# Create an \*ACTUAL\* Downside to Player Piracy **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Created:** [January 24, 2023, 8:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990 "2023-01-24T08:15:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Mishi\_Raholan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mishi_raholan/32/358510_2.png) [@Mishi\_Raholan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mishi_Raholan)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2023, 8:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/203 "2023-03-14T20:14:26Z")
My opinion is that PvE and PvP should be separate. People who complain about high-sec PvP being boring… Can’t you go PvP in low-sec or null-sec ? For my part it made me quit the game 6 month ago when i was suicide ganked in high-sec out my 3rd abyss run, learning the game. As a beginner solo player, grinding is already painfully slow with losing 10h worth of mission isk by PvE death happening because mission difficulty has too much variance and suddenly present you with a deathtrap while 2 mission ago of the same level, it was a cake walk. So the point: Some place should be PvP free and PvE only, and PvP should be abundant in PvP zone. You feel like starved. Ps: I think maybe if we could recover the wreck of our ship for repair ? I would lose 1 or 2 hour of travel for being ganked + the loot which is maybe 1 hour of activity, not 15 or 20h to farm again my ship value. For beginner the loss of a ship is too step when converted in hours of farm. maybe you are so rich that your ships cost you no game time at all. remember: average player free-time 2 hour per day. ---
**Author:** ![Nujenif\_Talvanen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nujenif_talvanen/32/433113_2.png) [@Nujenif\_Talvanen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nujenif_Talvanen)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 12:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/204 "2023-03-15T00:22:11Z")
> [@Your\_Awesum\_Brutha](#): > > sus \*GASP @Mishi_Raholan This may sound like a good idea on paper, but it is actually very contrary to the game’s core foundation. Highsec PVP is boring because it is rarely used for pure fun. It is used for profit. It is certainly not as boring, easy, or even risky as some PvE activities. If you were on your third abyss run in a ship that you needed to grind 10 hours to pay off, you were starting out too expensive. You should have been in T0s with a T1 fitted ship, most likely a kitey destroyer (like the Algos or Talwar). These ships should never exceed 10 mil in fitting cost until loaded up with loot. In two hours (which is usually way more than I get), I can get around 100 million ISK if I’m trying, without too much trouble. I am an alpha clone, live in Lowsec, and die a lot. Get ships that are affordable. ---
**Author:** ![Lodemai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lodemai/32/374211_2.png) [@Lodemai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lodemai)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2023, 1:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/205 "2023-03-17T13:17:52Z")
> [@Nujenif\_Talvanen](#): > > In two hours (which is usually way more than I get), I can get around 100 million ISK if I’m trying, without too much trouble. I am an alpha clone, live in Lowsec, and die a lot. You are answering to someone talking about hisec, you should take into consideration hisec income, and not necessarily doing the best isk/hour activity ---
**Author:** ![Qia\_Kare](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/qia_kare/32/279281_2.png) [@Qia\_Kare](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Qia_Kare)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2023, 6:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/206 "2023-03-17T18:20:15Z")
His advice is sound in any environment. If someone is flying a ship that they can not easily replace, they’re flying a ship that’s worth too much and should downgrade to something they can afford to lose. There was someone who liked to say ‘if you can’t afford 5 of them, then you can’t afford 1 of them’ and this is a good rule of thumb. A player should consider a ship _might_ be too pricy to fly if they can’t also afford to purchase and properly fit 4 more of them. People vary in how much risk and punishment they can handle so adjust the number up or down for personal taste, but players shouldn’t fly ships that will be painful to lose because of their expense. They should only fly ships they can afford to lose, and, since corvettes are free, everyone has access to an affordable ship. ---
**Author:** ![0ptimus\_Swine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/0ptimus_swine/32/385816_2.png) [@0ptimus\_Swine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/0ptimus_Swine)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2023, 7:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/207 "2023-03-19T19:33:36Z")
> [@Your\_Awesum\_Brutha](#): > > the first guy to do that will pay me a bil. Easily fixed, allow the user to set an auto-pay cap. > [@Your\_Awesum\_Brutha](#): > > you still haven’t explained why you need kill rights to kill -10 toons in HS. Link the post where I said that and I’ll answer you. Or are you yet another person who can’t argue the point I’m making so you instead fabricate an argument and attack that instead, commonly known as a “strawman.” ---
