# COSMOS Sites Are Broken AF! **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [October 16, 2021, 6:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cosmos-sites-are-broken-af/332819 "2021-10-16T18:36:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Twijn\_Sunz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/twijn_sunz/32/289865_2.png) [@Twijn\_Sunz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Twijn_Sunz)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 2:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cosmos-sites-are-broken-af/332819/147 "2021-10-20T14:33:21Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Anyway, you and your alt can continue posting your BS replies, I have much better things to do …❤… (Since the forum is tightwad on hearts…) ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 2:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cosmos-sites-are-broken-af/332819/148 "2021-10-20T14:33:23Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Performing timely quality work is a prerequisite for employment, whether you’re a Chef, a Pipefitter, a Garage Mechanic, a Bartender, a Painter, a Teacher, etc, etc A chef puts the chicken in the oven. His employer (head chef) is desperate to get the food to the table. The head chef takes out the chicken early…… plates up and gives to the servers. The customer complains. Who is incompetent. The chef or the head chef. You are crediting worker bees with far more autonomy than they actually have ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 2:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cosmos-sites-are-broken-af/332819/149 "2021-10-20T14:38:02Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Brisc initiated a confrontation with me because he didn’t like me saying ‘the content wouldn’t need to be fixed if CCP actually hired competent programmers’. If by “initiated a confrontation” you mean I politely disagreed with your statement, then sure. I mean, if all it takes to “initiate a confrontation” with you is to say “I don’t think you’re being fair here” well, you must be aces to work with. ---
**Author:** ![Mkikaden\_Tiragen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mkikaden_tiragen/32/243913_2.png) [@Mkikaden\_Tiragen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mkikaden_Tiragen)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 2:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cosmos-sites-are-broken-af/332819/150 "2021-10-20T14:38:58Z")
And you are illustrating that you do not comprehend the differences in work type between physical production of goods and development of code. Unlike in manufacturing, in code, a product can be released with defects because they _do not pose a risk to anyone’s health_. The worst thing that happens is a customer is unhappy - but barring code for very niche purposes, nobody will be injured by the software having a bug. As such, executives tend to say ‘I care more about putting my product on the shelves than making my product the best it can be’ and _do not allocate enough time in the project to deliver a bug-free product_. This is not because the coders are doing bad work. It is because they are not being allowed to do _all_ of the work. Consider a house renovation. The general contractor has estimated 8 weeks to complete the renovation based on an inspection. They discover in week 2 that the whole house electrical needs to be replaced. The house will not be signed off on by the city inspectors until that is done, and they cannot get a certificate of occupancy, so the work _has_ to be done, and the project may be delayed as a result. This is not the fault of any of the contractor’s employees - they didn’t know about the old electrical, nor can they make the work get done in less time. Would you blame those workers for the issues that came up? The difference in code is (again, barring a very few situations) there is no inspector who says ‘you have to do X or you cannot let anyone into the server’, so the **company** elects to not take the extra time necessary to fix the issue. Edit to add: I am not excusing CCP. I am saying the **executives** are to blame, not the programmers. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 2:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cosmos-sites-are-broken-af/332819/151 "2021-10-20T14:48:07Z")
> [@Mkikaden\_Tiragen](#): > > Unlike in manufacturing, in code, a product can be released with defects because they _do not pose a risk to anyone’s health_. Yeah right, tell that to all the patients in hospitals hooked up to machines that are programed with code. Anyway, I stopped reading your reply right there because like I said earlier, I DON’T CARE… You don’t work for CCP and I don’t want to hear BS excuses trying to rationalize and validate shoddy work ethics. Nuff said already. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 2:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cosmos-sites-are-broken-af/332819/152 "2021-10-20T14:49:49Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > I mean, if all it takes to “initiate a confrontation” with you is to say “I don’t think you’re being fair here” well, you must be aces to work with. It’s a forum, Brisc. All it takes to fact check you is to scroll up. Yet you keep talking like we’re in a cafe or something where nothing is being recorded and you can say, “No I didn’t” and through shear bullheadedness, get away with it. Mr Epeen 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 2:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cosmos-sites-are-broken-af/332819/153 "2021-10-20T14:50:27Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Yeah right, tell that to all the patients in hospitals hooked up to machines that are programed with code I didn’t know eve did that. Wow it’s amazing what you learn on these forums. Did eve always do this? Or was it introduced in a recent patch. ---
**Author:** ![Mkikaden\_Tiragen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mkikaden_tiragen/32/243913_2.png) [@Mkikaden\_Tiragen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mkikaden_Tiragen)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 2:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cosmos-sites-are-broken-af/332819/154 "2021-10-20T14:51:55Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > shoddy work ethics. You’re right - it’s shoddy work ethic _on the part of the executives_. Not the programmers. If you have a job that requires 700 man hours of labor and only have workers for 500 man hours because the company will not pay for more, do you blame the workers when stuff is left undone or the company? ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 2:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cosmos-sites-are-broken-af/332819/155 "2021-10-20T14:52:08Z")
> [@Mr\_Epeen](#): > > It’s a forum, Brisc. All it takes to fact check you is to scroll up. Then feel free to do that, and you’ll see my original remark to DeMichael was exactly what I said it was: > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > This really isn’t fair. The problem is not the current programmers, it’s the old ones who originally put the broken stuff in the game. The current ones can fix it, but it would take far too long for providing little actual benefit for them to agree to do it. Everything they assign a team to costs money and if they aren’t going to recover the cost, there’s little reason to do it. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 3:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cosmos-sites-are-broken-af/332819/156 "2021-10-20T15:00:46Z")
