# Concurrent/Peak Players, Retention, New Player Experience **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Tags:** pve, low-sec, high-sec\ **Created:** [July 31, 2025, 6:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/concurrent-peak-players-retention-new-player-experience/494671 "2025-07-31T18:21:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Bibosikus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bibosikus/32/379586_2.png) [@Bibosikus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bibosikus)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2025, 3:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/concurrent-peak-players-retention-new-player-experience/494671/162 "2025-09-02T15:44:01Z")
Eve has just got too big a time sink and too expensive to justify it being kept around when there are new better options for less and real life has become a real chore. It makes me sad but its that simple. I use to keep 2 accounts subbed just for the sake of it but the cost of doing that has nearly doubled. As we all know you can’t really play eve at all with 1 account in any practical way. CCP should try for 1 year to lower sub costs to the same as if you paid 2 years upfront and see what happens i would probably go back to side subbing 2 accounts. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2025, 3:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/concurrent-peak-players-retention-new-player-experience/494671/163 "2025-09-02T15:45:53Z")
> [@Vokan\_Narkar](#): > > Really. I claimed that most of the group PVE content in EVE is either ignored or done by multiboxers and that there isn’t even content that would require this many players. You quoted this my statement and wrote that in Albion players can toggle friendly-fire. I assumed that it was an argument as to why this works in Albion and not EVE. If it wasn’t, then why did you even post it? It has no relevance. What I referred to is that Albion has those unorganized 100+ man PvE raids because it enforces ‘allies’. In EVE you cannot open your low sec mining fleet to random players to join because many of the ‘fleet members’ that join you will in fact come to kill you. In Albion this isn’t possible, because friendly fire isn’t possible. That’s what I meant. While in EVE you too have large groups doing PvE it isn’t going to be like the unorganized chaotic big faction warfare groups of Albion (which I enjoyed), but needs some kind of organization either in alliance context or in NPSI context. Big fleets doing PvE in EVE with random players do exist, but then it’s player-organized NPSI incursion fleets who will ban you if you come to kill fleet members, rather than game-organized faction warfare groups of Albion who have a no-friendly-fire policy enforced through game mechanics. ---
**Author:** ![Srima\_Darkstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/srima_darkstar/32/374461_2.png) [@Srima\_Darkstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Srima_Darkstar)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2025, 3:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/concurrent-peak-players-retention-new-player-experience/494671/164 "2025-09-02T15:57:38Z")
Saying a game is number one, doesn’t make it true. Youtube has list videos all the time. You get served exactly what the video maker’s opinion is and nothing more. ---
**Author:** ![Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geo_eclipse_oksaras/32/500781_2.png) [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2025, 4:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/concurrent-peak-players-retention-new-player-experience/494671/165 "2025-09-02T16:28:41Z")
right, but comparing a MMO to non MMO’s?? why ---
**Author:** ![John\_Rochard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/john_rochard/32/373864_2.png) [@John\_Rochard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/John_Rochard)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2025, 6:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/concurrent-peak-players-retention-new-player-experience/494671/166 "2025-09-02T18:47:30Z")
> [@Malak\_Starfire](#): > > None of these games are MMOs, which you left off in your quote. Don’t take things out of context. Obviously you skimmed over the text. Obviously your comprehension on what I wrote is your issue and not mine. > [@John\_Rochard](#): > > Honestly it would be unfair to compare Eve Online to a top 20 first person shooter like Counter-Strike 2 or EA’s Apex Legends. I never made any claim to them being MMO’s. I was saying your search criteria can influence the results greatly in your favor. @Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras why don’t you scroll up and inspect the text before commenting? It only results in showing me you did not read. You are only knee jerk reacting. ---
**Author:** ![Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geo_eclipse_oksaras/32/500781_2.png) [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2025, 6:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/concurrent-peak-players-retention-new-player-experience/494671/167 "2025-09-02T18:50:48Z")
i did read. Malak asked the top MMO games and you started spitting about the top pvp games… > [@Malak\_Starfire](#): > > So here’s a question, are the **top 50 mmos** all games that are “alive”? **Top 20**? Where do you place that mark? to which you went on to spew about x4 and other games that are CLEARLY not MMOs Which according to GamesRadar, EVE is #5 in the top 10 MMOs. heres what AI says about the #1 space sim MMO for 2025 There is no definitive “#1” space sim MMO for 2025, as game popularity is subjective and depends on player preference, but **EVE Online** remains the most prominent and established free-to-play option with its vast player-driven world and deep economic and combat systems. ---
**Author:** ![Malak\_Starfire](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/malak_starfire/32/501915_2.png) [@Malak\_Starfire](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Malak_Starfire)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2025, 7:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/concurrent-peak-players-retention-new-player-experience/494671/168 "2025-09-02T19:26:32Z")
EVE is an MMO, a space MMO, maybe even a survival MMO. It is not a 4x game, nor a FPS (though other CCP games would fall under either of those game types). I clearly went for the broadest category of MMO, you went into nonsense that is not part of the question nor the topic of this thread. My point of asking the question was to shed light on the fact that EVE Online is actually doing well (yes they aren’t the best) and that it is not a dying game, which the person I asked the question of saw, acknowledged and specified what the points they were saying. ---
