# Coming Soon: Metaliminal Storms in Nullsec **URL:** \ **Category:** Upcoming Features & Changes\ **Tags:** null-sec, august\ **Created:** [August 4, 2020, 2:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/coming-soon-metaliminal-storms-in-nullsec/258511 "2020-08-04T14:39:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![CCP\_Fozzie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ccp_fozzie/32/476703_2.png) [@CCP\_Fozzie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CCP_Fozzie)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2020, 3:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/coming-soon-metaliminal-storms-in-nullsec/258511/507 "2020-08-14T15:55:17Z")
Hello again folks. The Metaliminal storms are now active on the Singularity test server for everyone to try out. Take a look and let us know what you think! ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2020, 4:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/coming-soon-metaliminal-storms-in-nullsec/258511/508 "2020-08-14T16:05:11Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > And really, this whole ‘moving 1 gate every 1-2 days’? As someone who just went through a hurricane and had to suffer a week of effects for ‘it was here for 2 hours because damn, that thing was cooking’, that’s not fun. A week or two for this thing to move through your stager? Or have it move _around_ your stager for a lot longer? > > Yeah, thanks, that’s kinda ■■■■■■■■, isn’t it? I think this relatively long duration is on purpose. As I understand it, the purpose of the storms is to shake stagnation in null up and encourage different gameplay. The storms need to be long enough to make the choice between _“let me create and buy a new fit to make optimal use of the storm’s effects”_ and _“let me wait a few hours until I can play normally again”_ in favour of the first option. Also, the storms need to be short enough that it doesn’t lead to stagnation again. Having the storm in your area for a few days up to a week sounds like a nice middle ground. I just hope the storms won’t get stuck. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2020, 4:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/coming-soon-metaliminal-storms-in-nullsec/258511/509 "2020-08-14T16:18:06Z")
> 7 total storms in nullsec? And the move one system per day? Interesting. Anyone testing on SISI know if it tells you which storm is located where? Or do you have to go visit the systems in person to learn it first hand? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2020, 4:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/coming-soon-metaliminal-storms-in-nullsec/258511/510 "2020-08-14T16:37:57Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > The storms need to be long enough to make the choice between _“let me create and buy a new fit to make optimal use of the storm’s effects”_ and _“let me wait a few hours until I can play normally again”_ in favour of the first option. ‘let me wait a few hours’ becomes ‘let me login _next month_’. > [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Having the storm in your area for a few days up to a week sounds like a nice middle ground. Except it’s not ‘up to a week’. If it moves through your area at 1 system per day, and it’s 7 systems wide, it’s _at least_ a week. But it doesn’t. It moves at 1 system every 1-2 days. And if the constellation isn’t a straight pipeline, it can bounce around in the constellation for a while. Again, look at the example I posted above, where it would affect 1dq1 for a full month _without_ any extra ‘doubling back’. If it makes a couple of loops around in that one triangular bit, it could be there for twice that. And that, as I said, _isn’t_ one of the bad bits of geography. It’s not hard to see a scenario where a storm bounces around the Deklein pentagram for over a year. And the purpose of these is to create bloodier battles, right? Care to look at Y-2 yesterday? ---
**Author:** ![Cade\_Windstalker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cade_windstalker/32/221037_2.png) [@Cade\_Windstalker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cade_Windstalker)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2020, 8:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/coming-soon-metaliminal-storms-in-nullsec/258511/511 "2020-08-14T20:03:47Z")
Hey @CCP_Fozzie is it possible for these Storms to stack on top of each other, or will they avoid moving on top of other Storms? If it is possible, what happens in a Weak and Strong storm of the same type overlap? Do the effects Stack or Overlap? This seems like it could have fairly significant effects. Not widespread ones, but significant. For example if a Gama Ray and Plasma Storm overlap each other and the effects stack then you could end up with -50% tracking and -25% signature radius, which seems like it would make it feel like the guns are loaded with wet noodles. ---
**Author:** ![Cade\_Windstalker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cade_windstalker/32/221037_2.png) [@Cade\_Windstalker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cade_Windstalker)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2020, 8:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/coming-soon-metaliminal-storms-in-nullsec/258511/512 "2020-08-14T20:05:30Z")
Small point here, it’s not guaranteed to affect any part of space for more than a day. It could just brush up against your region of space and run off, or it could stick around for upwards of a month as you said, though it’s likely the average would be somewhere on the lower end of things. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2020, 8:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/coming-soon-metaliminal-storms-in-nullsec/258511/513 "2020-08-14T20:34:36Z")
