# Cruisers now almost useless, thanks to Navy Destroyers **URL:** \ **Category:** PvP Ships & Modules\ **Created:** [November 9, 2022, 9:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673 "2022-11-09T09:01:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2022, 7:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/205 "2022-11-24T19:31:03Z")
Mm I’d say yes and no. I certainly think it’s been hard to balance ship roles and tiers. But I’ve done just fine in cruisers, depending on the target profile. However, in this instance the OP took a bad fight. She was overconfident in her bling, brought a brawl fit to a kite fight and died. It wasn’t so much ship disparity as it was tactics and piloting skill. ---
**Author:** ![Maeltstome](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/maeltstome/32/515012_2.png) [@Maeltstome](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Maeltstome)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2022, 10:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/206 "2022-11-24T22:20:33Z")
The OP’s situation aside, i don’t think i’d ever run a T1 cruiser. The performance is awful when you can just get an attack or combat BC for not much more. They’re both fully insurable, so the hull cost is irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2022, 11:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/207 "2022-11-24T23:20:57Z")
For me, it’s definitely nostalgia and still can be fun. However, it is increasingly hard to find a good target profile, especially solo. ---
**Author:** ![Nujenif\_Talvanen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nujenif_talvanen/32/433113_2.png) [@Nujenif\_Talvanen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nujenif_Talvanen)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2022, 6:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/208 "2022-11-26T06:35:43Z")
I LOVE the stabber. Nothing quite flies like it. Not the Hurricane, but it’s nice too. ---
**Author:** ![Maeltstome](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/maeltstome/32/515012_2.png) [@Maeltstome](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Maeltstome)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2022, 12:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/209 "2022-11-26T12:50:51Z")
It fly’s like a frigate. A big frigate. I mean that in every sense of the word. I’d much rather see one of those high slots changed to a mid slot so we can _pretend_ it’s a cruiser and not just a Jaguar with slightly more range. ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2022, 5:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/210 "2022-11-26T17:33:04Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > She got kited and smited basically. She will have lost as had a active fit. If she used a buffer, I dont see how it would be possible without ewar. The dessy has similar DPS with 280mm howitzers at 20km range as a rupture with 425mm autocannons using barrage, the rupture able to hit out to 43KM. The rupture has 30k EHP, the dessy will only have about 6K ehp. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2022, 7:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/211 "2022-11-26T19:43:56Z")
Right, it’s a skill issue. She got overconfident, got blapped and cried for an un-needed nerf. ---
**Author:** ![Nujenif\_Talvanen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nujenif_talvanen/32/433113_2.png) [@Nujenif\_Talvanen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nujenif_Talvanen)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2022, 9:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/212 "2022-11-26T21:13:10Z")
Nonononono I love dual neuts! I would rather have dual neuts than just another 5 mid 4 low cruiser that we already seem to have enough of. Cough cough Caldari. ---
**Author:** ![Maeltstome](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/maeltstome/32/515012_2.png) [@Maeltstome](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Maeltstome)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2022, 9:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/213 "2022-11-26T21:55:04Z")
So you’re brawling in a stabber…? What cursed timeline are we in?! ---
**Author:** ![Nujenif\_Talvanen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nujenif_talvanen/32/433113_2.png) [@Nujenif\_Talvanen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nujenif_Talvanen)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2022, 11:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/214 "2022-11-26T23:30:52Z")
AB + Scram + XLASB + Invuln mids 180mm autos, dual small neuts DCU, double gyro, that power unit thing that gives powergrid, shield, shield regen, cap, and cap regen in the lows OR AB + Double LSE + Scram mids 180mm Autos with Medium Neuts Same lows ---
**Author:** ![Maeltstome](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/maeltstome/32/515012_2.png) [@Maeltstome](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Maeltstome)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2022, 2:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/215 "2022-11-27T14:46:39Z")
I have perfect fitting skills. Even with that, i’m 12% over in processor A full cycle of the ASB put you at just under 30k EKP before reload. 320 gun DPS. No web. This fit looks truly awful. ---
**Author:** ![elitatwo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elitatwo/32/373473_2.png) [@elitatwo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/elitatwo)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2022, 3:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/216 "2022-11-27T15:47:25Z")
> [@Nujenif\_Talvanen](#): > > that power unit thing that gives powergrid, shield, shield regen, cap, and cap regen in the lows Or more commonly known as “Power diagnostic control unit”. Anyways, if you downgrade the ab from t2 to the enduring one, you won’t need the power diagnostic and can fit a tracking enhancer or a nano. Using your first variation of that stabber fit, it leaves 0.5 cpu and 1 powergrid left, using 2x medium processor overclocking rigs. ---