The problem is the fact that he’s a CSM member who keeps saying he represents the players while taking a stance that providing shoddy work for profit is perfectly acceptable and more important than fixing long term issues plaguing the game. On top of that he took offense with a statement I made about the quality of work currently being implemented by CCP and made it personal, just because he’s buddy’s with a few Dev’s. ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 3:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cosmos-sites-are-broken-af/332819/157 "2021-10-20T15:08:06Z")
It’s a bit like when you have a lawyer representing you and fails to get you the verdict you want. At no point did that lawyer guarantee you an outcome. CSM is a bit like that. They can put forward community points of view but I must have missed the part about them being able to guarantee CCP will act on those concerns. The way some of you guys react to the CSM reporting back an honest assessment of the situation and why something won’t be a priority for CCP is so disproportionate it’s difficult to fathom. Lol ---
**Author:** ![Chan\_aar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chan_aar/32/377560_2.png) [@Chan\_aar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chan_aar)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 3:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cosmos-sites-are-broken-af/332819/158 "2021-10-20T15:08:48Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > In this day and age give me an example of any team, be it development, construction or customer service the isn’t under resourced and I’ll be astounded. CCP’s monetization and / or SKINS recolouring team? They seem to be well staffed and active. ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 3:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cosmos-sites-are-broken-af/332819/159 "2021-10-20T15:09:36Z")
Yay we have a winner. Not quite QAnon standard but I like it ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 3:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cosmos-sites-are-broken-af/332819/160 "2021-10-20T15:09:52Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > The problem is the fact that he’s a CSM member who keeps saying he represents the players while taking a stance that providing shoddy work for profit is perfectly acceptable and more important than fixing long term issues plaguing the game. You know, after all of your complaining that people are twisting your words, you probably owe it to the rest of us not to do exactly that. I have never said I’m okay with anybody providing “shoddy work for profit.” What I said was that your claim that the current programmers are incompetent because of bugs that have been in the game for years isn’t fair. This is a massive game, it has plenty of bugs, plenty of things that need to be fixed, redesigned or made to function better. Choosing what to work on is difficult, and the folks who make those decisions are motivated by profit. As has been told to you by multiple people now, the programmers you’re crapping on don’t get to decide (for the most part) what they get to work on, and they don’t get unlimited resources (time, money, team members) to do it with. This is an 18 year old game. Your 18 year old car breaks down, do you blame the current design guys at the company who built it? Apparently you do, I guess. > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > On top of that he took offense with a statement I made about the quality of work currently being implemented by CCP and made it personal, just because he’s buddy’s with a few Dev’s. /sigh I didn’t take offense. I just said you weren’t being fair, and it has nothing to do with being buddies with a few Devs. I don’t like it when people who have no experience with what I do call me incompetent, and I don’t like it when I see people doing that to others, as well. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 4:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cosmos-sites-are-broken-af/332819/161 "2021-10-20T16:07:52Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > Come on then……. > > School me. As soon as I figure out whose damage control alt you are. But I have to tell you. Your mains identity is not high on my list of priorities, so it might be a while. Mr Epeen 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 4:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cosmos-sites-are-broken-af/332819/162 "2021-10-20T16:10:06Z")
You are going to be very disappointed. However it is very telling in the face of being asked to explain why I’m off base with my views in this thread all you come back with is ……. I must be an alt. I’m flattered really ---
**Author:** ![Twijn\_Sunz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/twijn_sunz/32/289865_2.png) [@Twijn\_Sunz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Twijn_Sunz)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 4:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cosmos-sites-are-broken-af/332819/163 "2021-10-20T16:11:05Z")
@Brisc_Rubal You seem to think that being on the CSM is shilling for CCP. It’s not. You’re supposed to be on the players’ side, not make excuses for how incompetent and lazy CCP is. ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 4:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cosmos-sites-are-broken-af/332819/164 "2021-10-20T16:18:46Z")
You know the CSM is just a communications conduit right? That they can’t make CCP do anything? So if a CSM asks CCP if something is likely to get done and CCP say “no”……. Then reporting that back to the player base is kinda the point? Just because the answers to these questions isn’t what the community wants to hear doesn’t mean the CSM is failing on an individual level. I mean sure let’s question the CSM as an entity and debate it’s purpose given CCP so often ignores it. But criticising individuals, especially individuals who at least try to engage with the forum is a bit you know………. Crap. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 4:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cosmos-sites-are-broken-af/332819/166 "2021-10-20T16:41:01Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > @Destiny_Corrupted I think that the comparative differences between whats been allowed to stay in Mike’s thread and whats been flagged and hidden here does lend a certain weight to your theory, though I never rule incompetence as malice until I have solid proof. Ouchies. Keep me out of this shitshow please. If I poke _this_ hornet’s nest, I’m either going to get permanently banned from the game or murdered in real life, or possibly even both. I’m just here to crash the funny high-sec ganking/crying crab threads and to post silly pictures of anime girls, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 4:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cosmos-sites-are-broken-af/332819/167 "2021-10-20T16:51:22Z")
> [@Twijn\_Sunz](#): > > It’s just Brisc… I hate that guy. This is probably the saddest thing I’ve read in a long time. I don’t know you. The first interaction I had with you is you saying I was somehow jealous of Mike Azariah and that I talk down to people. If that is enough for you to hate somebody, I think you need to take a break and try to figure out why you’re so unhappy. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cosmos-sites-are-broken-af/332819.md?page=7) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cosmos-sites-are-broken-af/332819.md?page=9)