# Cloaky Camping - From a Wormholer's Perspective **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Tags:** null-sec, pvp, wormhole\ **Created:** [January 5, 2021, 4:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717 "2021-01-05T16:30:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 3:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/204 "2021-03-03T15:47:15Z")
You speak as though your opinion is the only one that matters. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 3:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/205 "2021-03-03T15:57:57Z")
Is it strange that I share my opinion here in a way that I think it matters? I thought that was the purpose of these forums: discuss opinions and ideas. šŸ˜… Anyway, I do value other opinions as well, especially when people take a discussion seriously and come with good arguments. Edit: I get your point, reading through a couple of my previous posts I have stated my opinions like facts a couple times. I guess thatā€™s what you mean? Thanks for pointing that out. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 4:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/206 "2021-03-03T16:28:10Z")
When you express a strongly held opinion on these forums many so called tough guys get all mushy. You donā€™t have anything to apologise for at least in my opinion. AFK cloaky camping has always been an activity killer and something that drives people out of the game, or at best makes them give up on certain activities. Why are so many people in hisec? Well AFK cloaky camping is one reason for it. Previously before injectors a cyno 5 character took time to create, so you could set up info bait to draw out who it was and get to know their play time. However once injectors were a thing people could easily create and setup new cyno 5 alts. It destroyed the counter play of getting intel yourself on the camper. So the only option is to bore yourself to deathā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 4:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/207 "2021-03-03T16:39:16Z")
So the logic is . . . 1. Most Eve players want to just grind up the game without interacting with other players. 2. Being defeated in PvP is a terrible, intolerable setback to anybody who just wants to grind up isk/mining. 3. Having a cloaked person in local significantly increases the chances of the grinder losing a PvP battle, so allowing it is detrimental to the game. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 4:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/208 "2021-03-03T16:51:40Z")
That is your logic. The best game play I had in Eve was belt ratting in Stain with localised conflict, small gang stuff, fighting over crappy systems that the big boys largely ignored in 2010. Now with so many people BLOPā€™s able or capital heavy (though recent cyno changes reduced that) ,with people so desperate to get kills that they would drop on a rifter. Risk / reward works both ways, when I was belt ratting in Stain I was doing about 10m an hour max, because I was having to locate rats, blow them up and I was salvaging too for minerals and rigs. So the issue is that with the negative development in cloaky camping with so many people able to do BLOPā€™s, the inability to gather intel due to injectors, the reduction in refine rates and the desperation of people for kills that it became too risky for the reward and no longer viable. Belt ratters used to be excellent content by the way for those ignorant of how the game used to be. With the changes in resource allocation maybe belt ratting could come back but if you have an AFK cloaky camping campaign with many alts in all the systems you use, with people who are account sharing and the like it is just a loss leader and not worth doing. Eve is now a easy kill farming game, which is why I fell out of love with it. So if you want to throw a 1 2 3 at it based on your feelings then feel free, I just gave you my feelings too. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 4:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/209 "2021-03-03T16:57:09Z")
What does your post have to do with cloaky camping? ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 4:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/210 "2021-03-03T16:58:52Z")
Where you replying to me? ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 4:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/211 "2021-03-03T16:59:18Z")
Yes. It is like a random stream of consciousness you wrote. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 4:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/212 "2021-03-03T16:59:59Z")
It sounded like you were replying to something else, still does. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 5:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/213 "2021-03-03T17:00:26Z")
You are very unique, Drac. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 5:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/214 "2021-03-03T17:00:47Z")
I guess you donā€™t know what BLOPā€™s are then. So you said this: > [@Xeux](#): > > You speak as though your opinion is the only one that matters. And then did the same thing yourself with this: > [@Xeux](#): > > So the logic is . . . > > 1. Most Eve players want to just grind up the game without interacting with other players. > 2. Being defeated in PvP is a terrible, intolerable setback to anybody who just wants to grind up isk/mining. > 3. Having a cloaked person in local significantly increases the chances of the grinder losing a PvP battle, so allowing it is detrimental to the game. LOL ---
**Author:** ![Skriven\_Penshar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/skriven_penshar/32/249904_2.png) [@Skriven\_Penshar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Skriven_Penshar)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 5:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/215 "2021-03-03T17:10:23Z")
> [@Dictateur\_Imperator](#): > > For me if you are ACTIVE and always cloack without never uncloack for reasons ā€¦ you need to be counter to. 3 questions Why? Why? and Why? > [@Dezvipe](#): > > We all want to show newer players everything Eve has to offer right? It should be possible for newbros to move to null and learn the game, at least in my opinion. No one is saying they canā€™t, but moving to null means you have to take the good with the bad. More ISK means more RISK. If they join a corp, hopefully they join one that can defend itā€™s space. I have no problem with new people moving to null to ā€œlearn the gameā€. I do have a problem with dumbing down null because itā€™s ā€œtoo hardā€ to defend your space. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > > [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > > > I donā€™t like lazy afk ratters, I donā€™t like lazy afk miners and I also donā€™t like lazy afk hunters. I wish CCP does something to encourage more engaging non-afk gameplay. > > That is the gist of it, nothing else matters, great post. Itā€™s a good post, not great. I also would prefer CCP to encourage non-AFK gameplay, but there is a difference between the three styles named. The first two consume resources and directly effect the economy of Eve. AFK cloakies can only suppress the resource gathering of the targeted system. While that does effect the economy of the targeted corp/players the cloaky is not gathering resources or making ISK. That is a huge difference. > [@Dictateur\_Imperator](#): > > Why nerf cloacky ? > > - No viable counter . > - Use for making grieffing (and so make player leave the game, who is bad for healt of the game). > - AFK gameplay (but when i see CCP nerf super who can"t be play AFK ā€¦ i think they want afk gameplay). Answers: Wrong That is the whole purpose of the cloaky camper. Bad for corp, not game Sometimes, but not always. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 5:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/216 "2021-03-03T17:22:16Z")
