success in EVE is mostly about teamwork. Same goes for wars. As for hiring, I know a lot of duders that do it for free. So again, no excuse but your pessimism 🙂 > [@Alopex-Lagopus](#): > > and NPC corp… > > You seriously present that as an alternative?.. yes, because it is. you clearly haven’t been deccing people only to see them running to npc corps 😃 > [@Alopex-Lagopus](#): > > Wardecks often hit newer players more so than older ones. Do quote where you got that information ---
**Author:** ![Alopex-Lagopus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alopex-lagopus/32/407823_2.png) [@Alopex-Lagopus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alopex-Lagopus)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 11:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-to-war-dec-mechanics/67463/43 "2018-04-03T23:53:56Z")
[http://massivelyop.com/2016/05/01/eve-evolved-fixing-the-new-player-experience-again/](http://massivelyop.com/2016/05/01/eve-evolved-fixing-the-new-player-experience-again/) Watch the video in the link after reading the article above it. ![74 votes and 327 comments so far on Reddit](https://external-preview.redd.it/8fuaHb2XaD4Er-tqMci9_xXyUXIKD4DvKgDE-O-XHcY.png?auto=webp&s=1cac715356e87cf63dad4320ea4b111634dc0b72) Uncle\_Gamer his first post touches on some key points. and this nasty little bugger that ties them all together. 😛 [http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility](http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility) Set it to cover a 5 year period. (Note the spike around the 2017 marker when eve went F2P.) … Without a drastic change, patch or update… I don’t see another spike in the near future. ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 12:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-to-war-dec-mechanics/67463/44 "2018-04-04T00:54:51Z")
And that’s solely because of highsec wars? Nah ---
**Author:** ![Alopex-Lagopus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alopex-lagopus/32/407823_2.png) [@Alopex-Lagopus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alopex-Lagopus)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 1:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-to-war-dec-mechanics/67463/45 "2018-04-04T01:10:50Z")
High sec wars are a significant contributing factor. ---
**Author:** ![MinerArt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/minerart/32/33728_2.png) [@MinerArt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MinerArt)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 1:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-to-war-dec-mechanics/67463/46 "2018-04-04T01:53:49Z")
> [@Keno\_Skir](#): > > I think it’s going to have to be a bit more complex than just basing wars on citadels. There is a very simple reason why I said it doesn’t need to be a citadel but it does need to stop being flat isk. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 2:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-to-war-dec-mechanics/67463/47 "2018-04-04T02:18:26Z")
> [@Alopex-Lagopus](#): > > and NPC corp… > > You seriously present that as an alternative?.. Yep. That is the alternative. You are clearly too weak to run a player corp successfully, so the alternative is either an NPC corp or joining a more powerful player corp. You are not entitled to a corp of your own, CCP does not owe you changes to the mechanics just because the current ones are too difficult for you. ---
**Author:** ![Alopex-Lagopus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alopex-lagopus/32/407823_2.png) [@Alopex-Lagopus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alopex-Lagopus)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 2:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-to-war-dec-mechanics/67463/48 "2018-04-04T02:23:13Z")
Shut up “Teckos Pech”, you are not fooling anyone with your alt “Merin Ryskin” ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 2:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-to-war-dec-mechanics/67463/49 "2018-04-04T02:25:23Z")
> [@Alopex-Lagopus](#): > > Shut up “Teckos Pech”, you are not fooling anyone with your alt “Merin Ryskin” Ah yes, the paranoid delusions of the spineless carebear. Truly when anyone disagrees with their obsessive need to farm and treat EVE as WoW with spaceships it must all be alts of the same person. It is all a conspiracy to ruin their farming. ---
**Author:** ![Alopex-Lagopus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alopex-lagopus/32/407823_2.png) [@Alopex-Lagopus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alopex-Lagopus)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 2:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-to-war-dec-mechanics/67463/50 "2018-04-04T02:26:33Z")
Confirmed. Merin Ryskin is Teckos Pech. ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 2:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-to-war-dec-mechanics/67463/52 "2018-04-04T02:44:23Z")
> [@Alopex-Lagopus](#): > > High sec wars are a significant contributing factor. **COUGH COUGH** > [@Where are new characters getting killed?](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/where-are-new-characters-getting-killed/60007): > > Seen an influx of opinions on where new players are dying in EVE Online. Since I have a nice database of both killmails, and character history, I wanted to take a look for myself and understand where these folks keep losing their ships. Since I pulled the data, figured I would share. [download] N=610. Characters were less than 7 days old at the time of loss. 30 days of data as of 2018-02-26 Kill per unique characterID per category. Ship + pod loss counts as 1. Single pod loss counts as 1. gan… **COUGH COUGH COUGH** Nope You can’t even come up with actual proof But luckily for you I do 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugh_crow-slave/32/441552_2.png) [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugh_Crow-Slave)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 2:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-to-war-dec-mechanics/67463/53 "2018-04-04T02:53:51Z")
