# Cruisers now almost useless, thanks to Navy Destroyers **URL:** \ **Category:** PvP Ships & Modules\ **Created:** [November 9, 2022, 9:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673 "2022-11-09T09:01:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Verlyn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/verlyn/32/435163_2.png) [@Verlyn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Verlyn)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 11:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/21 "2022-11-13T11:07:19Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Um. You’ll notice you said fleet right? > > So in other words what you’re fighting like 4v1? Of course you are going to die LOL. Thrasher FLEET ISSUE, idiot. > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Depends, her vernacular was quite unclear. > > As you say, its a skill issue. > > She’s mad cause she got blapped. I was pre-repped, and with HG askelpians. Not a skill issue, HP and reps didnt hold because of arty ROF. The thrasher was also using a pair of abyssal Gyros, so that helped a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 11:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/22 "2022-11-13T11:43:00Z")
> [@Verlyn](#): > > Thrasher FLEET ISSUE, idiot. Ain’t my fault you can’t be more precise 😃 > [@Verlyn](#): > > I was pre-repped, and with HG askelpians. Not a skill issue, HP and reps didnt hold because of arty ROF. > > The thrasher was also using a pair of abyssal Gyros, so that helped a bit. Oh. So skill issue. Got it. LOL, I love how peeps just can’t take the L like gentlemen but then cry to daddy CCP to save them. Get gud 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Verlyn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/verlyn/32/435163_2.png) [@Verlyn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Verlyn)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 11:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/23 "2022-11-13T11:49:46Z")
pre-repped, HG askelpians, what more can you do really ? Reps didnt hold over time. Not a personal skill issue. Stop trying to appear good at forum pvp… ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 11:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/24 "2022-11-13T11:55:42Z")
1. I am good at forum PvP 😃 2. It is a skill issue. There is a lot more you can do, including becoming a better manual pilot The fact you can’t admit you got outflown says it all LOL. There is always room for improvement. Your ego is most likely what prevents you from getting better. Again, self inflicted skill issue 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 12:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/25 "2022-11-13T12:44:53Z")
> [@Verlyn](#): > > Thrasher FLEET ISSUE, idiot. To be fair, ZKill shows 2 Thrasher Fleet Issues on the rupture killmail. Thats a fleet of Thrasher Fleets. > [@Verlyn](#): > > If you’re specced in an active rep cruiser, you are simply quite Fckd, even against one Thrasher fleet + 1 frig … > > And we’re talking fully HG Askelpian spec, with dual active rep cruiser. > > Still dead, reps and HP do not keep up with current ThrasfherFleet arty ROF. > [@Verlyn](#): > > I was pre-repped, and with HG askelpians. Not a skill issue, HP and reps didnt hold because of arty ROF. > > The thrasher was also using a pair of abyssal Gyros, so that helped a bit. It sounds like you learned a lesson about taking a somewhat blinged T1 (non navy) cruiser up against 2 _Navy_ class destroyers also somewhat blinged. Great! Better knowledge for next time. As elitatwo said (and you ignored): > [@elitatwo](#): > > You see, the thrasher could already do just that. But since most people go with doing what everyone else is doing, no one was flying them until yesterday. So why not simply take the lessons you obviously learned and move on, instead of creating a “please nerf” thread and subjecting yourself to the peanut gallery on the forums and lashing out when it turns out not everyone supports your rallying “plz nerf” cry? ---
**Author:** ![Oriki\_Ahvilen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/oriki_ahvilen/32/395043_2.png) [@Oriki\_Ahvilen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Oriki_Ahvilen)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 1:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/26 "2022-11-13T13:30:55Z")
So a couple of Navy Thrashers managed to kill a lone Omen cruiser… Why am I not surprised by this ?! Given the cost of a fitted Navy Thrasher and the fact that it was a small fleet of them… Not to mention this was already easily done with a couple of normal AC or arty Thrashers. Come on, be realistic about it . They don’t make t1 cruisers obsolete ! Hint: Caracals with t2 fury ammo (it applies very well to destroyers), dual neut FW Stabbers (for those Navy Coercers and Catalysts), dual rep Throraxes and Vexors, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Verlyn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/verlyn/32/435163_2.png) [@Verlyn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Verlyn)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 2:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/27 "2022-11-13T14:42:57Z")
Well, I did test the same fit vs a single thrasher fleet issue + hookbill with a couple of mates just to figure out the limits of active rep against navy destroyers and I was still getting outrepped. We could start debating excel sheets if you like. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 2:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/28 "2022-11-13T14:55:02Z")
> [@Verlyn](#): > > We could start debating excel sheets if you like. Sure, I plugged in the turret stats for 220mm Vulcans with Barrage M against a target with 120 sig radius (as a representative value for a Thrasher Navy Issue) and it looks like the quality of your hits are going to be very poor with even the slightest transversal, so the destroyer at range won’t need much rep: ![Screen Shot 2022-11-13 at 15.53.18](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/7/1/9/7195dc1bb8fea073e646e53b27404597b3e258a6.png) ---
