# Criminals and gank failures **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Created:** [October 31, 2021, 7:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769 "2021-10-31T07:15:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 53
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 6:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/1057 "2022-02-09T18:02:47Z")
YES! We will fight the gankers! We will log into the forums and we will post at them, and we will cry loudly when CCP closes the threads, and we will blame the gankers always and forever, and we will be there in local on grid to watch them gank, because watching is half the battle, and we will toss 0% at their vessels, so that if they ever bother to look at their lossmail then they will see that we were there, right beneath CONCORD, and we will furiously orbit the wrong gate and warp to the target after it is already done, and we will shoot at the empty pods so that they can dock up more quickly, and we will celebrate our ineptitude, and we will PRETEND that any of this constitutes meaningful effective gameplay, because if YOU DREAM IT YOU CAN ACHIEVE IT. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 6:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/1058 "2022-02-09T18:03:50Z")
> [@Githany Red](#): > > remember how bad it was for small corp untill the war Dec thing changed > [@Githany Red](#): > > I’ll do what I can to fight you Hmm, interesting. Someone actually just posted a new thread about this very thing in C&P. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 6:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/1059 "2022-02-09T18:10:35Z")
> [@Hazen Koraka](#): > > I don’t think there’s anything mysterious about what the gankers do. What they do is troll and be toxic and get threads closed due to the standard CCP Spiel with the ruleset. Exactly this. I would call that a gank failure. > [@Githany Red](#): > > I do know what you mean but what we do is reactive not proactive , people can’t sit in uedama all day waiting and as have happened in the past we form large fleets that can stop them they simply pack up . A very important point, the ganker make ISK by ganking, AG don’t make ISK stopping ganks, so it is only something people can do every so often. > [@Githany Red](#): > > What are you going to do with 15 people if you’re only active is stopping ganks and they stop ganking. And the main issue. > [@Githany Red](#): > > Also one aspect you’re missing completely, the subversive actions the gankers have taken part in , people have been in the past afraid to speak out or take action . When I started this I was warned and indeed felt alone but very slowly got to know some solo members that did the same as I . The fear of being exposed and their mains being targeted is very real for most of the victims… > [@Githany Red](#): > > Fear makes them seem pro-ganker in the hope that they don’t get grief. Seen that so many times. > [@Githany Red](#): > > Your are dead right when we have had a fleet of 10 people we have stopped many ganks but do it once or twice and the gankers change. As it has happened . They counter the counters, and they have a fall back counter that is difficult to interdict because it costs too much for AG to do so. Also if he took the time to observe this Saturday, Kusion was faking the gate and switching it around because we had about 30+ AG in Uedama. > [@Githany Red](#): > > As for the AG Intel channels the have there uses but they are only to warn people what’s about, many people thank me for reporting there ,they Dock up and wait out the storm. Good intel is so important, informing people that the gankers are FR helps get some people through. > [@Githany Red](#): > > So a good post but really just scratching the surface of the pros and cons. He spent a couple of days, good damage, using a ship that works well, but he has indeed barely scratched the surface. But it does explain why so few people want to do it, mainly because a lot of the time you are quite alone. > [@Githany Red](#): > > We will never give up the resistance to them and their Null overlords 😉 Here here… 🍿 ---
**Author:** ![Githany\_Red](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/githany_red/32/378551_2.png) [@Githany\_Red](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Githany_Red)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 6:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/1060 "2022-02-09T18:32:23Z")
> [@Destiny Corrupted](#): > > Hmm, interesting. Someone actually just posted a new thread about this very thing in C&P. Oh yes , funny how things pop up , btw do you know if you need a structure to have a mutual war , was just wondering hope you don’t mind me asking ---
**Author:** ![Githany\_Red](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/githany_red/32/378551_2.png) [@Githany\_Red](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Githany_Red)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 6:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/1061 "2022-02-09T18:36:46Z")
> [@Aiko Danuja](#): > > YES! We will fight the gankers! We will log into the forums and we will post at them So can I only post on the forums if I have time to be logged in , I am sorry I can’t always be online but these forums allow me to keep my interest going why away from pc and home. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 6:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/1062 "2022-02-09T18:36:48Z")
