# Cloaky Camping - From a Wormholer's Perspective **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Tags:** null-sec, pvp, wormhole\ **Created:** [January 5, 2021, 4:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717 "2021-01-05T16:30:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 7:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/164 "2021-02-25T19:31:28Z")
> [@Salt\_Foambreaker](#): > > So your excuse is this, which means you don’t have an answer. No, it only means I’m not going to bother with meaningful rrsponses to someone who doesn’t bother either, like you. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 7:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/165 "2021-02-25T19:35:58Z")
> [@Skriven\_Penshar](#): > > Then a fix should just address the cloaky that also fits a cyno. It’s the only problem with AFK cloaking. But then there will be an even bigger problem with botting than there already is at the moment. Exactly, that has been my proposed fix against cloaky camping for a long time: **Make cloaked ships leak cyno fuel over time** , not enough to make blops hunting impossible, but enough to make cynoing in a fleet after hours of cloaking impossible. (Mind: ships can cloak without cyno fuel just like normal, cyno fuel is _no requirement_ for cloaking, it just leaks). I don’t see why botting has something to do with this though\*, let’s fix one issue at a time. If any fix to any problem in EVE also requires a fix to botting we better give up already. 😋 \*_I mean, sure, afk cloaking can be used against bots, just like any other tool in this PvP game can be used against bots, but that doesn’t make it an effective way to stop botting and neither should players be the ones to stop others from botting. Lastly, two wrongs don’t make a right, botting is bad but so is AFK cloaking. A different scale of bad (botting is much worse) but bad nonetheless._ ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 8:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/166 "2021-02-25T20:07:27Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > I don’t see why botting has something to do with this though\*, The reason it has something to do with it, is that cloaky camping with the threat of a hot drop is one of the few counters to low risk nullsec ratting and mining in sov space. They are linked. Cloaky camping can be used to gather intel like in the current war, but disrupting ratting requires a threat of a hot drop, because otherwise intel networks provide plenty of warning of any fleet moving through a region. The leaky cyno fuel unfortunately also affects people who are active, not just AFK. There are plenty of examples of people that maintain activity across many hours, actively hunting. The leaky cyno fuel approach nerfs their game, only to benefit the whiners that want lower risk PVE; and that’s the core question about the balance - why do nullsec ratters and botters need increased safety? Change cloaking with cyno fuel, but not alone. Nerf nullsec income rates to balance the lower risk. Then at least there would be an evening out of the issue. Lower risk → less income. Or, if the aim is to nerf AFK cloaking, then provide some additional benefit to active hunting, so that they lose if they are actively hunting for too long, but in the period when they can light a cyno, there is some balance to compensate for the time limit placed on them. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 8:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/167 "2021-02-25T20:33:10Z")
> [@Xeux](#): > > It is scary. They should have stickied post #2 (which said basically that) in the original thread 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 8:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/168 "2021-02-25T20:34:05Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > No, it only means I’m not going to bother with meaningful rrsponses to someone who doesn’t bother either, like you. It’s an excuse, you can’t answer the question because there is no reason. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 8:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/169 "2021-02-25T20:39:21Z")
> [@Skriven\_Penshar](#): > > And again… > Why has this thread not been moved? I reported it but in these forums it matters who you are. ---
**Author:** ![shrecken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shrecken/32/250465_2.png) [@shrecken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/shrecken)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 8:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/170 "2021-02-25T20:40:17Z")
Solid post ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 8:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/171 "2021-02-25T20:51:05Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Make cloaked ships leak cyno fuel over time Cynos in null are only a problem for AFK ratters/botters/miners because they are AFK and cannot react. For people who are at the keyboard, when the cyno pops, or local fills, you just warp away. Easy easy easy. Again, counter for what? What does the cloaked ship do that needs a counter? Maybe when it uncloaks it should make a super loud sound on the computer of everyone in the system so the AFK players can react? /facepalm ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 9:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/172 "2021-02-25T21:55:13Z")
Well we (me and he) already agreed its not about cynos. Because it makes no difference if youve just decloaked or just undocked. So its really just about krabs feeling safe Which Im against but can do without a cloak too if I have to ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 12:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/173 "2021-02-26T00:18:33Z")
Agreed, that is why the cyno fuel idea is just another pointless idea. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 12:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/174 "2021-02-26T00:31:11Z")
> [@Salt\_Foambreaker](#): > > Maybe when it uncloaks it should make a super loud sound on the computer of everyone in the system so the AFK players can react? It would need to send a text message to their cell phone. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 12:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/175 "2021-02-26T00:32:56Z")
Ah TY for that good laugh! 🤣 10/10 ---
**Author:** ![Skriven\_Penshar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/skriven_penshar/32/249904_2.png) [@Skriven\_Penshar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Skriven_Penshar)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 12:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/176 "2021-02-26T00:56:14Z")
[https://media.giphy.com/media/5YhFFUFq6ZTry/giphy.gif(image larger than 4096KB)](https://media.giphy.com/media/5YhFFUFq6ZTry/giphy.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 4:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/177 "2021-02-26T16:30:46Z")
> [@Salt\_Foambreaker](#): > > For people who are at the keyboard, when the cyno pops, or local fills, you just warp away. > > Easy easy easy. > > Again, counter for what? What does the cloaked ship do that needs a counter? Except that bomber lighting a cyno when they uncloak also has your ship scrammed and webbed before your ship can get into warp, even if you have inhuman reflexes. I don’t understand why I have to keep stating the obvious. The afk cloaky discussion has some good ideas and points on both sides (and also a lot of terrible ones), so I don’t understand why you keep repeating things that are just plain wrong. Please come up with something better or you’re no better than those ‘nerf cloaks’- trolls. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 4:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/178 "2021-02-26T16:41:10Z")
Make cloaks incompatible with cynos? ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 4:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/179 "2021-02-26T16:43:25Z")
Well no, that gives other issues. I like blops fleets. Those would be impossible when cynos are incompatible with cloaks. I don’t want to break CovOps cynos, I just want it to be impossible for a cloaky to light a cyno after a day of afk camping. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 4:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/180 "2021-02-26T16:47:12Z")
So you need the game to be redesigned to accommodate your idiosyncratic personal preferences? ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 4:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/181 "2021-02-26T16:52:03Z")
I don’t think I’m the only one who enjoys blops fleets, so no, I wouldn’t call my preference to not break CovOps cynos ‘idiosyncratic preferences’. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 4:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/182 "2021-02-26T16:56:18Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Except that bomber lighting a cyno when they uncloak also has your ship scrammed and webbed before your ship can get into warp, even if you have inhuman reflexes. So don’t get tackled? The bomber is pretty slow under cloak, use a MWD/MJD and fly randomly around the PvE site. They’ll never catch you except by sheer luck. Alternatively, have a PvP fleet, insta-pop the bomber as soon as it decloaks, and maybe even get some bonus killmails on whatever comes through the cyno. > I just want it to be impossible for a cloaky to light a cyno after a day of afk camping. But why? Why is it so bad for a ship to light a cyno after a long delay? (Answer: because it’s really bad for RMT botters if they can’t use local to guarantee their safety.) ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 5:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717/183 "2021-02-26T17:00:03Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Except that bomber lighting a cyno when they uncloak also has your ship scrammed and webbed before your ship can get into warp, even if you have inhuman reflexes. User error, fitting error, if you don’t want to be scrammed fit for it. Seriously, please learn to play. Also, lol, do you PvP at all? If they web you you warp away faster. Also lets not forget the scram will turn off after one cycle. You probably don’t know that either. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717.md?page=8) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cloaky-camping-from-a-wormholers-perspective/288717.md?page=10)