Yes there is a huge difference, AFK cloaky camping is the only activity of the three mentioned that I could do with total safely and with no risk. This game has an issue with activity, you can define what ever you want in terms of resource gathering and counter play, but if people are not active the game is not worth playing. Perrsonally I miss belt ratting in Stain, but there is no way with AFK cloaky camping as it is now, that I would even bother trying it. And belt ratters were great content in the past. In the golden age that people like Xuex try to ignore. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 5:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/217 "2021-03-03T17:33:10Z")
I donā€™t ignore it. I just havenā€™t given up, like you have. ---
**Author:** ![Skriven\_Penshar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/skriven_penshar/32/249904_2.png) [@Skriven\_Penshar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Skriven_Penshar)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 5:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/218 "2021-03-03T17:34:12Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > Yes there is a huge difference, AFK cloaky camping is the only activity of the three mentioned that I could do with total safely and with no risk. Only if you never uncloak. But then youā€™re no longer AFK. The vicious Catch-22 > [@Dracvlad](#): > > Perrsonally I miss belt ratting in Stain, but there is no way with AFK cloaky camping as it is now, that I would even bother trying it. And belt ratters were great content in the past. In the golden age that people like Xuex try to ignore Iā€™ve wandered through a lot of null systems, including Stain, and there are plenty of empty systems. Cloaky campers are not some scourge infesting all of null-sec. Iā€™ve only seen one or two in the wild camping multiple systems > [@Dracvlad](#): > > This game has an issue with activity, you can define what ever you want in terms of resource gathering and counter play, but if people are not active the game is not worth playing. And what I defined was reality. Two of those activities involve someone running a bot 23/7 harvesting resources and making ISK in almost complete safety and almost risk free. The third is just sitting in space. Hopefully keeping those bots from undocking. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 5:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/219 "2021-03-03T17:49:22Z")
Do you understand risk / reward? > [@Xeux](#): > > I donā€™t ignore it. I just havenā€™t given up, like you have. You only use risk reward when it suits you. The risk far out weighā€™s the reward, making it not worth doing. > [@Skriven\_Penshar](#): > > Only if you never uncloak. But then youā€™re no longer AFK. The vicious Catch-22 You canā€™t uncloak if AFK, though you do have to be in a decent safe spot not to be uncloaked. > [@Skriven\_Penshar](#): > > Iā€™ve wandered through a lot of null systems, including Stain, and there are plenty of empty systems. Cloaky campers are not some scourge infesting all of null-sec. Iā€™ve only seen one or two in the wild camping multiple systems And they are empty because of what? Passing through systems and declaring them empty of campers is meaningless. As soon as you start showing activity then it starts. > [@Skriven\_Penshar](#): > > And what I defined was reality. Two of those activities involve someone running a bot 23/7 harvesting resources and making ISK in almost complete safety and almost risk free. The third is just sitting in space. Hopefully keeping those bots from undocking. And I really donā€™t get your view that AFK ratting and AFK mining are risk free, are you talking about hisec? ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 5:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/220 "2021-03-03T17:50:06Z")
My reward for playing Eve is not isk. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 5:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/221 "2021-03-03T17:55:31Z")
Nor mine. Though I am not really sure how the statement like that of a hisec ganker relates to nullsec risk / reward in terms of AFK cloaky camping. ---
**Author:** ![Skriven\_Penshar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/skriven_penshar/32/249904_2.png) [@Skriven\_Penshar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Skriven_Penshar)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 6:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/222 "2021-03-03T18:13:21Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > And I really donā€™t get your view that AFK ratting and AFK mining are risk free Iā€™m speaking to bots. Or sov-null renters that canā€™t defend their space. But mostly to bots which dock as soon as a non-blue enters the system making it very hard to catch them. Not impossible, but very difficult so that is why I said ā€œalmostā€. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > And they are empty because of what? Passing through systems and declaring them empty of campers is meaningless. As soon as you start showing activity then it starts Empty because no one is in them. Plenty of anomalies and sites to run. Just no one there. I understand the not wanting to take risk. If I jump into a system with someone else I move to another system. I know and accept my limitations. I play within my comfort zone ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 6:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/223 "2021-03-03T18:26:39Z")
> [@Skriven\_Penshar](#): > > Iā€™m speaking to bots. And that is your issue, in fact the biggest victims of AFK cloaky camping are not bots. > [@Skriven\_Penshar](#): > > Or sov-null renters that canā€™t defend their space. I am glad you added that. But the Goons can not defend their space, how far does that go? > [@Skriven\_Penshar](#): > > Empty because no one is in them. And that is because of what? There are many reasons for systems to be empty, but among them is AFK cloaky camping. > [@Skriven\_Penshar](#): > > I understand the not wanting to take risk. If I jump into a system with someone else I move to another system. I know and accept my limitations. I play within my comfort zone Yes, which is why those systems are empty, as soon as someone tries to use them in any systematic way they will get AFK cloaky camped. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717.md?page=10) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717.md?page=12)