Community Fittings Discussion


(ISD Fractal) #1

Please use this thread for discussion of the Community Fittings project.


Community Fittings Guidelines & FAQ
Community Ship Fittings – Die dritte Welle beginnt!
(ISD Fractal) #2

(Chance Ravinne) #5

The intention of this project to eventually have fits for every ship? Will ships have multiple fittings? How will ships with more widely varying uses be assigned? For instance, what would be the single use designation for a caracal or a Tengu?

Another question, presumably this feature will not go live until around or after the major upgrade to Alpha clone skill sets. Would we need to know what these changes are in order to recommend ideal fittings?


(MrAktilos MrAktilos) #6

I think this is intended for new players to the game mostly, so ships like the tengu and most other t2/t3 hulls will fall away. For hulls like the caracal they maybe coumd add subsections for pve/pvp and have maybe 1 exemplary fit for long range and short range. As far as I understand this is intended as a first guide line to a ship and not a full on fitting guide. There are soo many ways to fit every single hull for every purpose, making it imo impossible to cover everything. So maybe limitating to 2-3 basic fits for pve and 2-3 for pve will be the best idear. In the end the players should learn how to fit there own ships anyway


(Krima Sumyungi) #7

Sorry, but I just see this turning into another osmium or other fitting sites, a bunch of trolls and idiot players putting up useless fittings with a few decent ones scattered in between if you can find them.

Don’t bother. It’s far easier just to ask someone in game, who is actually using the ship you want to fit effectively already, for their fit.


(Memphis Baas) #8

I have two suggestions:

  1. Meta will change in 6 months and the “good fittings” of today won’t be all that great tomorrow. This is fine for now, but you need to implement a system for players to change or publish their fittings (and comments) right out of the ghost fitting screen. And also a system for searching all the “public” fittings similar to searching for a corp. And usage statistics, and a thumbs up / down rating system, so newbies can see stats like “most used fitting for this ship”, “most liked”, etc.

  2. Alternatively, pull statistics for each ship in game, who has used it the most, and offer that person / group of people the opportunity to submit their fittings. Periodically. It would be cool if you could grant the experts at each ship (or task, or FC’ing, or whatever), “power player” status, where they have the ability to EDIT / WIKI some in-game “additional information” tabs, so that your game has a built-in wiki that anyone (regular players, newbies) can access by just clicking Show Info. We’re more than willing to contribute and share on the forums and on 3rd party fan sites, why not in-game too?


(xHjfx) #9

Just regarding the blog post:

There is one drawback though, these site and projects are not native to the EVE client. Especially for new or casual players, this can be a big hurdle.

If only there was some kind of method of viewing websites and interacting with them in the client… say an ingame browser accessing a site that utilized ESI? :roll_eyes:


(Mike Azariah) #10

May I suggest we have secondary labels to the fittings

Alpha
DPS
Fleet
Gang
Solo

etc to help people when searching. Especially alpha as those will be the one which I work the most on. Labeling will make searching easier and allow for us to revise or delete one if there are balance passes (as are coming soon to frigates)

ah, I see such tags exist . . . good. dammit, I should, read before I speak, eh?

m


(Toxic Yaken) #11

Are there any plans to guide newer players to the community fittings as part of the tutorial or just following the tutorial?


(Hotrod Justice) #12

I appreciate what you are trying to do here - but I think that the long term maintenance of this project is too expensive when the external resources are doing an OK job.

If you want to make fittings easier to access here are my suggestions regarding fitting:

  1. When I am looking at the Show info screen for a ship, show me a list/tab of the fits (personal and corp) I already have saved. This would help me when someone says “Can you fly X?” Followed by “Do you have a fit for it?”
  2. When looking at a fit - it shows me if I can use a module, but not the ship. Fix that.
  3. Give us a “Notes” tab to include with the fit so we can save a few personal details about the fit in game.
  4. More complex: Show me the skills needed to fly/use the fitting selected and if I have injected the skillbook.

