# Create an \*ACTUAL\* Downside to Player Piracy **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Created:** [January 24, 2023, 8:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990 "2023-01-24T08:15:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 5:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/183 "2023-02-13T17:58:12Z")
> [@Io\_Koval](#): > > How many catalyst fleets have you seen be Outlaw status, and then later see be above -5? Those will be the answer to your question, skipping all assumptions in between. > > I’ve seen zero. Taking Safety., Novis Ordo. and (lesser so now) CODE. as the most common gank fleet alliances, this is the current status of their gankers by gank participation: ![sec_status](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/f/7/6/f769494025e144556f75aef006fc869c6628d543.png) Overwhelmingly, they are not using tags and the vast majority of their members that are involved in ganks are outlaw. Certainly, for gank fleets, at least involving these groups, killrights are irrelevant to being able to engage them. ---
**Author:** ![0ptimus\_Swine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/0ptimus_swine/32/385816_2.png) [@0ptimus\_Swine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/0ptimus_Swine)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 5:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/184 "2023-02-13T17:58:36Z")
Would the system being faster be bad? in and of itself? Unless the answer is yes, I think asking for it to be quicker stands on it’s own. ---
**Author:** ![0ptimus\_Swine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/0ptimus_swine/32/385816_2.png) [@0ptimus\_Swine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/0ptimus_Swine)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 6:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/185 "2023-02-13T18:00:05Z")
Now show us non-catalysts only. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 6:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/186 "2023-02-13T18:00:54Z")
Ah, OK. Sure, make killrights quicker! Like you said, I don’t think it needs any particular gameplay reason to ask CCP for lower latency / higher performance of their own game. It seems the whole exploration above about ganking gameplay, anti-ganking, tags, tag markets was indeed rather pointless. I think “ask CCP to not have a slow game” is something most players can get behind. Thanks for letting me pick your brain. (Edit: I am still not convinced of the link between killright-speed and anti-ganking gameplay) ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 6:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/187 "2023-02-13T18:01:38Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > Certainly, for gank fleets, at least involving these groups, killrights are irrelevant to being able to engage them. You ■■■■■■■ monster, digester of data, bringer of numbers. Think of the children! ---
**Author:** ![0ptimus\_Swine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/0ptimus_swine/32/385816_2.png) [@0ptimus\_Swine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/0ptimus_Swine)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 6:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/188 "2023-02-13T18:02:27Z")
Anyone know if it’s possible to PM people on the forums? No I don’t mean in-game. ---
**Author:** ![Your\_Awesum\_Brutha](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/your_awesum_brutha/32/387010_2.png) [@Your\_Awesum\_Brutha](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Your_Awesum_Brutha)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 6:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/189 "2023-02-13T18:02:47Z")
Lol, Optimus is still yapping. Do something instead of talking all day long. You got no credibility at all. Get out there and get some skill. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 6:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/190 "2023-02-13T18:04:13Z")
> [@0ptimus\_Swine](#): > > Now show us non-catalysts only. What? That isn’t really clear what exactly you are interested in, since Safety. and Novus Ordo. for example often use ships other than Catalysts. So it won’t show anything much different. If you are interested in some other specific question, then go look at it yourself. ---
**Author:** ![0ptimus\_Swine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/0ptimus_swine/32/385816_2.png) [@0ptimus\_Swine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/0ptimus_Swine)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 6:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/191 "2023-02-13T18:14:24Z")
Yes, it was. > [@Io\_Koval](#): > > the whole exploration above about ganking gameplay Relevant because killrights will mostly come from gankers. > [@Io\_Koval](#): > > tags, tag markets Bit of a throwaway comment by me, but relevant because part of that market is for gankers, so they don’t get faction policed while sat at their gank site. > [@Io\_Koval](#): > > ask CCP to not have a slow game This particular mechanic is slow because it relies on the database portion of the game. To know if you have killrights against each other it is singular back end database information so must be retrieved from there. i.e it must be true across all nodes, rather than much faster data that is on the specific node you are currently connected to. I know why it takes longer, it just annoys me. > [@Io\_Koval](#): > > (Edit: I am still not convinced of the link between killright-speed and anti-ganking gameplay) If I can figure out how to PM I can show you. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 6:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/192 "2023-02-13T18:21:59Z")
> [@0ptimus\_Swine](#): > > To know if you have killrights against each other it is singular back end database information so must be retrieved from there I don’t know how you would know this and how you would know it’s a database call versus data that is copied to a cache when a character loads in and is then passed from cache to cache when a character changes nodes or systems. We don’t really have much knowledge in the public domain on how the game code runs at that level, so how do you know they are making database calls to check on killright availability for others? ---
**Author:** ![0ptimus\_Swine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/0ptimus_swine/32/385816_2.png) [@0ptimus\_Swine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/0ptimus_Swine)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 6:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/193 "2023-02-13T18:28:14Z")
How else is it possible for someone to make a killright available to me from another node? Or remove that permission from another node? I am speculating, but I doubt very much I’m wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 7:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/194 "2023-02-13T19:02:03Z")
And what exactly would be your solution to “speed it up”? Just engaging someone and an available killright activates automatically? You realize that can be abused easily by activating expensive killrights with an throwaway alt that has no money and then biomass him when he is -100.000.000 ISK? Or creating a new way of scams, by hiding a 1-billion-killright Tornado in a group of 1-million-killright Tornados and hope for some gang just paying a billion ISK to a ganker’s alt? I am all with you that unnessessary delays should be removed, but I also don’t like more automatisms, they are usually abused. If you ask for multiple killright-activation-dialoge-windows possbile at the same time so you can just pre-open them all and just clickclickclickclick to accept them all, fine for me. ---