> [@Alopex-Lagopus](#): > > High sec wars are a significant contributing factor. not as big as every bumb joe being able to be a ceo and bring in newbros for a ■■■■ experience. go look at the war history of “guardians of the morrigan” nearly 3 years of constant war decs and we still managed to go about our days with little to no trouble dispute this being back when large groups actively hunted targets, its idiots who cant lead leading newbs who don’t know better and that causes a problem with retention far outside HS wars ---
**Author:** ![Alopex-Lagopus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alopex-lagopus/32/407823_2.png) [@Alopex-Lagopus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alopex-Lagopus)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 2:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-to-war-dec-mechanics/67463/54 "2018-04-04T02:56:28Z")
Thank you for verifying and showing how new players are running from high sec as fast as possible and getting killed on the way to null, thus the high numbers off losses in null for new players who learn fast, high sec is boring in NPC corp, join small corp get trapped in station, no fun, try something else and go straight into null corps and alliances. I wonder what percentage of new players get war decked and just don’t undock and get board and move on to another game? I also wonder what percentage of new players are incentivized to go to null. (Because that’s where everyone tells them to go) and they are stuck doing data/relic sites salvaging or suicide tackle for a looooong time because of low SP and are turned off by it and leave? ---
**Author:** ![MinerArt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/minerart/32/33728_2.png) [@MinerArt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MinerArt)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 3:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-to-war-dec-mechanics/67463/55 "2018-04-04T03:17:40Z")
I’m more curious if the data shows how many of these people who moved to nul still exist. ---
**Author:** ![Alopex-Lagopus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alopex-lagopus/32/407823_2.png) [@Alopex-Lagopus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alopex-Lagopus)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 3:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-to-war-dec-mechanics/67463/56 "2018-04-04T03:18:01Z")
Me too. Data like that is frequently only collected for a short time and presented in little snipets. But falls short in scope and longevity, leaving out important statistics or only collected long enough to benefit one theory, guideline or point of reference. But not tell the whole story. ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 5:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-to-war-dec-mechanics/67463/57 "2018-04-04T05:32:25Z")
You are saying that a company that makes dozens of millions per month, is incapable of looking at their own data and also incapable of making proper conclusions from their data. You are also saying that this company apparently has no idea how to actually find relevant and correct information inside all of their data. Plus, you are ignoring that, if wardecs truly were a problem, they would just have nerfed them again. Just like the last times. Not fixing, no. Nerfs. Because ■■■■ highsec anyway, just as usual. And here you are, having zero data at all, declaring that you know better. Does that really make sense to you? ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 7:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-to-war-dec-mechanics/67463/58 "2018-04-04T07:21:53Z")
Why are we assuming that maximizing new player retention is the primary goal? EVE is never going to be a game that everyone likes, and people will always leave after realizing it isn’t the game for them. We should be _happy_ that EVE is losing new players because it means that EVE hasn’t compromised its identity in favor of temporary subscription increases, a plan that is a disaster in the long run. So yes, I’m sure some newbies encounter a war and ragequit. Good. Those people don’t belong here. Posting data that confirms that this is happening is not a compelling argument for change. ---
**Author:** ![EveDataRules](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/evedatarules/32/52946_2.png) [@EveDataRules](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/EveDataRules)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 12:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-to-war-dec-mechanics/67463/59 "2018-04-04T12:45:43Z")
> You are saying that a company that makes dozens of millions per month, is incapable of looking at their own data and also incapable of making proper conclusions from their data. That’s the case with most organizations, yes. Which is why they hire consultants to tell them what they already know. ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 12:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-to-war-dec-mechanics/67463/60 "2018-04-04T12:56:37Z")
This is not complicated, though, and EVE history supports the conclusion perfectly. Recruiting newer players by shooting them had a long tradition in this game. The scenario usually went something like this: They mined into a jetcan. They got can-flipped. They attacked the flipper. They lost. Convo. “Wow, I did not know you could do that! Amazing!” “What just happened?” “How dare you! One day I will exact revenge on you!” This was the norm before times changed and CCP gave in to the whining mainstreamers, before they have decided to unknowingly ruin the game’s continuous growth. As I know that there is no point in talking about this anyway, because the griefers will only deny any- and everything when it does not fit into their rather inhume worldview, I will now just opt out of this. This thread will achieve just as much as all the others anyway. : - ) ---
**Author:** ![MinerArt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/minerart/32/33728_2.png) [@MinerArt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MinerArt)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 3:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-to-war-dec-mechanics/67463/61 "2018-04-04T15:09:12Z")
> [@Solstice\_Projekt](#): > > This thread will achieve just as much as all the others anyway. : - ) It is and always will be the status quo due to lack of wanting to look at it. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-to-war-dec-mechanics/67463.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/change-to-war-dec-mechanics/67463.md?page=4)