**Author:** ![Your\_Awesum\_Brutha](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/your_awesum_brutha/32/387010_2.png) [@Your\_Awesum\_Brutha](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Your_Awesum_Brutha)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 10:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/208 "2023-03-20T10:18:54Z")
> [@Arivexel](#): > > I’m primarily referring to “gank fleets” in high-sec. > [@0ptimus\_Swine](#): > > Nice ideas. Let me know if killing gankers becomes easier, if it does CCP MIGHT see some more of my money. Until then, my wallet is closed. Sorry CCP, I don’t expect special treatment. I do expect gankers to be penalised and to be able to shoot them easily. > [@Your\_Awesum\_Brutha](#): > > Gankers are very easy to shoot. You just need skill to do it. If you can’t pull it off it is a skill issue, not an engine issue. > [@0ptimus\_Swine](#): > > You haven’t spent a lot of time working with killrights have you? > [@Your\_Awesum\_Brutha](#): > > Clearly more than you have, because if you knew anything about the criminal mechanics in HS, you would at least know that you don’t need to have a KR to dunk a -10 toon. But as one can see via your empty kb, you are just a bear that never undocks. The OP is clearly talking about -10 toons. You chime in with exactly what I have linked, start to talk about kill rights and offer no explanation why you need them. So, explain what you need kill rights against -10 toons for. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 3:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/209 "2023-03-20T15:43:41Z")
> [@Your\_Awesum\_Brutha](#): > > The OP is clearly talking about -10 toons. You chime in with exactly what I have linked, start to talk about kill rights and offer no explanation why you need them. So, explain what you need kill rights against -10 toons for. While kill rights are useless against -10 characters, a system that automatically activates kill rights (_up to a player-defined price cap)_ would make the use of kill rights _in situations where kill rights are useful_ smoother. Do you agree or disagree that there are situations where kill rights are useful? ---
**Author:** ![0ptimus\_Swine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/0ptimus_swine/32/385816_2.png) [@0ptimus\_Swine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/0ptimus_Swine)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 6:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/211 "2023-03-20T18:09:16Z")
So, I didn’t mention -10s? Total straw man. Do it again, it’s amusing me. > [@Your\_Awesum\_Brutha](#): > > start to talk about kill rights and offer no explanation why you need them. \ > [@Your\_Awesum\_Brutha](#): > > So, explain what you need kill rights against -10 toons for. “So” implies the sentences are related, dependent, but they’re not. Each point could be made on their own because they’re non-sequitur. The two points you made are different, you assume people will not notice these two points you made are different. Lets see how you deal with some simple questions:- 1. How do people get killrights against them? 2. Could a killright be used in ANY WAY WHATSOEVER to kill someone who has ganked someone else? Try not to straw man me again, you keep tripping over that easily avoidable obstacle… ---
**Author:** ![Nujenif\_Talvanen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nujenif_talvanen/32/433113_2.png) [@Nujenif\_Talvanen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nujenif_Talvanen)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2023, 12:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/212 "2023-03-21T00:14:40Z")
> [@0ptimus\_Swine](#): > > sequitur THAT’S HOW YOU SPELL IT??? Gosh I’ve only ever heard that word before. Neat! Also it seems you two are just asking each other questions and then “answering” them by accusing each other of things. > [@0ptimus\_Swine](#): > > > [@Your\_Awesum\_Brutha](#): > > > > So, explain what you need kill rights against -10 toons for. Kill rights are absolutely useless against characters with a sec status less than -5, because of the “permaflashy” mechanic. Activating one does give them suspect status, but it does not change their engageability. > [@0ptimus\_Swine](#): > > How do people get killrights against them? If someone attacks (not necessarily kills) someone else illegally in Highsec or Lowsec, the victim gets a killright. At any time they can activate the killright and turn them “suspect” for 15 minutes. If the victim is nearby (or has already prelocked them) they can then attack the now-suspect freely. Alternatively, you can release the killmark for anyone to activate. You can set a price for engagement as well, so you can at least get a little bit of ISK in exchange for someone else using your right to vengeance. > [@0ptimus\_Swine](#): > > Could a killright be used in ANY WAY WHATSOEVER to kill someone who has ganked someone else? Yes, it absolutely can, but in practice it is quite unlikely. -10 chars are not affected, and chars who are still above -5 will usually stay docked until they are ready to gank another target. You could theoretically catch them in transit or once they land, but your odds aren’t great and your window of opportunity is very small. > [@Your\_Awesum\_Brutha](#): > > OP is clearly talking about -10 toons I didn’t think it was that clear… Overall, the new patch has indroduced a lot of barriers for gankers. We should see how it plays out for quite a long time before trying to restrict it even more. It is, after all, still an integral part of the game, and the vocal minority are just that, a minority. ---
**Author:** ![Your\_Awesum\_Brutha](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/your_awesum_brutha/32/387010_2.png) [@Your\_Awesum\_Brutha](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Your_Awesum_Brutha)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2023, 12:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/213 "2023-03-21T00:23:38Z")
Lol, you’ve done goofed ---
