# CODE: From the Perspective of a Non-Miner **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Tags:** pve, pvp, high-sec\ **Created:** [July 30, 2020, 6:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/code-from-the-perspective-of-a-non-miner/257638 "2020-07-30T18:19:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 11:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/code-from-the-perspective-of-a-non-miner/257638/262 "2020-09-21T23:21:24Z")
> [@Vixie\_Trix](#): > > But calling someone stupid is harsh Nope. It’s 100% accurate. > could be they can’t be bothered too look stuff up So, stupid. > or they are not really invested in the game People who aren’t invested don’t have that level of ISK at all. ---
**Author:** ![Vixie\_Trix](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vixie_trix/32/204999_2.png) [@Vixie\_Trix](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vixie_Trix)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 11:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/code-from-the-perspective-of-a-non-miner/257638/263 "2020-09-21T23:22:20Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > People who aren’t invested don’t have that level of ISK at all. they could be droping cash in to get isk ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 11:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/code-from-the-perspective-of-a-non-miner/257638/264 "2020-09-21T23:23:57Z")
> [@Vixie\_Trix](#): > > they could be dropping cash in to get isk People who aren’t invested in a game don’t literally invest cash by RMTing. And if you RMT a bunch of ISK and lose it because you’re too stupid to learn how the game works, well, I think the label for you is obvious… ---
**Author:** ![Vixie\_Trix](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vixie_trix/32/204999_2.png) [@Vixie\_Trix](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vixie_Trix)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 11:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/code-from-the-perspective-of-a-non-miner/257638/265 "2020-09-21T23:26:24Z")
I see I see, your point is that anyone who doesn’t play the game exactly like you do is stupid. Anyone who isn’t after the same stuff you are is stupid. Real healthy attitude you got there, best of luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 11:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/code-from-the-perspective-of-a-non-miner/257638/266 "2020-09-21T23:29:20Z")
> [@Vixie\_Trix](#): > > I see I see, your point is that anyone who doesn’t play the game exactly like you do is stupid. No, my point is that people who make objectively bad decisions in the game for no reason but their own laziness or inability to accept how the game works are stupid, especially if/when they invest cash in RMTing their way to expensive lossmails. ---
**Author:** ![Vixie\_Trix](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vixie_trix/32/204999_2.png) [@Vixie\_Trix](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vixie_Trix)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 11:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/code-from-the-perspective-of-a-non-miner/257638/267 "2020-09-21T23:31:05Z")
It makes them bad players, does not make them stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 11:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/code-from-the-perspective-of-a-non-miner/257638/268 "2020-09-21T23:32:24Z")
> [@Vixie\_Trix](#): > > It makes them bad players, does not make them stupid Nope, it makes them stupid. Their inability to understand basic concepts is an inherent failure of intelligence, and if they’re throwing away cash on RMTing those expensive lossmails then we can add a lack of financial understanding to their list of sins. ---
**Author:** ![Vixie\_Trix](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vixie_trix/32/204999_2.png) [@Vixie\_Trix](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vixie_Trix)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 11:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/code-from-the-perspective-of-a-non-miner/257638/269 "2020-09-21T23:33:21Z")
😓 ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 11:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/code-from-the-perspective-of-a-non-miner/257638/270 "2020-09-21T23:36:31Z")
I’m going to side with Vixie. The lazy rich aren’t necessarily, inherently stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 11:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/code-from-the-perspective-of-a-non-miner/257638/271 "2020-09-21T23:39:49Z")
> [@Xeux](#): > > The lazy rich aren’t necessarily, inherently stupid. I’m assuming that most people RMTing expensive lossmails aren’t in the real world wealth level where blowing $100 on a video game is a trivial expense, and so RMTing and losing ISK recklessly is a meaningful IRL loss. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 11:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/code-from-the-perspective-of-a-non-miner/257638/272 "2020-09-21T23:46:10Z")
X-FEANOR probably is. ---
**Author:** ![Aaaarrgg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaaarrgg/32/395089_2.png) [@Aaaarrgg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaaarrgg)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 11:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/code-from-the-perspective-of-a-non-miner/257638/273 "2020-09-21T23:49:03Z")
I remember X-Fearnor happy days, wonder whats his new name. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 11:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/code-from-the-perspective-of-a-non-miner/257638/274 "2020-09-21T23:54:57Z")
