# Criminals and gank failures **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Created:** [October 31, 2021, 7:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769 "2021-10-31T07:15:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 1:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/224 "2021-11-23T13:51:03Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > There are several existing issues, why do you think that changes to EHP will just magically solve other issues that have nothing to do with mining barge and Exhumer EHP. Hi Dracvlad. The short answer is: They will not. My comments are to be taken in the context of the insistence of people who assert that the EHP of some barges/exhumers is not yet at a sufficiently high level to deter the average ganker. O, and putting a BS MWD on freighters, or something. I clearly wrote: > [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > if their repeated calls for buffs _and other changes_ were to be heeded by CCP It is not I who think such changes are a magic bullet for all the game’s ills; it is those who insist that losing a few hit-points from their fairy carriage is the end of life-as-they-know-it. Perhaps, though, my intention was not clear; if so, I apologise; I was responding to a post not written by you. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 2:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/225 "2021-11-23T14:03:17Z")
Thanks for clarifying that. I support increasing the tank, but I would not make it such that it prevents ganking. In terms of the BS MWD on freighters which I am sure you know is one of my suggested improvements. That is not to deter ganking but to make it less of a sure thing to be caught and killed in terms of solo freighter pilots, but will better enable AG to help them in certain ways that I don’t want to mention here as it is opsec, but the objective is to make it worthwhile assisting people in a planned way as a group. ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 2:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/226 "2021-11-23T14:59:33Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > Thanks for clarifying that. I support increasing the tank, but I would not make it such that it prevents ganking but thats exactly what you are suggesting. You are saying that a mining barge should have 4 catalysts of EHP. So whats left for a ganker that likes to roam solo or with one other account? Newbie ventures? At which point they are just griefing right? Or do they just have to suck it up and excessively multibox (i accept some already do) or fleet up? That will be preventative in many cases. I mean sure most things in eve are better with others but even the mining changes while pushing us towards fleet play are not stopping us from doing it solo. I can still solo mine in my orca if i want it just wont be as much as before. But this kind of change takes away a solo option completely. All because watching local and mining somewhere sensible is HARD. Come on man. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 3:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/227 "2021-11-23T15:04:15Z")
Fleet up with other players. If you are choosing to do combat that is restricted then you have to understand that it is going to be more difficult. ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 3:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/228 "2021-11-23T15:08:38Z")
Perfectly true. Just the same as Mine somewhere safe. If you are choosing to mine in a busy area near a trade hub you have to understand that you are at risk of being ganked. yet……….you want an EHP buff instead. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 3:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/229 "2021-11-23T15:14:42Z")
No, I want change in local to be worth something. While it is just one catalyst it is worth nothing, stop with the strawmen and arguing with your own points. ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 3:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/230 "2021-11-23T15:23:10Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > Mining in any system and having to notice just one catalyst entering the system is enough justification to increase EHP of mining ships. I think four is a good number to have to react too and why would 4 be the number to react to if the increase in EHP didnt allow you be able to tank 4? Im simple interogating the detail of what you are saying. but yes ……….. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > Fleet up with other players. If you are choosing to do combat that is restricted then you have to understand that it is going to be more difficult > [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > Mine somewhere safe. If you are choosing to mine in a busy area near a trade hub you have to understand that you are at risk of being ganked. im really interested why your statement here is fine. but mine isnt. Or more specifcally…….. Why is not reasonable to expect a miner to be able to watch local and react? Why is not reasonable to expect a miner to mine in quiet systems to minimise risk? Why is it reasonable to say that local is too difficult to watch and miners shouls get an across the board EHP buff? I love it when you give me the strawman chat. Its almost better than porn. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 3:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/231 "2021-11-23T15:53:04Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > I love it when you give me the strawman chat. Its almost better than porn. I love it that a ganker shrill tries too hard. And ignores what I wrote and asks the same questions. All your points are deflections on the issue that was raised by several other players in that other thread. ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 4:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/232 "2021-11-23T16:02:40Z")