**Author:** ![Your\_Awesum\_Brutha](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/your_awesum_brutha/32/387010_2.png) [@Your\_Awesum\_Brutha](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Your_Awesum_Brutha)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2023, 12:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/214 "2023-03-21T00:30:23Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Do you agree or disagree that there are situations where kill rights are useful? Let’s assume for a second this thread were not about -10 gankers but about people who use nados to blap haulers. Considering this, there are effectively never going to be any “fleets” out, but let’s assume for a moment there are two tornados undocked. With this in mind, we assume that we want to activate KRs against them. In this situation, you still only want to activate one KR at once, because Tornado gankers always either sit on gates or on NPC stations. Both on a gate and on a NPC station you can only insta them, as holding them will allow them to just dock or jump gate. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2023, 7:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/215 "2023-03-21T07:02:12Z")
> [@Your\_Awesum\_Brutha](#): > > With this in mind, we assume that we want to activate KRs against them. In this situation, you still only want to activate one KR at once, because Tornado gankers always either sit on gates or on NPC stations. I agree, activating the kill rights one or two at a time makes more sense than activating more than you can hold down and kill. Still, I like the idea to automatically pay for kill rights (up to a player-defined price) so all you have to do to engage that tornado is to tackle him and start shooting. ---
**Author:** ![0ptimus\_Swine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/0ptimus_swine/32/385816_2.png) [@0ptimus\_Swine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/0ptimus_Swine)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2023, 6:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/216 "2023-03-21T18:04:18Z")
I thought it was about player piracy. I gathered this elusive conclusion from the extremely cryptic title, that says “player piracy.” > [@Your\_Awesum\_Brutha](#): > > In this situation, you still only want to activate one KR at once, because Tornado gankers always either sit on gates or on NPC stations. Both on a gate and on a NPC station you can only insta them, as holding them will allow them to just dock or jump gate. At minimum I want two, if they’re spread out, I can bump one and tackle the other. Shoot the one I tackled because he could still hit gate or station, then once he’s dead, tackle the other dude before his inertia allows him to run. If they’re not spread out, I can bump several. ---
**Author:** ![Your\_Awesum\_Brutha](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/your_awesum_brutha/32/387010_2.png) [@Your\_Awesum\_Brutha](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Your_Awesum_Brutha)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2023, 10:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/217 "2023-03-22T22:37:22Z")
That sounds hard to achieve, please tell me which ship you will use to both bump a Tornado so far away from that gate that he cannot burn back and jump within a few seconds, while also volleying a tornado and tackling it. You need both high alpha damage while still having considerable speed and mass. I’d love to see the fit you want to use for this. ---
**Author:** ![Nujenif\_Talvanen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nujenif_talvanen/32/433113_2.png) [@Nujenif\_Talvanen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nujenif_Talvanen)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2023, 5:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/218 "2023-03-23T05:42:46Z")
I know of someone who uses a Cyclone Fleet. They bump them like 100km 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![0ptimus\_Swine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/0ptimus_swine/32/385816_2.png) [@0ptimus\_Swine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/0ptimus_Swine)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2023, 6:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/219 "2023-03-23T18:25:43Z")
Keep wishing. Just because YOU can’t do something doesn’t make it impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Your\_Awesum\_Brutha](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/your_awesum_brutha/32/387010_2.png) [@Your\_Awesum\_Brutha](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Your_Awesum_Brutha)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2023, 10:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/220 "2023-03-23T22:13:40Z")
So you admit that you are just making stuff up? Good, I guess we are done here. ---
**Author:** ![0ptimus\_Swine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/0ptimus_swine/32/385816_2.png) [@0ptimus\_Swine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/0ptimus_Swine)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 1:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/221 "2023-03-25T01:35:47Z")
Straw Man ---
**Author:** ![Nujenif\_Talvanen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nujenif_talvanen/32/433113_2.png) [@Nujenif\_Talvanen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nujenif_Talvanen)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2023, 6:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/222 "2023-03-26T06:59:40Z")
Bro you didn’t even respond to me you need to calm yourself. Friendly Targets made a video of the CyFI. ---
**Author:** ![Your\_Awesum\_Brutha](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/your_awesum_brutha/32/387010_2.png) [@Your\_Awesum\_Brutha](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Your_Awesum_Brutha)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2023, 12:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/223 "2023-03-27T00:43:26Z")
Link it then [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990.md?page=10) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990.md?page=12)