> [@Githany Red](#): > > btw do you know if you need a structure to have a mutual war , was just wondering hope you don’t mind me asking Mutual wars have no requirements of any kind: > **[Mutual War](https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/360005659379-Mutual-War)** > > Mutual Wars differ from normal wars in several points: > > they are free and do not incur a weekly war bill > they do not require a War HQ to be set by either party > there is no requirement for either si... ---
**Author:** ![Githany\_Red](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/githany_red/32/378551_2.png) [@Githany\_Red](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Githany_Red)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 6:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/1063 "2022-02-09T18:43:39Z")
Lovely I have an interesting idea 😌 ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 6:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/1064 "2022-02-09T18:52:56Z")
Wonderful I have a cunning plan 🤗 ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 9:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/1065 "2022-02-09T21:23:34Z")
> [@Githany Red](#): > > people can’t sit in uedama all day waiting Why not? The gankers do it as well, they sit on the station, waiting until their scout reports something, probably having a nice time on teamspeak and if the action is going to happen they undock and go. So is the job of anti-gankers, your scouts have to report possible targets, watch the station the gankers sit on or scan down their safespots and if the action is going to happen your damagedealers/repairers have to be their ships ready. In the meantime you sit on voicecomm having a relaxed evening and smacktalk a bit in local. To be honest, most Lowsec/0.0-Gatecamps or FW-plex baiting or even miningsessions are not much different. You need people willing to spend their time doing it, just like they have people willing to do their ganking and waiting. > [@Githany Red](#): > > What are you going to do with 15 people if you’re only active is stopping ganks and they stop ganking. You call it a victory? Advertise it, make it known that you have effectively protected dozens of possible victims and build a reputation around it. Feast on the gankers frustration that they have to sit on the station with their 30 people and see Marauder after Marauder travel while they miss all the billions in loot. Thats basically the job of every cop out there: mission accomplished if nothing bad has happened. If they log, fine. If they move, follow. The last part of your argument can be summarized: you are afraid, they are not. Whatever bad things can they to do you? Even if they try, use an alt and create and fund an alt-corp for like-minded people, non related to your mains (and tell really nobody!). There is plenty of space in the roleplay department for whiteknighting or spacepolice-corps if you ask me. If you don’t want that because it is too much effort, we have part two: they are dedicated to what they are doing and you are not. Both combined is the reason why they are “winning”, and rightly so! > [@Dracvlad](#): > > Your observations on Marauders are spot on, I used a Celestis to remove that initial tackle if the ganker tackle was -10. Unfortunately thats mostly pointless (haha). 99% of the victims are just confused or afk. They sit there like duck staring at their monitor and don’t realize what happens. Imho a celestis is a very ineffective ship to use solo, because you don’t remove DPS nor harden the target up. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > Did you try to set this up? Try to do it and then tell me how you got on, then we can exchange notes. I just did some solo killing for test purposes. I am one of these “familiy dads” playing 90% solo in this game a few hours every now and then. Neither have the contacts nor time to “set something up”. Just pointing out what is from my observations the problem with AntiGanking. Its not the mechanics, its the people. The problem is caused by highly organized and active players, it can only be fought by highly and active players. Bittervetting is pointless here. ---
**Author:** ![Githany\_Red](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/githany_red/32/378551_2.png) [@Githany\_Red](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Githany_Red)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 9:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/1066 "2022-02-09T21:34:03Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > You call it a victory? Advertise it, We do , here in the forums , in local and in game channels . Literally saved a freighter once , posted in local that a gank failed and Aiko still in her pod after being alphed said " no we never , we never fail pleds." They will always dismiss any action we take . Heard from a spy they dislike our Ew burst which is nice to know 😸 > [@Syzygium](#): > > The problem is caused by highly organized and active players, it can only be fought by highly and active players. And this is a very good point . In reality it can take far less AG pilots to stop a gank than the gankers have . We stopped Kusion gank twice in a row, the 3rd time he just made a point . I think 10 well planned AG ships fit to complement each other can have a very good chance of stopping a large gank fleet but as I said it’s all reactive for us . Maybe we should set time we clear a sys so we can have the numbers for that set time , that would be more proactive. I might try that . ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 9:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/1067 "2022-02-09T21:48:37Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > Unfortunately thats mostly pointless (haha). 