questions which you are avoiding. for obvious reasons. But just as a refresher this conversation started when i quoted this……… > [@Dracvlad](#): > > makes reacting to them by movement in local impossible. by stating that it was IMPOSSIBLE for miners to react to changes in local. It is quite obviously not impossible. It has nothing to do with what other people have said. It has specifically to do with the absurd and incorrect statement quoted above. If it is indeed IMPOSSIBLE why have I and other miners been doing it successfully day after day after day after day. it may be difficult in busy systems. in which case i made some suggestions. > [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > Well that depends on where you are mining. If players insist on mining in busy systems 3 or 4 jumps out from trade hubs then addtional risk comes with that. > > If however the spread their wings a bit its perfectly possible to mine in systems where locla can be monitored at which point you went on your merry hop skip and jump round and round and round. and you still cant provide an answer to > [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > Why is not reasonable to expect a miner to be able to watch local and react? > > Why is not reasonable to expect a miner to mine in quiet systems to minimise risk? because any sensible answer to these questions exposes you as what you are accusing me of being. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 4:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/233 "2021-11-23T16:08:15Z")
I have already explained it, you just went off on tangents. I have already told you to accept that I have a different opinion to you. And nothing you have detailed makes any difference to this: > [@Dracvlad](#): > > For one person entering system…, let me repeat it, for one person entering system. Nothing more to say, just agree to disagree, OK. Neither do I want to go down the rabbit hole of the prefect end of pipe system as if that applies everywhere. I said what they issue is, just accept that I have a different opinion to you and that your arguments are just side tangents in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 4:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/234 "2021-11-23T16:15:35Z")
ok. one person enters system Why is it IMPOSSIBLE for a miner to react? ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 4:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/235 "2021-11-23T16:50:08Z")
A competent miner would be aware of gankers before they even enter system. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 6:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/236 "2021-11-23T18:27:18Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > ok. one person enters system > > Why is it IMPOSSIBLE for a miner to react? Good luck Etch. That person is a complete waste of space in the forum these days and not worth even reading, let alone interacting with. I admire your patience, but the goalposts will be continually shifted on you. ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 6:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/237 "2021-11-23T18:38:30Z")
![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/f/3/5/f351fea4fbfbb5e135e4f59a717fa41be76c4ac5.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 6:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/238 "2021-11-23T18:46:49Z")
I think that Highsec gankers are the new player’s first introduction to the magical realm of EVE Online. The bright flashy red pods, self-destructing amidst a sea of corpses, and the wonderful message of love and peace which these brave capsuleers spread across the stars - for a new player this is the defining moment. Well they get salty and start crying, or decide to leave Highsec and never return? Either way, EVE becomes a better place. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 6:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/239 "2021-11-23T18:52:08Z")
I don’t see any moving of goal posts on my part, you must be suffering from tunnel vision again. I think you are still butt hurt over being wrong about bookmark hunting. It is a simple thing, there are lots of people moving around between systems and if you spend your time reacting to each and every one that comes in system you will end up doing no mining, which makes it pretty damn impossible for most players. If I take the approach I have in low sec which is get safe or move and cloak when anyone appears in local, I can do that because most of the time there is no one at all moving through and it does not break up mining too much. But even in the most poorly populated parts of hisec there is still a significant throughput that would make this impossible. Anyway I am not arguing this point with either of you two, you have your opinion and I have mine. All what really matters is what CCP does. PS Aiko I have you blocked, so don’t bother, I am not going to read it. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 6:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/240 "2021-11-23T18:54:27Z")
Dracvlad, literally everyone who talks to you has reached the same conclusion - so it’s fair to say that this is a consensus. ---
**Author:** ![Same\_Old\_Topics](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/same_old_topics/32/282720_2.png) [@Same\_Old\_Topics](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Same_Old_Topics)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 7:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/241 "2021-11-23T19:24:46Z")
![heres-that-attention-you-ordered](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/f/5/0/f50926f264a44761cc6f8b98b7b4da3654a7cc3f.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Same\_Old\_Topics](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/same_old_topics/32/282720_2.png) [@Same\_Old\_Topics](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Same_Old_Topics)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 7:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/242 "2021-11-23T19:29:42Z")
You have mentioned that you think gankers make eve better repeatedly, for years. Folks like dracvlad have offered their counter-opinion repeatedly, for years. This is what I’m talking about. There is apparently so little going on that the only topics getting repeatedly spammed on these boards are grrgankers/grrminers. How do you sincerely not find this boring? Why do you turn around and post on topics wondering about EvEs player base/growth and then flip over to make sure one of the dozen odd gank threads doesn’t hit that 90 day lock, and fail to get _mildly_ curious about how those things intersect? Inb4 “lul don’t care”. You’re clearly articulate and not actually a fool, you don’t have to play one for internet points. ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 7:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/243 "2021-11-23T19:31:42Z")
I’m literally sitting in a 0.8 system 11 jumps from a trade hub as I type this. I’m the only one in local. It’s the end of a pipe so no through traffic. And guess what? 6 belts. This isn’t hard. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769.md?page=11) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769.md?page=13)