That’ll depend entirely on how many opportunities it has to change direction at the edge of regions, won’t it? For an example, let’s look at Delve. Once it’s _in_ Delve, it’s going to be moving through Imperium space until it leaves Delve. So the question becomes ‘what are the odds it comes into this region?’ From Fountain… it begins to effect Delve (ZXB) when it reaches WMH. If it avoids doubling back on itself, then it’s got somewhere between a 1/3 and 50% of chance of going into LBGI on the first pass. Otherwise… it’s gonna loop around that little square block and be forced into doubling back on its own track _somehow_. Once it hits LBGI, it’s impacting ZXB and 5-C, deeper into Delve. At that point, it’s either going to double back on itself, or it’s coming into Y-2, and then into ZXB, and then into 5-C, because pipeline systems w/only 2 gates. So now it’s in 5-C, and it can roam around in those dead-end loops for a bit, double back on itself, or move deeper into Delve. Let’s say it takes the general path outlined above, and exits Delve via E-VK, then 8-Y. If it doesn’t turn aside on the next two systems (call it 50/50 odds in each system, excluding double-back chances), then it powers right on into C3N, and back into Delve with a better than even chance of _not_ turning into LWX. In fact, over the next 3 moves, it’s got 3 different routes into 9GNS, and on back up into central Delve. At no point is _leaving_ Delve a greater likelihood than staying in, unless it goes down into the W-4U1E constellation and into W-KQPI. It _can’t_ exit through 1-SMEB-\>Sakht, either. And if it gets into RF-K9W and beyond, that whole set of 4 constellations is a dead end from which it can only— **eventually** —come right back out. And a _lot_ of nullsec is like that. Dead end branches 2-4 constellations deep. Catch has a massive _trio_ of interlocking circular tracks a storm could just keep going between. Tenerifis, it’d need to more or less rampage across 2/3 of the region in order to find another gate, unless it takes one of the few short-tracks. Detorid and Wicked Creek are back to interlocking rings of constellations, Immensea’s got a whole bunch of dead ends it’ll need to come back through for a week or more again. Period Basis, is a pipeline, sure. It’ll be in and through there fast. Scalding Pass? Scalding Pass is an interconnected _mess_. A storm in there will just twist and turn all over itself before looping through Curse and right back in. Or if it doesn’t loop pack in, there’s more dead end constellations to double-back through. This is going to be an unholy, oppressive _mess_. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2020, 8:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/coming-soon-metaliminal-storms-in-nullsec/258511/514 "2020-08-14T20:42:05Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > This is going to be an unholy, oppressive _mess_ . God, I hope so. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2020, 9:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/coming-soon-metaliminal-storms-in-nullsec/258511/515 "2020-08-14T21:05:57Z")
> [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > God, I hope so. Well, just remember what happened with last year’s oppressive mess of a way to make things bloodier: people opted out, CCP’s activity numbers dropped, and they walked it all back. There should be better ways to do space weather. Ways that don’t just make people not want to deal with them. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2020, 9:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/coming-soon-metaliminal-storms-in-nullsec/258511/516 "2020-08-14T21:10:30Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Well, just remember what happened with last year’s oppressive mess of a way to make things bloodier: people opted out, CCP’s activity numbers dropped, and they walked it all back. Oh well? > [@Arrendis](#): > > Ways that don’t just make people not want to deal with them. Sucks to suck? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2020, 9:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/coming-soon-metaliminal-storms-in-nullsec/258511/517 "2020-08-14T21:12:59Z")
> [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > Oh well? Hey, I like EVE. I think moves that make people stop playing, hurt the game’s bottom line, and leave less for everyone to do until the company has to retreat with their tail between their legs… those just aren’t great for the game. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2020, 11:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/coming-soon-metaliminal-storms-in-nullsec/258511/518 "2020-08-14T23:22:02Z")
How about if it gets stuck in a loop, it peters out and spawns somewhere else? And do these storms ever end and then respawn somewhere else? ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 8:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/coming-soon-metaliminal-storms-in-nullsec/258511/519 "2020-08-15T20:09:19Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > ‘let me wait a few hours’ becomes ‘let me login _next month_ ’. Well that’s your choice. If part of my space is affected by such a storm, I can either jump a couple of systems further, or adapt my playstyle to make use of the storm’s bonuses. But you’re right, it’s also an option not to do either and stop logging in for a month. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 8:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/coming-soon-metaliminal-storms-in-nullsec/258511/520 "2020-08-15T20:14:38Z")
I’m still not convince that these will be so bad that krabs stop logging in… Like… how many krabbing ships are so delicately balanced that a tiny change like this will make or break them? Double rep Myrms, Gilas, and Domis are all common, and all can easily tank whatever incoming DPS with plenty more tank to spare. Like, at worst, you may have to swap a rig or replace a module with a Cap recharger (wow) because your cap is slightly less stable. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 8:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/coming-soon-metaliminal-storms-in-nullsec/258511/521 "2020-08-15T20:52:55Z")
