# Criminals and gank failures **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Created:** [October 31, 2021, 7:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769 "2021-10-31T07:15:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 34
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 12:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/669 "2022-01-27T00:30:50Z")
> [@Githany\_Red](#): > > Lol I was around at that time and I’d just like to bring up coach subway what ever his name was and the fox guy and many many other , its all on your blog . Yep. You can bring it up. Tell me what their doing now in game hm? ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 7:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/670 "2022-01-27T07:15:24Z")
POCO wars again, excellent. Who is doing it this time? ---
**Author:** ![Githany\_Red](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/githany_red/32/378551_2.png) [@Githany\_Red](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Githany_Red)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 7:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/671 "2022-01-27T07:27:41Z")
> [@A new Poco war erupts](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/a-new-poco-war-erupts/347422): > > Massive fleet battles erupt around jita as BjornBee attempts to dislodge the massive Poco empire of omega and friends and about time too , that video was yesterdays stream , today’s battle was just as exciting. We will be planning ways to help in this fight in the coming days as I know many of you will be joining too. All info there ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 7:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/672 "2022-01-27T07:37:37Z")
Let’s see how much valor Dracvlad can steal from yet another conflict he’ll have nothing to do with, and will at most be observing on an alt, in a cloaked ship, from 10,000km away. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 7:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/673 "2022-01-27T07:56:11Z")
Thanks looking at it now, impressive fights, I hope his followers have deep pockets and a lot of replacement ships. ---
**Author:** ![Githany\_Red](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/githany_red/32/378551_2.png) [@Githany\_Red](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Githany_Red)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 8:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/674 "2022-01-27T08:16:49Z")
He’s made 100s of gantry’s so will be interesting to see what happens ---
**Author:** ![Faylee\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/faylee_freir/32/439750_2.png) [@Faylee\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Faylee_Freir)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 9:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/675 "2022-01-27T09:48:00Z")
He actually made over 2,000. Impressive that he’s spent the better part of 2021 preparing for this. ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 2:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/676 "2022-01-27T14:35:01Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Nope. Not a straw man at all. It most definitely _is_ a straw man when one has Destiny outright saying ( and you implying )…" Why don’t _you_ _and the rest of the AGs_ report those people "…and basically tarring all AG with the same brush. Nobody is responsible for anyone else’s bad behaviour just because they engage in a similar play style. ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 2:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/677 "2022-01-27T14:50:51Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > The explanation is that these people go after the low-hanging fruit. Pound-for-pound, they are unable to compete with any _actual_ combat force in the game. This is why, whenever they have some kind of “low-sec op” or show of force of some sort, they always show up in little, disposable ships, in order to eliminate as much risk to themselves as possible. This is indicative of bottom-feeder, chickenshit behavior. AGs aren’t new players, and there’s quite a few of them. They should be able to field dozens of high-end ships, and be able to challenge some of the best war/pirate groups in the game, but they still act like week-old players, and do nothing but latch onto NPC kill mails to grow their fake kill boards to try to trick others into respecting them. I have to laugh at this…as your initial sentences perfectly describe gankers. I mean, if anyone turns up in ’ little, disposable ships in order to eliminate as much risk to themselves as possible’ it is gankers. _You know full well_ why AG don’t turn up in massive ships. Unlike gankers, who can proactively attack and still make a profit because they’ve turned up in tiny expendable ships…AG have virtually zero chance of making anything but a loss in attacking those gankers. It’s pointless bringing along a 1bn ISK ship to proactively attack a bunch of 4m ISK Catalysts. As for AG catching the tail end of Concord response and getting in on the ‘kill’…well of course that is going to happen by default. It is no different to the gankers themselves getting in on the kill even though they made 0% of hits. I mean…the time I was gate camped, only two of the six campers scored any hit but all six got onto the kill. It’s no different ! ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 4:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/678 "2022-01-27T16:56:03Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > Nobody is responsible for anyone else’s bad behaviour just because they engage in a similar play style. Yeah, we are. When I noticed someone in my wardec groups start getting a bit too offensive, or making some kind of racist/sexist remark, I always told them to knock it off, even if I was just a line member and they actually had pull. “You’re crossing a line that shouldn’t be crossed.” I didn’t just sit idly by, or worse yet, supported someone acting that way just because they were “on my side.” Thankfully those situations were ultra-rare, and when they did happen, people sided with me, and anyone acting that way ended up calming down and apologizing. Unlike with carebears, _who act this way all the time,_ and then actually _support_ each other when they act this way, purely out of solidarity against the “griefers,” who they see as the greater evil than racists or sexists or other types of prejudiced individuals. Pathetic. > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > I have to laugh at this…as your initial sentences perfectly describe gankers. I mean, if anyone turns up in ’ little, disposable ships