If you are looking to provide some basic fits for people to get started - then just make some low SP fits (T1-Meta) for T1 ships up to battleships and give me the choice to see game, personal, or corp fits. These aren’t meant to be optimal but just get someone started.

I think the above items would cover about 90% of what a newer player needs to know when it comes to fitting a ship. Corp mates and 3rd party sites can make up the other 10% without you having to manage/moderate it long term.

GL


(Sabriz Adoudel) #13

This is an excellent idea if it has sensible oversight.

Whilst I customize fits when required, I spend a lot more time piloting very standard disposable fits. Especially my go to gank Catalyst and Vexor fits.

This needs some serious refinement by role, however.

For instance a close range brawler fit Vexor, and a sentry/rail fit gank Vexor have nothing in common despite being the same hull, while a brawler fit Maller will be very similar to the former despite being a different hull.


(Antei Thantonne) #14

How will this project and the module tiericide effort affect one another? If Community Fittings ends up with many novice fits that use old meta 4 weapons (especially for medium and large ships, where new player weapon skills may require them), will this convince CCP that completing tiericide and upending the Fittings library is a bad idea after all?

At EVE University, we have struggled to keep novice ship fits posted to the UniWiki up-to-date with each successive tiericide change to module names and stats. And sure, this has been one more reason for players to complain about ship fits found on our Wiki. You might imagine this would make UniWiki editors like me hate tiericide. On the contrary! Module tiericide has had an incredibly positive impact on our newest members’ ship fits. New Unistas are able to make simple substitutions to posted fits, using information in the newly tiericided module name, to help them squeeze into ships they otherwise might not have the skills to fly. (“Don’t have enough CPU or PG? There’s probably a Compact variant for that. Keep running out of cap? Try the Enduring variant!”) Module tiericide has evened out the market price differential of meta module versions, such that for most tiericided module series, all variants are reasonably affordable to cash-strapped new pilots. And maybe most importantly, tiericided module names and stats help new pilots make intelligent choices about ship fitting without thinking too hard about it. I understand that a primary goal of Community Fittings is to make things simple for new pilots. Well, module tiericide makes things simple for new pilots.

So I am confused about the sequence of these two efforts. Completing weapons tiericide first would certainly not hurt Community Fittings; I would argue it would help it, by guaranteeing that fits with meta 4 guns do not have to be re-worked. But I worry that completing Community Fittings first will finally spell the end of tiericide. It will create a reason not to tiericide weapons, and a Community of Fitters opposed to making tiericide changes to their posted fits. I ask that CCP consider initiating weapons tiericide simultaneously with Community Fittings–maybe with small weapons only, at first, if the overall effort seems too great–as one of the final steps towards the victorious completion of the tiericide project. Then, at least small-ship Community ship fits (the ones used most by our newest pilots) will not have to undergo future module changes.


(Jaantrag) #15

Community Fittings … after reading the info about it its meh … for new guys probobly good starting point to see how things are done …

But when i first saw the titel my first toght was something like mailing list for fittings … allaiance/coalition doctrines shared to everyone with ease and when something is changed everyone can get it right off … so yea … the current thing u are doing should be just basic fits… descriptions added about how to improve it in the future …


(Cristl) #16

My Raven was equipped with the following:


(CCP Phantom) #17

Thanks for all the interesting feedback and fantastic contribution so far! I have tried to answer as many questions as possible in the following. Please have a look!


Q: The intention of this project to eventually have fits for every ship?
A: The idea here is to provide reasonably good ship fits for popular activities early on. The community fittings should be a stepping stone leading deeper into EVE, not a means to cover all and everything. We are not desperate to have ship fittings for every possible ship.

Q: Will ships have multiple fittings? How will ships with more widely varying uses be assigned? For instance, what would be the single use designation for a caracal or a Tengu?
A: If it makes sense, we will have multiple threads for a ship depending on its purpose. The purpose of the ship will be mentioned in the intial post of a thread and the thread title.