**Author:** ![Vokan\_Narkar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vokan_narkar/32/326293_2.png) [@Vokan\_Narkar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vokan_Narkar)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2025, 3:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/concurrent-peak-players-retention-new-player-experience/494671/169 "2025-09-03T15:27:07Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > What I referred to is that Albion has those unorganized 100+ man PvE raids because it enforces ‘allies’. > > In EVE you cannot open your low sec mining fleet to random players to join because many of the ‘fleet members’ that join you will in fact come to kill you. > > In Albion this isn’t possible, because friendly fire isn’t possible. > > That’s what I meant. > > While in EVE you too have large groups doing PvE it isn’t going to be like the unorganized chaotic big faction warfare groups of Albion (which I enjoyed), but needs some kind of organization either in alliance context or in NPSI context. > > Big fleets doing PvE in EVE with random players do exist, but then it’s player-organized NPSI incursion fleets who will ban you if you come to kill fleet members, rather than game-organized faction warfare groups of Albion who have a no-friendly-fire policy enforced through game mechanics. To some extent perhaps. But safeety is not the concern in highsec where we have: -Incursions (old group pve content, used to “work” perfectly in my old days, but I have no recent knowledge of the status of this content, so I will avoid claiming anything) - NPC mining fleets and their response fleets (first of the new content designed for group of players, now totally ignored except of strategies how to solo the hauler before the response fleet arrives and get away with it) - FOBs (soloed woth single ship or multiboxing from the very beginning and it is still happening. Few larger corporations like EVE Uni occassionally running these, but mostly multibox afaik) - Homefronts (largely ignored now by real players, multiboxed 24/7 though) Also, unorganized PvP fleets do exists in EVE and they face the same issues of betrayal, so why doesn’t PVE unorganized fleets? I do agree that something like fleet not allowing to shoot each other directly and preventing to face security status penalties/being concorded when beign struck by aoe weapon systems from fleet members would be nice and would probably help this game. But I don’t think it is the reason for group PVE to be ignored or soloed (with multiboxing). I believe there are two reasons for this: 1. You can multibox it, so why wouldn’t you? Multiboxing allows you to do the group content, which has typically much better rewards than soloable content, anytime you want it. No need to wait for other players to login and no need to split with them which is very often a problem since you are not getting liquid ISKies. Often the loot distribution causes bad blood between participants as they often thinks that they deserve more because they contribute more than others. 2. Less actual players = harder to find peoples to do this content with. Especially when CCP is herding players to nullsec alliances, then what happens is that highsec is primarily occupuied by players who play solo or minicorps as those who are willing to play with group are in null. And since in EVE every system is a farm zone even for veterans it means that all these solo players in highsec are scattered between those 1200 highsec systems we have and that means you are not meeting the other players which then contributes to the issue of not being able to find friends. I really don’t know why you wh and nullsec players are so much against trimming down the known space. What do you benefit from EVE being so wast specifically that you are against it? Do you really believe that if we trim 1200 highsec systems to 1080 (-10%) that players will mass quit playing EVE because we took their farm lands? ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2025, 3:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/concurrent-peak-players-retention-new-player-experience/494671/170 "2025-09-03T15:51:03Z")
> [@Vokan\_Narkar](#): > > Also, unorganized PvP fleets do exists in EVE and they face the same issues of betrayal, so why doesn’t PVE unorganized fleets? What kind of unorganized PvP exists in EVE? As far as I know it’s all organized by either friends, corporations and alliances or NPSI communities. There may be some faction warfare fleets but they too will have social checks to kick any awoxers, unlike Albion. PvE is often in non-combat ships, while PvP ships are able to fight back. The ‘PvE’ raids you talk about in Albion are in combat gear if these are the faction warfare raids I remember. The only people in those raids in non-combat gear are using the relative safety of numbers to do hauling runs through the red zones to Caerleon. ---
**Author:** ![Vokan\_Narkar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vokan_narkar/32/326293_2.png) [@Vokan\_Narkar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vokan_Narkar)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2025, 4:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/concurrent-peak-players-retention-new-player-experience/494671/171 "2025-09-03T16:01:06Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > What kind of unorganized PvP exists in EVE? As far as I know it’s all organized by either friends, corporations and alliances or NPSI communities. There may be some faction warfare fleets but they too will have social checks to kick any awoxers, unlike Albion. I meant spectre fleet or OnlyFleets. But I guess we have different definition of what unorganized means. What I thought you mean by that is that random players plays together. If this is not what you mean then what does unorganized group/fleet? ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2025, 4:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/concurrent-peak-players-retention-new-player-experience/494671/172 "2025-09-03T16:03:54Z")
Unorganized fleets don’t exist in EVE, which was my point. Unorganized PvE raids in Albion do exist, because the game itself enforces allies and enemies when you flag up for a faction, which makes friendly fire impossible. I often joined unorganized raids in Albion by just following the blob of other players of my faction. Such gameplay isn’t possible in EVE as there is friendly fire here. In EVE you cannot join a large fleet unless you go looking for a group that organizes one. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/1/41ec4921cbaca7a6f9ea556e7cc20018461eae5e.png) [@system](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2025, 4:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/concurrent-peak-players-retention-new-player-experience/494671/173 "2025-12-02T16:04:22Z")
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