> [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > Double rep Myrms, Gilas, and Domis are all common, and all can easily tank whatever incoming DPS with plenty more tank to spare. Like, at worst, you may have to swap a rig or replace a module with a Cap recharger (wow) because your cap is slightly less stable. Until you get hit with the one that torpedoes the resist you absolutely need. Then… yeah, the ships the krabs use tend to be extremely tuned toward ‘I have just enough tank to let me stack capacitor so I can AFK this crap and kill it with drones’. > [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > If part of my space is affected by such a storm, I can either jump a couple of systems further, or adapt my playstyle to make use of the storm’s bonuses. Right, so, you’re a ratter up in the Dek pentagram. You hunt Guristas stuff. An Exotic storm comes through, killing your Kinetic resists _and_ making your shield reps cost more cap per second (which, you know, Fozzie’s framed as buffing your rep rate, which is also happening, but that only lasts until you can’t turn it or your hardeners on). In exchange, you get the aforementioned higher rep rate, you warp faster, and you lock faster. Also, the guys coming to kill you warp faster, and they lock you faster. So that’s kind of a wash. Now, you could move out of your comfortable pocket… and believe you me, it _is_ a comfortable pocket. You’‘re on the side of a pipe between Branch and Fade, but you’ve got a few systems’ warning as long as your alliance-mates in SSM are paying attention to local. Still, you could move out. There’s a whole other constellation to exploit. Mind you, that’s on the edge of Branch, and someone else’s space, so you’re pretty much screwed on warning time for hunters coming through in that direction. And with nobody in the storm-impacted systems, you don’t have much warning there, either… So, in addition to having to compete for anoms with your alliance-mates in 7 systems instead of 17, you’re more likely to get tackled. Oh, and after the first storm rolls through, the roaming gangs know your _other_ constellation is a target-rich hunting ground, so they come sniffing around more to start. Same story’d play out in any of the other constellations of Deklein, mind you, just without the chance of the storm bouncing around in there for a year or more. Or, you know, pretty much anywhere else in null. At the same time, you know who gets impacted by this the least? FRT. NCPL. Horde. Legacy. The Imperium, assuming we hold onto Delve in this war. All the big groups people constantly ■■■■■ about _have_ the space to shift around. The small groups, who hold a single constellation someplace like Dek or Tribute? They’re a lot more screwed. And that’s not a ‘think of the children’ thing, either. That’s just pointing out, as I do every time CCP comes up with one of these changes that depresses activity: the bigger groups will always adapt _better_. Always. We’ll be fine, PvE-wise. For us, this annoyance is an annoyance in _warfare_, and one that will suppress, not encourage, bloody fights. You think TEST fields [a raven fleet](https://fleetcom.space/battlereport/3ThmH9pxxizQNChqe) in a system with -90% remote reps? You think _anyone_ risks expensive toys like HACs in those conditions? 400 Cormorants shooting one another and reshipping isn’t a ‘bloodier’ fight, it’s a _slapfight_. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 10:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/coming-soon-metaliminal-storms-in-nullsec/258511/522 "2020-08-15T22:45:48Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Until you get hit with the one that torpedoes the resist you absolutely need. …then take a DDA off and replace it with a resist mod? How difficult is this? This has to be bait. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 11:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/coming-soon-metaliminal-storms-in-nullsec/258511/523 "2020-08-15T23:41:46Z")
You’d be surprised how many of them will just refuse to reduce their isk/hr. And miners in that situation already have their mids devoted to tank. Really, that whole Exotic is Exhumer-bait, too. 'More ore! Mine faster! (does that include strip miners?) More local reps for your Exhumer! Just pray you don’t need to be able to sustain it, because your mining speed comes at the cost of cap life… and so does the ‘buff’ to local reps. And then your whole tank shuts off when you run out of cap, anyway. But those sabres warp to you faster now, so it’s all good, right? ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 12:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/coming-soon-metaliminal-storms-in-nullsec/258511/524 "2020-08-16T00:00:10Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > But those sabres warp to you faster now, so it’s all good, right? Given how good krabshits have had it since 2016, I’d say yeah. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 2:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/coming-soon-metaliminal-storms-in-nullsec/258511/525 "2020-08-16T02:37:35Z")
Except, again, look at what happens when they stop showing up: the hunters have nothing to hunt, and then _they_ get pissy and leave, too. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 2:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/coming-soon-metaliminal-storms-in-nullsec/258511/526 "2020-08-16T02:43:52Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > the hunters have nothing to hunt, and then _they_ get pissy and leave, too. Ok? But that’s not my problem, is it? That’s CCP’s problem. I couldn’t care less. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/coming-soon-metaliminal-storms-in-nullsec/258511.md?page=25) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/coming-soon-metaliminal-storms-in-nullsec/258511.md?page=27)