99% of the victims are just confused or afk. They sit there like duck staring at their monitor and don’t realize what happens. Imho a celestis is a very ineffective ship to use solo, because you don’t remove DPS nor harden the target up. That just shows that you don’t understand things, though you obviously know how to PvP. Jason Kusion is what I would call the best ganker in the game, he watched as his tackle failed as his catalysts landed, and their prey a nice Vargur moonwalked out of there, what’s more I have done this to him several times. You tell me that you saved two Marauders, but what I did was enable them to warp out and not get any where near dying. Because the point never even applied to them, Jason Kusion and his Caracal suicide point went from 153 km locking range to 6.7 km locking range. Tell me again that I was ineffective? Of course he countered, he brought in more tackle, but he failed. > [@Syzygium](#): > > I just did some solo killing for test purposes. I am one of these “familiy dads” playing 90% solo in this game a few hours every now and then. Neither have the contacts nor time to “set something up”. Just pointing out what is from my observations the problem with AntiGanking. Its not the mechanics, its the people. The problem is caused by highly organized and active players, **it can only be fought by highly and active players**. Bittervetting is pointless here. Githany pointed out the issues here as did I. You did how long? two days, and you barely scratched the surface of anything. You could not see why the Celestis was effective. Nothing to do with bittervetting or anything like that, but the real question is where do you get those highly active players from, how do you keep them interested, how do you reward them, how can you do that , are you a leader? The stage is yours? I would really like to see you go up against Kusion, and as you have some corp mates or even alliance mates that could be talked into doing this you could, couldn’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Githany\_Red](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/githany_red/32/378551_2.png) [@Githany\_Red](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Githany_Red)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 9:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/1068 "2022-02-09T21:53:51Z")
So who’s up for **Free Uedama Friday’s** ---
**Author:** ![Same\_Old\_Topics](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/same_old_topics/32/282720_2.png) [@Same\_Old\_Topics](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Same_Old_Topics)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 10:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/1069 "2022-02-09T22:42:12Z")
Im on and even remembered the password for the minerbumping chat room. Where everyone is?! ---
**Author:** ![Githany\_Red](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/githany_red/32/378551_2.png) [@Githany\_Red](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Githany_Red)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 10:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/1070 "2022-02-09T22:52:54Z")
It’s now" why was I ganker" I believe but I have a ban ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 11:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/1071 "2022-02-09T23:04:40Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > Jason Kusion is what I would call the best ganker in the game, he watched as his tackle failed as his catalysts landed, and their prey a nice Vargur moonwalked out of there, what’s more I have done this to him several times. That is of course fine if it works. But thats one of ten maybe. Unfortunately it won’t work in most cases because the target will just stay there, not realizing he must initiate warp again or MJD out or overhat MWD to burn off. So you may safe 1 of 10 targets, better than nothing of course but still pretty ineffective imho. On the other hand, all these Catalysts didn’t pull criminal timer and probably warped off because their target was gone, so the only cost for the gankers was the suicice tackle (and the missed loot if you like, but thats opportunity cost which is really hard to calculate since you do not know how much would have dropped and how much they will additionally get from not needing to wait the 15min criminal timer and just gank another target they would have otherwise missed while sitting out their timer). But as said, breaking the suicide tackle is better than nothing. I personally tend to believe DPS is more nasty for them. As much as possible (Oracle, Talos, Naga, Tornado) for the first 5 ships, then adding remoterep, then adding ewar. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > two days, and you barely scratched the surface of anything. I tend to disagree, that “surface” as you call it is everything there is. There are no deeper mechanics or secret knowledge. If you have rough experience in actual small- to midscale-PvP you can perfectly learn how to Gank or AntiGank within a few hours. You sound hurt, but you shouldn’t, your tackle-breaking Celestis is a good start, as it is the Falcon of Veronique Schiller that is sometimes active or Felicie H0shi’s Damagedealers. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > Nothing to do with bittervetting or anything like that, but the real question is where do you get those highly active players from, how do you keep them interested, how do you reward them, how can you do that , are you a leader? The stage is yours? I would really like to see you go up against Kusion, and as you have some corp mates or even alliance mates that could be talked into doing this you could, couldn’t you? As said, I neither have the time nor even the goal to set up such a thing. I was a PvP corp CEO for some years, the amount of time and effort is way over what I can put into the game. Also I have never been successfully ganked in Highsec, Novus Ordo tried to gank my AbyssRunner once but failed horribly so ganking is no real problem for me. My corp and alliance is pretty much inactive, there are like 3 active pilots, one lives in a WH, one does PvE and I lurk in HS mostly playing on Alts exploring the Industry side of EvE for now. And we all chose our corp because its a more or less Casualcorp without any obligations, expections and everony can just do as he likes, sometimes we meet for Corpevents like grinding ISK in Wormholes, but mostly everone minds his own business, so for sure no enthusiasm for AntiGanking from that side. What you mention is all true: You have to find players, keep them interested and active and even reward them for what they are doing. And thats very hard to do, not only for a possible AntiGanking Corp but for every new small Corp out there. Such a project stands and fails with highly active leadership in the first place. If there is no one able and willing to do it (and that means playing basically 5 times a week during the primetime), doing all the orga work and especially funding it with large amounts of ISK for the initial logistics, nothing is going to happen at all. The corp and what they are doing needs to sound attractive for new players, so you will need to offer them what new players want most: knowledge, other like-minded people to play with, a financial reward and a goal. This means you have to actively recruit on the forums, discord and ingame via all means available. Then offering the new aspirants training, skillbooks, ships. They can fly a tackle-breaking Maulus or a FastTackler in a few days. They can learn how to scout, probe, the aggro mechanics, how to set up their overview etc. etc… but you have to actually train them. For newbies, such training sessions are highly valuable and keep them entertained. If they even end up on a killmail with their Maulus, Crucifier, Griffin or Slasher, great! Lead them to Lowsec, go Beltrat in Aridia in a Frigfleet for an evening and explain them the different game mechanics there, you can even fly L4 Missions in a RR-Frigfleet earning them money while learning how to remote-rep and setting up their watchlist if they are a logi. There are a thousand ways to start, but complaining on the boards will achieve nothing. I can totally respect if you a re not able to do that yourself like I am unable to do it for RL reasons. At our age (I am 40+) we simply might not have the time being a “Leader” of an active corporation. Someone from the young folks must emerge and say “ok, I am willing to put 20 hours a week in building up a counterpart to the Gankers” and then after some months of effort there can be results. But until this happens, nothing will change. And thats not CCP or the mechanics or the gankers to blame for. ---
**Author:** ![Same\_Old\_Topics](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/same_old_topics/32/282720_2.png) [@Same\_Old\_Topics](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Same_Old_Topics)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 11:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/1072 "2022-02-09T23:08:58Z")
Theres only four people. And they arent talking ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 11:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/1073 "2022-02-09T23:19:14Z")
The fundamental problem with antiganking is nobody actually wants to do it. They post here, more than they actually login. There’s no money to be made, and the targets don’t deserve to be saved. The gankers have more fun, are more charismatic, have more skills and experience, have more money, and make more money. The antigankers are mostly a bunch of bitterbear losers, salty about the time they were ganked years ago, and they have no idea what they are doing and nobody wants to join them. The antiganking ‘resistance’ will never succeed, because people who play the game for fun, and understand how to have fun, generally have no desire to waste their time hanging out with a bunch of permafailures who try to ‘save’ AFK nullsec freighters for no apparent reason. Why waste your time? Just go to lowsec and have fun. ---
**Author:** ![Same\_Old\_Topics](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/same_old_topics/32/282720_2.png) [@Same\_Old\_Topics](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Same_Old_Topics)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 11:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/1074 "2022-02-09T23:27:44Z")
> [@Aiko Danuja](#): > > Just go to lowsec and have fun. I made it to 8-YNBE in my rookie ship before i got exploded. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2022, 12:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/1075 "2022-02-10T00:06:47Z")
> [@Aiko Danuja](#): > > There’s no money to be made Nah! They could sell you Ganking Permits! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2022, 12:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769/1076 "2022-02-10T00:07:28Z")
Sales would require social skill. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769.md?page=52) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/criminals-and-gank-failures/334769.md?page=54)