in order to eliminate as much risk to themselves as possible’ it is gankers. > > _You know full well_ why AG don’t turn up in massive ships. Unlike gankers, who can proactively attack and still make a profit because they’ve turned up in tiny expendable ships…AG have virtually zero chance of making anything but a loss in attacking those gankers. It’s pointless bringing along a 1bn ISK ship to proactively attack a bunch of 4m ISK Catalysts. No, I was specifically referencing situations like low-sec operations or non-AG operations, where participants have the option to use bigger ships and not get punished for it via game mechanics. Using small, disposable ships when those ships are guaranteed to die to an NPC kill trigger isn’t the same thing as using small, disposable ships during a low-sec roam, for example. The former is an example of rational efficiency, while the latter is an example of cowardice, if it’s repeated without exception. Also, when AGs attack gankers, they have almost 0 risk doing so, so there’s no sense in trying to minimize costs there anyway, which is in fact why they use bigger ships during AG operations. You have everything backwards. ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 5:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/679 "2022-01-27T17:09:28Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Yeah, we are. Absolute nonsense. It would violate a basic principle that people are responsible for _their own_ misdemeanours and you can’t blame person B for person A’s crimes. Tarring all members of some group with the crimes of one person is actually no different at all to precisely the sort of stereotyping you seek to complain about. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 5:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/680 "2022-01-27T17:23:40Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > you can’t blame person B for person A’s crimes You absolutely can, which is why in real life, the assassin gets less jail time than the one who hired them, and the drug lord who runs a heroin empire gets more jail time than the pusher selling dime bags on the streets. You’re living in la-la land. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 5:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/681 "2022-01-27T17:24:19Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > It would violate a basic principle that people are responsible for _their own_ misdemeanours and you can’t blame person B for person A’s crimes At the Nuremberg Trials, it was established as a principle of international law, that political figures can be held responsible for the actions of other individuals. ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 5:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/682 "2022-01-27T17:38:17Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > At the Nuremberg Trials, it was established as a principle of international law, that political figures can be held responsible for the actions of other individuals. Yes, but I’ve yet to see the police go out and arrest everyone who plays poker just because Don Corleone plays it. I don’t see the police arresting everyone holding a pork pie just because some politicians had covid parties with pork pies during lockdown. _That_ is the level of ‘guilt by association’ that is being made. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 5:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/683 "2022-01-27T17:47:45Z")
So if gankers start griefing people, you aren’t going to hold me responsible, even if I publicly and repeatedly refuse to disavow toxic behaviour? ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 6:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/684 "2022-01-27T18:11:26Z")
Why would I hold you responsible for some activity you were not directly involved in ? And who wants to spend their entire day disavowing stuff anyway. Expecting people to disavow stuff every 5 seconds smacks of being like some McCarthy witch hunt. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 6:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/685 "2022-01-27T18:47:04Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > It most definitely _is_ a straw man when one has Destiny outright saying ( and you implying )…" Why don’t _you_ _and the rest of the AGs_ report those people "…and basically tarring all AG with the same brush. > > Nobody is responsible for anyone else’s bad behaviour just because they engage in a similar play style. ? I’m not saying report them. I’m saying don’t stand for their behavior. So let me ask you this: Do you support Razorback/Drac sexually harrassing Aiko in and out of game, because she is playing the game as intended? Yes or no? > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > Absolute nonsense. It would violate a basic principle that people are responsible for _their own_ misdemeanours and you can’t blame person B for person A’s crimes. Tarring all members of some group with the crimes of one person is actually no different at all to precisely the sort of stereotyping you seek to complain about. You realize how faulty your logic is right? There are a ton of real world examples that prove you absolutely wrong 😃 > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > Why would I hold you responsible for some activity you were not directly involved in ? And who wants to spend their entire day disavowing stuff anyway. Expecting people to disavow stuff every 5 seconds smacks of being like some McCarthy witch hunt. So do you support what Drac and Razorback are doing? Yes or no? ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 6:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/686 "2022-01-27T18:50:07Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > So do you support what Drac and Razorback are doing? Yes or no? I’m reminded of the hijacking in which some lady was asked ’ are you a Christian, or some other religion’…and her response was ’ I’m a tourist !'. ---
**Author:** ![Adm\_Malkaviano](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/adm_malkaviano/32/496610_2.png) [@Adm\_Malkaviano](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Adm_Malkaviano)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 7:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/687 "2022-01-27T19:00:58Z")
Sounds like an EVE expert to me. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 7:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/688 "2022-01-27T19:15:27Z")
Sounds like something _else_ to me, and it rhymes with “juicy.” [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769.md?page=33) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769.md?page=35)