**Author:** ![Maeltstome](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/maeltstome/32/515012_2.png) [@Maeltstome](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Maeltstome)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2022, 10:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/217 "2022-11-27T22:45:40Z")
I know we all have our race preferences… but it’s just a bad thorax at that point. And the rupture can also do it better right? The only thing the stabber does better is kite. And it flops under any gun-pressure from anything larger than a frigate. ---
**Author:** ![Nujenif\_Talvanen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nujenif_talvanen/32/433113_2.png) [@Nujenif\_Talvanen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nujenif_Talvanen)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 1:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/218 "2022-11-28T01:38:27Z")
My XLASB Stabber makes a very sad face. I am going to be flying a lot of them soon, I think, because it seems people underestimate them. I soloed a Vedmak in a Stabber. ---
**Author:** ![Nujenif\_Talvanen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nujenif_talvanen/32/433113_2.png) [@Nujenif\_Talvanen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nujenif_Talvanen)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 1:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/219 "2022-11-28T01:38:57Z")
> [@elitatwo](#): > > Power diagnostic control unit ye that’s the one. Only one fitting rig ---
**Author:** ![Posh\_Wynoa\_Spice](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/posh_wynoa_spice/32/455534_2.png) [@Posh\_Wynoa\_Spice](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Posh_Wynoa_Spice)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 6:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/220 "2022-11-28T06:04:37Z")
> [@Nujenif\_Talvanen](#): > > I am going to be flying a lot of them soon, I think, because it seems people underestimate them. I soloed a Vedmak in a Stabber. Stabbers don’t need a lot of sacrifice in order to have good speed and align on them, unlike a vedmak that will need 3 nanofibers between the low and rig slots to match up to a stabber. the range that a stabber can hit to with auto cannons firing barrage is also greatly underestimated by most. at least from the perspective of my dual repping hecate, a stabber is much scarrier than a RLML caracal, especially with a talented pilot in it. ---
**Author:** ![Nujenif\_Talvanen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nujenif_talvanen/32/433113_2.png) [@Nujenif\_Talvanen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nujenif_Talvanen)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 7:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/221 "2022-11-28T07:04:22Z")
I bet those caracals use fury without a web or TP hehe ---
**Author:** ![Maeltstome](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/maeltstome/32/515012_2.png) [@Maeltstome](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Maeltstome)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 10:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/222 "2022-11-28T10:44:07Z")
> [@Posh\_Wynoa\_Spice](#): > > > [@Nujenif\_Talvanen](#): > > > > I am going to be flying a lot of them soon, I think, because it seems people underestimate them. I soloed a Vedmak in a Stabber. > > Stabbers don’t need a lot of sacrifice in order to have good speed and align on them, unlike a vedmak that will need 3 nanofibers between the low and rig slots to match up to a stabber. > > the range that a stabber can hit to with auto cannons firing barrage is also greatly underestimated by most. I can’t even wrap my head around how bad people in Vedmaks must be to get solo’d by a stabber. If they turn on their guns and their repper and go AFK, they probably win. The Vedmak is on another level compared to the stabber. it’s 90% as fast, more agile, better fitting, better EHP, better slot layour, better damage+projection+tracking. I don’t see this “solo vedmak” kill on your KB anywhere so please link it - because there are some questions that need to be answered. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 11:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/223 "2022-11-28T11:01:20Z")
Yet I believe he’s killed people. As the OP has proven, does ship fitting matter? Of course. However pilot skill always should play a role too. The reason why I roasted the OP so hard is the same reasoning behind your post. If it merely comes down to fittings or like “trig ships are better” than the game is poorer for it. Not to say that skill should always trump equipment, as a part of skill is bringing a proper fit but also knowing your engagement profile. You’d be surprised that people just go on Eve Workbench, pull a fit and expect to wtfpwn only to get wtfpwned themselves. Yennoe, like how the OP brought a brawl fit to a kite fight 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Maeltstome](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/maeltstome/32/515012_2.png) [@Maeltstome](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Maeltstome)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 11:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/224 "2022-11-28T11:13:12Z")
We’re talking about game balance/ship balance. Arguing that ship is balanced because your opponent might be an idiot is so mind-bogglingly irrelevant that I can’t even understand why you typed it. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673.md?page=10) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673.md?page=12)