# Cloaky Camping - From a Wormholer's Perspective **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Tags:** null-sec, pvp, wormhole\ **Created:** [January 5, 2021, 4:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717 "2021-01-05T16:30:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 5:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/143 "2021-02-25T17:20:03Z")
When afk docked in an NPC station you **cannot** when you come back to the keyboard immediately light a cyno or provide a warp in after undocking. When afk cloaked in space you **can** when you come back to the keyboard immediately light a cyno after uncloaking, or provide a warp in even without uncloaking. The difference is that an aware player is able to see in the first situation that the ship is no longer docked in station and that a ship appeared on dscan. In the second situation an aware player has no ability to see the difference between AFK and a non-AFK state of the camper. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 5:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/144 "2021-02-25T17:20:50Z")
But… > [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > after undocking. > [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > after uncloaking > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > same number of button presses ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 5:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/145 "2021-02-25T17:21:39Z")
I feel like you’re missing something. Or I am missing something. Either way, we’re talking past eachother and that’s not _my_ intention. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 5:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/146 "2021-02-25T17:22:25Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > The difference is that an aware player is able to see in the first situation that the ship is no longer docked in station and that a ship appeared on dscan. In the second situation an aware player has no ability to see the difference between AFK and a non-AFK state of the camper. But yet no bcause you are working with the scenario that the AFK Cloak has not been sitting in your system for days, which afaik was the standard modus operandi ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 5:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/147 "2021-02-25T17:25:16Z")
No no not my intention either, sorry Ill try to be more clear And Im not trying to move goalposts, but Im saying that you take a ship and stick iit in clioak for days to try and put a bunch of krabs off their game. Someday you might light a cyno, someday you might not. Either way, disruption is caused, and the krabs cry foul, right? Scenario two: I sit afk in a station for days, trying to put the krabs off their game, but they know Im docked so dont care. They see m ein local, and ignore me. Except oine day before they are online I undock and wait. When they come on line and see me in local they ignore me as theyd have to clock me at the staioon they are in to know IM not there. Bang I light a cyno and they flee. Tbh that actually sounds more fun though far more effort than disrupting krabs is worth I mean,. I could just undock and light a cyno anyway, and do the job without needing a cloak ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 5:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/148 "2021-02-25T17:29:35Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Scenario two: I sit afk in a station for days, trying to put the krabs off their game, but they know Im docked so dont care. They see m ein local, and ignore me. Except oine day before they are online I undock and wait. When they come on line and see me in local they ignore me as theyd have to clock me at the staioon they are in to know IM not there. Bang I light a cyno and they flee. Tbh that actually sounds more fun though far more effort than disrupting krabs is worth That’s smart and fair play! And entirely the fault of the krabs too if they get caught: they _could have known_ that you weren’t in station by checking the list of docked pilots in that station. Now AFK cloaking: for AFK cloaking there is no such indication to show a difference between _afk_ and _not afk_. That means that there is no way for the aware crab to tell when you’re going to drop, and no way to tell a lazy crab ‘haha that was your own mistake!’, unlike the first situation. They can’t know whether a cloaky in system is AFK or not, because there is _no sign at all_ that tells the difference. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 5:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/149 "2021-02-25T17:31:46Z")
Eh, I dont do it to bait, I do it to stop targets krabbing. But basically, its not about cynoing? Cos if it is, then I dont get the problem. If its not, then ehhh I guess, but the last thing I think krabs need is an easier time, so thats generally why Im against it. Plus I like chilling in a scanning ship sometimes ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 5:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/150 "2021-02-25T17:33:45Z")
Have we gotten to the scripted talking point where we discuss local? ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 5:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/151 "2021-02-25T17:34:11Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > But basically, its not about cynoing? Cos if it is, then I dont get the problem. If cynos didn’t exist, I’d love to rat just to bait a solo bomber to uncloak and fight me. And I don’t even like ratting. The issue is that 1. the cloaky is likely not even paying attention, forcing me to rat for hours until he finally is aware of me (ugh, ratting) 2. the cloaky likely has a blops cyno and brings in enough ships to easily kill me me so I’d be crazy to try to bait AFK cloaky ships in system are fun PvP opportunities when they cannot use a cyno. When they can use a cyno, they’re not fun anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 5:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/152 "2021-02-25T17:34:13Z")