**Author:** ![0ptimus\_Swine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/0ptimus_swine/32/385816_2.png) [@0ptimus\_Swine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/0ptimus_Swine)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 7:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/195 "2023-02-13T19:22:57Z")
“Just engaging” I didn’t quite say that, I said, “just engage them AND the check is done automatically,” If i have a KR, the isk is deducted and i fire, If I don’t have a KR then my guns don’t fire. (Assuming green safety etc.) This has removed the delay of me having to select the right target in the selected item box, move my mouse to the selected item box, click the KR icon, then click the activate button. You can check kill right prices fairly quickly by scrolling the overview with the down arrow. Bit of risk never hurt anyone. Besides, billion isk killrights are already a thing. I don’t like the window idea, pop ups are annoying. I’m totally ok with it being a hotkey though, because i can queue all my targeting then just have the activate KR hotkey under my thumb while my finger presses F1. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 7:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/196 "2023-02-13T19:35:24Z")
> [@0ptimus\_Swine](#): > > I said, “just engage them AND the check is done automatically,” If i have a KR, the isk is deducted and i fire Whats the difference to what I have said? > [@Syzygium](#): > > Just engaging someone and an available killright activates automatically? ? You can’t “have a KR” unless you have paid for it first. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2023, 6:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/197 "2023-02-14T06:08:54Z")
> [@0ptimus\_Swine](#): > > How else is it possible for someone to make a killright available to me from another node? Or remove that permission from another node? In the past, there used to be a bug where changes occurred (eg. changing Corp) that didn’t involve a session change on the server, those changes didn’t appear in system. It used to be a trick used by wardeccers to approach potential targets and then switch into the wardec group at the last moment, and the target wouldn’t see it. because they didn’t have a session change. CCP fixed that, so there is regular refresh of data, but that doesn’t mean it comes from the database. It’s far faster and more efficient to use a cache (and multiple caches) and only transact with the database in batches and/or less frequently. Which then comes back to my question, which hasn’t been answered: > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > how do you know they are making database calls to check on killright availability for others? ---
**Author:** ![0ptimus\_Swine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/0ptimus_swine/32/385816_2.png) [@0ptimus\_Swine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/0ptimus_Swine)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2023, 2:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/198 "2023-02-14T14:49:37Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > which hasn’t been answered: I answered your question. But it was in an edit to the post so you may have missed it. ---
**Author:** ![Nujenif\_Talvanen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nujenif_talvanen/32/433113_2.png) [@Nujenif\_Talvanen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nujenif_Talvanen)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2023, 4:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/199 "2023-02-19T04:49:05Z")
> [@Io\_Koval](#): > > Just what this forum needs, more alts of alleged PVP mains. Aww ☹ My main is Flara Pediati. This guy was supposed to be my main but I found that I liked the projectiles more (and had better fitting skills and connections) after a while. Now I have T2 rockets, hybrids, drones, and projectiles as an alpha clone. I am very happy, and can’t wait for my Omega step into scary faction frigates. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2023, 10:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/200 "2023-03-07T10:31:13Z")
> [@0ptimus\_Swine](#): > > I didn’t quite say that, I said, “just engage them AND the check is done automatically,” If i have a KR, the isk is deducted and i fire, If I don’t have a KR then my guns don’t fire. (Assuming green safety etc.) I think this isn’t a bad idea. Similar to how for example ansiblex jump gate jumping is really smooth, attacking a legal enemy with available kill right could be equally smooth. Ansiblex jump gates have a fee, but players can set a maximum amount to _automatically pay_. If you give the jump command and the fee is lower than that, you simply jump and pay. If it’s higher, you don’t jump and get a confirmation window instead. A similar system could work for kill rights, where the player simply sets a maximum fee that they wish to automatically pay when attacking, allowing them to instantly engage someone with a cheap active kill right without clicking through confirmation windows, while getting a confirmation window for exorbitant kill right prices. I don’t fly in parts of space where kill rights are necessary, but I do think this would make the use of kill rights smoother. ---
**Author:** ![Nujenif\_Talvanen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nujenif_talvanen/32/433113_2.png) [@Nujenif\_Talvanen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nujenif_Talvanen)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2023, 2:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/201 "2023-03-08T02:02:20Z")
I like it. Autmatically disabled setting, could be manually enabled. Great idea. ---
**Author:** ![Your\_Awesum\_Brutha](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/your_awesum_brutha/32/387010_2.png) [@Your\_Awesum\_Brutha](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Your_Awesum_Brutha)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2023, 4:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/202 "2023-03-14T16:35:36Z")
> [@0ptimus\_Swine](#): > > I didn’t quite say that, I said, “just engage them AND the check is done automatically,” If i have a KR, the isk is deducted and i fire, If I don’t have a KR then my guns don’t fire. (Assuming green safety etc.) If this is implemented, I will abuse this mechanic by getting myself a 1 bil KR on me with an alt, undocking while having 5 seconds of sus timer on the KR toon left and when the timer is out, I will move. Since every camper just smashes f1 on easy prey, the first guy to do that will pay me a bil. GG, you just made KR scams that much easier. You are not as smart as you think you are. If it were a good idea, it would be part of the game. Also, all of this is still irrelevant because you still haven’t explained why you need kill rights to kill -10 toons in HS. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990.md?page=9) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990.md?page=11)