# Create an \*ACTUAL\* Downside to Player Piracy **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Created:** [January 24, 2023, 8:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990 "2023-01-24T08:15:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![QuakeGod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quakegod/32/480339_2.png) [@QuakeGod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/QuakeGod)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2023, 10:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/21 "2023-01-24T22:07:15Z")
Instead of whining about it, do something about it. Be proactive and pay attention. It’s not that hard. Whining about your AFK barge or Orca getting popped is like someone whining that their vehicle they left running in the parking lot got stolen… ---
**Author:** ![Qia\_Kare](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/qia_kare/32/279281_2.png) [@Qia\_Kare](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Qia_Kare)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2023, 11:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/23 "2023-01-24T23:48:41Z")
While I am not much fond of his suggested changes or the direction he wants to go with them, he did not have a meltdown at my mildly snarky post, fact checked himself and admitted to error, and lost a ship to CONCORD trying to do something himself about the percieved problem. I don’t want to be mean to him, just educate him. Especially if he’s not too cheap, self centered, or busy to undock and do something to address his concerns directly. My opinion is that if he were actually an idiot, he’d have argued with me more. Since he did not, I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt and classify him as a reasonable person who disagrees with my position on this topic. ---
**Author:** ![Vokan\_Narkar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vokan_narkar/32/326293_2.png) [@Vokan\_Narkar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vokan_Narkar)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2023, 12:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/24 "2023-01-25T00:35:23Z")
Fair enough. Funny thing is that the reason the gankers that ganked him weren’t “open season” as he calls it, is the recent nerf to ganking and loss of tether. Which caused about half the gankers to gank with positive security status instead of with -10 outlaws. And this nerf was made in the spite of the same argument “to have security status an actual meaning” 🤣 So it has and now most gankers aren’t free to shoot until they open fire. Effectively it changes nothing really, he would lose his Rattlesnake no matter if they were positive status or outlaws. ---
**Author:** ![Buggs\_LeRoach](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/buggs_leroach/32/376676_2.png) [@Buggs\_LeRoach](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Buggs_LeRoach)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2023, 2:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/25 "2023-01-25T02:18:37Z")
agreed , though it has raised the cost of staying above -5 , and perhaps made gankers a bit more selective . i was impressed the op was able to respond fast enough to kill the primary tackle , even as his 4.5 bill rattle was being burned down , complete with ORE cargo expander … just need a good mentor to teach him , and maybe advice to tone down the bling a bit , he’ll be ok . ---
**Author:** ![QuakeGod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quakegod/32/480339_2.png) [@QuakeGod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/QuakeGod)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2023, 2:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/26 "2023-01-25T02:29:10Z")
lol, an ORE cargo expander on a Rattlesnake. WTF… ---
**Author:** ![Inaishite\_Teikei](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/inaishite_teikei/32/383275_2.png) [@Inaishite\_Teikei](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Inaishite_Teikei)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2023, 3:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/27 "2023-01-25T03:07:47Z")
> [@Arivexel](#): > > If you are not in the same corp/fleet and loot the wreck of a ship that was fired UPON, you should have similar sanctions against you until some time has elapsed. But… that’s already what happens. You get a suspect timer. You keep complaining about lack of consequences and proposing revolutionary changes which are already in the game. I am genuinely puzzled here. ---
**Author:** ![Dyver\_Phycad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dyver_phycad/32/358575_2.png) [@Dyver\_Phycad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dyver_Phycad)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2023, 6:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/28 "2023-01-25T06:03:29Z")
If you undock as a pirate, you can’t dock again in a ship. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2023, 6:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/29 "2023-01-25T06:22:21Z")
This is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Dyver\_Phycad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dyver_phycad/32/358575_2.png) [@Dyver\_Phycad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dyver_Phycad)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2023, 8:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/30 "2023-01-25T08:09:47Z")
> In addition to being attacked by Empire faction police (and unable to cloak or tether) players with security status -5.0 and below (outlaws) will no longer be allowed to dock in any structure or station in high security space while piloting a ship. > **[Changes to Security Status & Abyssal Filaments | EVE Online](https://www.eveonline.com/news/view/changes-to-security-status-and-abyssal-filaments)** > > New changes to outlaw behavior in high security space & activation of Abyssal filaments ---
**Author:** ![Clone\_Nr007](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/clone_nr007/32/350156_2.png) [@Clone\_Nr007](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Clone_Nr007)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2023, 11:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/31 "2023-01-25T11:10:25Z")
> [@QuakeGod](#): > > lol, an ORE cargo expander on a Rattlesnake. WTF… Well, mining ships are useless so maybe he figured he gets a little mining while being ready for PvP as well? I know it’s not the way but for a solo player that might be something to try. ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2023, 11:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/32 "2023-01-25T11:33:52Z")
> [@Arivexel](#): > > It doesn’t require any real skill and there is no way to return the hardship. I would propose you try the suicide ganking for profit play style a while and then judge again. Also all suicide gankers and loot thieves are free game to everybody, so let’s do something about it yourself, right? During burn Jita events I remember sitting in an Arty-Thrasher at the station undock and was sniping Catalysts based on kill rights. And I was quite good at stopping lazy loot thieves with an HIC, when hauler ganking was still a major thing. … but highsec became boring with all the PvP nerfs over the years. … IMO it needs again more grey zones (suspect flag) than pure black and white being a ganker, or being ganked kind of PvP or bashing structures for the wardeccers. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2023, 12:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/33 "2023-01-25T12:49:16Z")