Im resisting it. I hate local news ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 5:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/153 "2021-02-25T17:34:44Z")
> [@Xeux](#): > > Have we gotten to the scripted talking point where we discuss local? As I always said, removing local solves the issue of afk cloaky camping. It introduces some other issues too though, so I think there are more elegant solutions. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 5:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/154 "2021-02-25T17:36:38Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > the cloaky likely has a blops cyno and brings in enough ships to easily kill me me so I’d be crazy to try to bait At the end of the day though thats the call anyone makes doing anything, isnt it. Though in my experience its the krabs bringing em. Also here’s a thing, unrelated, not aimed at you either, but are there people that can reconcile “one ship shouldnt stop my mining fleet” and “20 cats shouldnt be able to kill my frieghter”? ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 5:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/155 "2021-02-25T17:39:35Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > The problem that people can be invulnerable all day in system. But why does it matter if they’re invulnerable? If they AFK cloaked all day then they aren’t doing anything, just ignore them. And if they are doing things then they aren’t invulnerable all day. > AFK cloaky ships in system are fun PvP opportunities when they cannot use a cyno. When they can use a cyno, they’re not fun anymore. “It’s fun when I win, when the other side can bring more than I can kill solo it isn’t fun anymore”. > In the second situation an aware player has no ability to see the difference between AFK and a non-AFK state of the camper. And why should it be otherwise? Why should the farmer have advance warning that a threat is active with plenty of time to dock up before the threat can launch an attack? Why should it be virtually impossible to catch anyone who is watching local? ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 5:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/156 "2021-02-25T17:40:09Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > At the end of the day though thats the call anyone makes doing anything, isnt it. True, most people only take a fight they’re sure to win. So I don’t blame the afk cloakies for bringing a cyno. I do blame the system though for removing the opportunity of fighting solo cloakies because the danger of a cyno is always present. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 5:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/157 "2021-02-25T17:41:07Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > I do blame the system though for removing the opportunity of fighting solo cloakies because the danger of a cyno is always present. Why do you think that the solo player is going to engage you if they aren’t confident that they can win? And should we also remove every other one vs. many scenario because solo players want 1v1 fights? ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 5:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/159 "2021-02-25T17:45:09Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Why do you think that the solo player is going to engage you if they aren’t confident that they can win? And should we also remove every other one vs. many scenario because solo players want 1v1 fights? Why shouldn’t the solo player engage? If the victim is flying a max dps ratting fit and the attacker times their attack well, the solo bomber has a good chance of winning. And no, I don’t support removal of every other one vs many scenario. In fact, in the context of cloaky one vs many scenarios, I love blops fleets. I just don’t think that after a day of AFKing cloaked in system one should be able to cyno in a blops fleet. Let the blops hunters work for their kill. Not ‘throw out a wide fishing net of AFK cloakers in an entire region’. I don’t like lazy afk ratters, I don’t like lazy afk miners and I also don’t like lazy afk hunters. I wish CCP does something to encourage more engaging non-afk gameplay. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 6:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/160 "2021-02-25T18:54:42Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Why should I put in effort when you don’t? > > Go find my previous posts on this topic in this thread and the AFK cloaky thread if you’re bothered. But I’m pretty sure you aren’t. So your excuse is this, which means you don’t have an answer. The fact is the cloaked ship can’t DO ANYTHING and in 4 threads, 10,000s of posts no one has ever been able to answer the question: What does the cloaked ship DO that requires a counter? ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 7:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/161 "2021-02-25T19:06:05Z")
It is scary. ---
**Author:** ![Skriven\_Penshar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/skriven_penshar/32/249904_2.png) [@Skriven\_Penshar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Skriven_Penshar)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 7:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/162 "2021-02-25T19:23:45Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > I just don’t think that after a day of AFKing cloaked in system one should be able to cyno in a blops fleet. Then a fix should just address the cloaky that also fits a cyno. It’s the only problem with AFK cloaking. But then there will be an even bigger problem with botting than there already is at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![Skriven\_Penshar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/skriven_penshar/32/249904_2.png) [@Skriven\_Penshar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Skriven_Penshar)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 7:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/163 "2021-02-25T19:29:52Z")
And again… Why has this thread not been moved? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717.md?page=7) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717.md?page=9)