> [@Vixie\_Trix](#): > > > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > > > The reality is that when we normalize the kills on a curve, most kills will hover close to the average value, but somewhat below it, because upper-end outliers have no limit. > > T do that you would have to get the average of every group of kills of similar value, and extrapolate the average out of that. Correct? > Still doesn’t show the actual picture but it’s much closer. So it’s a bit more to it than just taking the whole worth and dividing it with number of kills. No, to do that you find the mean of a sample, and then plot a distribution to calculate the variance. The result you’ll get will be a textbook example of probability theory; with values close to the mean making up the bulk of the sample. This will put code’s average kill value somewhere in the 150-175 million ISK range (their historic value is 260 million ISK, but over the past few years, the values of all kills have trended down considerably, not just for CODE., but for _everyone_, likely due to material raw resource inflation). Your claim that the outliers (Venture and 30-billion-ISK kills) drive the average value, while _mathematically_ sound, is actually impossible in practice, because both groups are actually **rare**. Most players outgrow Ventures, and most players can’t afford 30-billion-ISK ships. _Most_ players use fairly regular stuff, like T1/T2 barges for mining, or affordably-fit T1/faction battleships for missions. > [@Vixie\_Trix](#): > > But calling someone stupid is harsh, could be they can’t be bothered too look stuff up That’s called being ignorant, and being ignorant is even _worse_ that being stupid. At least stupid can be fixed. ---
**Author:** ![Vixie\_Trix](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vixie_trix/32/204999_2.png) [@Vixie\_Trix](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vixie_Trix)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2020, 11:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/code-from-the-perspective-of-a-non-miner/257638/275 "2020-09-21T23:58:31Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Your claim that the outliers (Venture and 30-billion-ISK kills) drive the average value that was just hypothetical example to make a point, not a claim. ---
**Author:** ![Vixie\_Trix](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vixie_trix/32/204999_2.png) [@Vixie\_Trix](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vixie_Trix)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2020, 12:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/code-from-the-perspective-of-a-non-miner/257638/276 "2020-09-22T00:00:54Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > and most players can’t afford 30-billion-ISK ships note that I mentioned a transport so that 30 bill would mean ship plus cargo. If you gonna insult me at least do it right. ---
**Author:** ![Aaaarrgg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaaarrgg/32/395089_2.png) [@Aaaarrgg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaaarrgg)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2020, 12:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/code-from-the-perspective-of-a-non-miner/257638/277 "2020-09-22T00:01:06Z")
to be fair i personally am dragging down the Code average by popping shuttles /rookie ships to get at the juicy pod goo inside, which for many years has been mostly empty. i suggest if you removed my kills from the CODE kills i would expect the average isk per kill to jump up massively. And i do mean a massive jump as i have killed a lot 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2020, 12:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/code-from-the-perspective-of-a-non-miner/257638/278 "2020-09-22T00:02:19Z")
You’re gonna have to start being really explicit and concrete in your writing, then. Absent of anything else, I go by what I see, and you said… > [@Vixie\_Trix](#): > > So I kill 1 10 bill transport and 20 1 Mill T1s and I can brag I shot down 21 ships worth 470 mill each from your standpoint than? …which is a really dishonest way to make an argument because you’re cherry-picking the data. ---
**Author:** ![Vixie\_Trix](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vixie_trix/32/204999_2.png) [@Vixie\_Trix](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vixie_Trix)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2020, 12:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/code-from-the-perspective-of-a-non-miner/257638/279 "2020-09-22T00:03:04Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > That’s called being ignorant, and being ignorant is even _worse_ that being stupid. At least stupid can be fixed. think it’s the other way around, you can fix ignorance with learning, stupid is incapable of learning therefor unfixable ---
**Author:** ![Vixie\_Trix](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vixie_trix/32/204999_2.png) [@Vixie\_Trix](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vixie_Trix)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2020, 12:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/code-from-the-perspective-of-a-non-miner/257638/280 "2020-09-22T00:05:27Z")
> [@Vixie\_Trix](#): > > So I kill 1 10 bill transport and 20 1 Mill T1s and I can brag I shot down 21 ships worth 470 mill each from your standpoint than? really? it’s not obvious from that text it is an example? ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2020, 12:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/code-from-the-perspective-of-a-non-miner/257638/281 "2020-09-22T00:05:33Z")
i have a policy for some time , i DON’T shoot rookie ships ,shuttles and ventures the dude can stop in front of me, ill not shoot him tired of loosing standing for shooting dam noobs [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/code-from-the-perspective-of-a-non-miner/257638.md?page=13) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/code-from-the-perspective-of-a-non-miner/257638.md?page=15)