> [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > In addition to being attacked by Empire faction police (and unable to cloak or tether) players with security status -5.0 and below (outlaws) will no longer be allowed to dock in any structure or station in high security space while piloting a ship. That doesn’t make them “stuck”. Players roaming in 0.0 or WH space are unable to dock in the systems they look for targets all the time. One solution is called “travel to an area where you can dock”, which usually is not even a handful of jumps in HighSec. Most 0.5 or 0.6 systems have a LowSec very close by. Store the ship there, give it to your corp and pod yourself back to ganking HQ. The corp logistic will bring it back with a non-outlaw char. Another solution is called “Find other targets while staying alive in space”, by warping between safespots or systems. Maybe a prepared Orca on a Safespot (Ship Hangar) or a pre-anchored small POS (Ship Maintainance Bay) does also work if you want to gank in a system that has no LowSec in acceptable range, have not tested it. That would be called “preparation”. Hey look, it’s not so different from the PVP in all other areas and not even remotely “stuck”. ---
**Author:** ![Namdor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/namdor/32/396179_2.png) [@Namdor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Namdor)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2023, 2:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/34 "2023-01-25T14:33:43Z")
> [@Arivexel](#): > > Well thank you - that lead me to double-check - I was wrong. Could this experience lead you to wonder if you might be wrong about anything else? You’ve demonstrated several times throughout the thread that you’re not very familiar with the rules of the game. Don’t you think it would be better to become familiar with the present rules before proposing that they be changed? ---
**Author:** ![Buggs\_LeRoach](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/buggs_leroach/32/376676_2.png) [@Buggs\_LeRoach](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Buggs_LeRoach)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2023, 3:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/35 "2023-01-25T15:53:07Z")
he may have meant stuck with inconvenient , or time-consuming choices , many of which you noted . using null-sec analogies doesn’t apply well , as there’s no npc police chasing you . ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2023, 4:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/36 "2023-01-25T16:24:01Z")
> [@Buggs\_LeRoach](#): > > he may have meant stuck with inconvenient , or time-consuming choices , many of which you noted . Whats the problem? Missionrunners and Miners are told all the time to fit tank (limiting their profits), to pay attention all the time (which is pretty inconvenient) and to use remote systems for doing their stuff, away from the trade hubs (which is time consuming to travel). And rightly so, nobody is entitled to do his business with maximum convenience and without making - sometimes costly - choices. Applies to gankers as well. Or are you _really_ saying that this little inconvenience of maybe 3 jumps and one pod express is already too much for the apex predators of EVE? > [@Buggs\_LeRoach](#): > > using null-sec analogies doesn’t apply well , as there’s no npc police chasing you . You are absolutely right, in Nullsec you may not have a station to dock within 30 jumps and in WH space you can’t even see who or how many are chasing you or waiting for you at the next jump. And there are much nastier things around trying to catch you, dictors, ceptors, dragbubbles, smartbombs and whatnot. Its way more inconvenient to bring a ship to safety there than it is to bring one from highsec to the next lowsec station. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2023, 4:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/37 "2023-01-25T16:28:04Z")
> [@Arivexel](#): > > I’d like to propose that the game no longer inequitably favor player piracy This made me laugh. The game hasn’t favored player piracy since the Crimewatch changes that made all the actual high sec PVP & associated piracy evaporate overnight – ganking and MTU suspect baiting being the sole exceptions. CCP hasn’t used the word “pirate” nor “piracy” in any marketing material in any recent shape or form. The best they can do is “Soldier of Fortune” which doesn’t even make sense as they “temporarily” removed the player bounty system for 2 years (and counting). ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2023, 5:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/38 "2023-01-25T17:08:18Z")
> [@Io\_Koval](#): > > “Soldier of Fortune” This refers to NPC bounties … ---
**Author:** ![QuakeGod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quakegod/32/480339_2.png) [@QuakeGod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/QuakeGod)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2023, 5:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/39 "2023-01-25T17:28:58Z")
We need a ganking and PVP career agent tutorial called “Soldier of Misfortune”… ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2023, 5:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/40 "2023-01-25T17:31:16Z")
> [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > This refers to NPC bounties … …which is exactly why it doesn’t make sense to even consider that entry as “CCP marketing player piracy”, and goes on to support my overall point in that post: that CCP doesn’t even try to show newbies & would-be-players-via-advertisements that the “player pirate” life is even an option. ---
**Author:** ![Dyver\_Phycad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dyver_phycad/32/358575_2.png) [@Dyver\_Phycad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dyver_Phycad)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2023, 5:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990/41 "2023-01-25T17:31:45Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > That doesn’t make them “stuck”. Players roaming in 0.0 or WH space are unable to dock in the systems they look for targets all the time. You are not paying attention here. Normal pvpers are not stuck. Gankers, on the other hand, are not normal PVPers. Gankers are stuck outside station. What you describe then are solutions to work around that stuck state. It’s the tiny inconvenience that gankers did not have in the past and which makes them cry the most delicious crocodile tears. All of these things you list are desireable drawbacks to an action and very much in line with what the gankers expect from their targets in terms of preparation to avoid them. But it doesn’t change the fact that, once they are undocked in their ships, they are stuck outside and have to use time-consuming workarounds to get back into their safe station for more ships if they failed to secure their target properly. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/create-an-actual-downside-to-player-piracy/392990.md?page=3)