Q: Presumably this feature will not go live until around or after the major upgrade to Alpha clone skill sets. Would we need to know what these changes are in order to recommend ideal fittings?
A: If fitting requirements change, we will open a new thread for that ship. Ideally, fitting threads are open only for a certain amount of time to prevent confusion. Unless stated otherwise, fitting suggestions should be based on the current set of skills and stats on Tranquility.

Q: I think this is intended for new players to the game mostly, so ships like the tengu and most other t2/t3 hulls will fall away.
A: That is correct. At the moment, this is mainly aimed towards new or inexperienced players. You won’t see requests for purple fitted Tengus any time soon. :slight_smile:

Q: Meta will change in 6 months and the “good fittings” of today won’t be all that great tomorrow. This is fine for now…
A: We aim to provide “reasonably ok” fittings. Our goal is not to provide “the best of the best of the best”, this should be best left to the players. In general, I would like to address a concern that these community fittings could “dumb down” the game and take away the exciting hunt for top performance. Providing a reasonable ok starting point will actually help new players to play around with module combinations without getting overwhelmed in the first place. This can incite players to enjoy trying various combinations, diving deeper into EVE without getting unnecessary frustrated.

Q: Are there any plans to guide newer players to the community fittings as part of the tutorial or just following the tutorial?
A: This is an interesting suggestion! I will point the dev team working on the New Player Experience to this idea.

Q: I think that the long term maintenance of this project is too expensive when the external resources are doing an OK job.
A: Please keep in mind that community fittings cover only the first step. We do not aim to replace external resources (which are doing a fantastic job, big thanks!). Quite the contrary! The community fittings will have links to the forum post (which can include links to EVE Uni fittings, osmium and other sites). This should actually boost traffic to these sites.

Q: How will this project and the module tiericide effort affect one another?
A: Tiercide is not affected or influenced by this project. On the other hand, whenever we change module/ship/skill requirements or stats, we will create a new thread if necessary.


(Super Perforator) #18

I think this is actually a bad idea.
Learning about ship fittings is part of the game.
Is there a “best” fitting? What is going to happen when a new player uses the “best” fitting and still gets wiped off the floor? Reimbursement?
More hand holding is a bad idea… really. We all learned to play EVE.


(FearlessLittleToaster) #19

I know this seems like a silly idea and extra effort, but it might make sense to create a space to showcase “fail fits” with the reasons why. Doing stuff wrong can be more informative than doing it right, and understanding the reasons for why a fit just doesn’t work is a great learning point. Having players be able to access accurate discussion on why that is would be cool.

Now, this is extra effort and dev time etc… and I have no idea how to keep it from turning into a bunch of idiocy and trolling. But hey, worth a thought at least.


(Angelina Is) #20

I think PvP and PvE labels are enough, let the players sort their stuff out (even before i began playing eve i knew the exact meta fittings so they should be able to get their stuff sorted, i think they should do it like in the eveger https://www.eveger.de/forum/forumdisplay.php?40-EVE-Schiffe-und-Fitting like this )


(Kujo Minowara) #21

I remember when I started the game and I fitted my ships in ways that I later learned didn’t make any sense. I am seeing this now with some friends who picked up playing recently, and are doing stuff that to me is really dumb and even costed them dearly. If the game can direct you to reasonable basic ways to fit a ship, that you can later tweak to your specific needs, it’s in my opinion a huge improvement of life for newbros.

I think the idea of guiding new players to the community fittings within the tutorial is a good thing. If you do that you might even go a step further and give a generic explanation of the basis of fitting during the tutorial, like avoid double tank, check if the ship is more inclined towards one type of tank pointing at the icons in the description, and the difference between long range and short range turrets. I don’t know if the tutorial already does that stuff.


(Super Perforator) #22

Um… I disagree.
I’ve seen such things in other MMOs… training plans and so on.
Although you would wish that it encourages players to try various combinations… it will, in fact, just lead to a lot of forum (for example) whining by entitled brats.

The sorts of players that would be incited to play around would also do it without “community” fittings.
They would google, and maybe check out fittings on (for example) the EVE UNI pages. If they could do that on an in-game browser… that would be so much the better.