**Author:** ![Verlyn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/verlyn/32/435163_2.png) [@Verlyn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Verlyn)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 3:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/29 "2022-11-13T15:07:42Z")
We both know that them pulling range here was not really the issue here, I also had a friend coming to help for that fight. He was 1 jump out. The issue was getting outrepped and dead, in a less than 10 sec, while pre-dual-blingrepped + HG implants + T2 repping rigs. In a regular fight against non-navy destroyers, the lack of ROF wouldve mattered a lot, and help me survive at least a bit longer. Even against other bling fits, in regards to active repping in general, ROF bonus is still way too high imo to make active rep cruisers a viable option against that kind of setup. Most fights now in rupture on I will bring amulets and an armor buffer with mwd. I will pretty much forget all my active rep cruisers to fight against navy destroyers, yes, and to me, that’s a big part of my most favorite gameplay, gone, unless I find regular destroyer + frig configs to play against. PS: I could say I will not even try fielding triple rep Myrmidons anymore, as likely the same problem will follow. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 3:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/30 "2022-11-13T15:40:45Z")
> [@Verlyn](#): > > We both know that them pulling range here was not really the issue here, I also had a friend coming to help for that fight. Stop putting words in my mouth and we can have a productive conversation. What you don’t realize is that pulling range _is_ what helped them. I shared your graph before that shows hit quality _at best_ 50% which means your actual DPS is _at best_ 40% of your paper DPS. This is their graph for 280mm Howitzer Arty II’s with quake close range ammo: ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/5/4/6/54619e2a08538d607a4a82caf8bcca96f2286731.png) Their hit quality on you for similar ranges is _at worst_ 75% which means they’re probably doing 70% of their paper DPS _at worst_. As elitatwo showed, the DPS for one is about 325, so let’s say for two it is 650 DPS. 70% of that is 455 DPS. Your armor rep was 142.4 hp/s (raw) and with the 53.63% HG bonus that’s 218.77 hp/s (raw). If they were using Quake and mostly hitting your EXP/KIN resists, you were indeed healing about 450 EHP/s. And your 4 220mm Vulcan II’s with Barrage in your rupture fit with no damage mods is about 178 DPS. With your _at best_ 40% DPS you’re doing 71.2 DPS. That’s less than your 5x Acolyte IIs that are doing what… 80 DPS? For a total of 151.2 DPS. Using Hail or Republic Fleet EMP/Fusion/etc would not have improved the guns’ hit quality. So in summary we have: | Who | DPS | Rep | | --- | --- | --- | | You (at best) | 151.2 | 450 EHP/s | | Them (at worst) | 455 | ?? | | Them (at best) | 585 | ?? | (Edit to note: this is all using elitatwo’s fit; you say they ran abyssal-rolled stuff, so _their numbers_ in this table are already too low!) Already not looking good with you at your best and them at their worst. _Now what about that range_? Well you can see in the graph I posted before: > [@Io\_Koval](#): > > ![Screen Shot 2022-11-13 at 15.53.18](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/7/1/9/7195dc1bb8fea073e646e53b27404597b3e258a6.png) > > Screen Shot 2022-11-13 at 15.53.181342×639 7.02 KB Your “to-hit” bars have wide variance. This is because every 500m/s of transversal between the two of you, your hit quality goes _way down_, even at range. That bottom bar at each range is 2km/s which is what elitatwo’s fit does, which is why I’m roughly estimating 50% being a best-case scenario for you since orbiting is usually not done at 100% speed. Transversal affects your hit quality between something like 0.25 to 0.75, a dynamic range of 0.5! That’s _massive_. However! Look at their hit-quality graph in this post above. Transversal speed at range affects their hit quality between 0.7 and 0.85, only a 0.15 dynamic range! That’s comparably much smaller! So before you say “both of us know it isn’t about range” and put words in my mouth, perhaps look at the very spreadsheets you demanded of me in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 3:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/31 "2022-11-13T15:43:21Z")
I am missing something here. This was a 2v1, T1 cruiser vs TWO navy destroyers. How does this make cruisers useless? ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 3:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/32 "2022-11-13T15:44:17Z")
Because “I paid a lot for a HG asklep pod and 2 deadspace armor reppers” is the prevailing argument so far. ---
**Author:** ![Verlyn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/verlyn/32/435163_2.png) [@Verlyn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Verlyn)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 5:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/33 "2022-11-13T17:09:24Z")
> [@Io\_Koval](#): > > Stop putting words in my mouth and we can have a productive conversation. > > What you don’t realize is that pulling range _is_ what helped them. I shared your graph before that shows hit quality _at best_ 50% which means your actual DPS is _at best_ 40% of your paper DPS. > > This is their graph for 280mm Howitzer Arty II’s with quake close range ammo: > > ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/5/4/6/54619e2a08538d607a4a82caf8bcca96f2286731.png) > > Their hit quality on you for similar ranges is _at worst_ 75% which means they’re probably doing 70% of their paper DPS _at worst_. > > As elitatwo showed, the DPS for one is about 325, so let’s say for two it is 650 DPS. 70% of that is 455 DPS. > > Your armor rep was 142.4 hp/s (raw) and with the 53.63% HG bonus that’s 218.77 hp/s (raw). If they were using Quake and mostly hitting your EXP/KIN resists, you were indeed healing about 450 EHP/s. > > And your 4 220mm Vulcan II’s with Barrage in your rupture fit with no damage mods is about 178 DPS. With your _at best_ 40% DPS you’re doing 71.2 DPS. That’s less than your 5x Acolyte IIs that are doing what… 80 DPS? For a total of 151.2 DPS. Using Hail or Republic Fleet EMP/Fusion/etc would not have improved the guns’ hit quality. > > So in summary we have: > > | Who | DPS | Rep | > | --- | --- | --- | > | You (at best) | 151.2 | 450 EHP/s | > | Them (at worst) | 455 | ?? | > | Them (at best) | 585 | ?? | > > (Edit to note: this is all using elitatwo’s fit; you say they ran abyssal-rolled stuff, so _their numbers_ in this table are already too low!) > > Already not looking good with you at your best and them at their worst. > > _Now what about that range_? > > Well you can see in the graph I posted before: > > > [@Io\_Koval](#): > > > > ![Screen Shot 2022-11-13 at 15.53.18](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/7/1/9/7195dc1bb8fea073e646e53b27404597b3e258a6.png) > > > > Screen Shot 2022-11-13 at 15.53.181342×639 7.02 KB > > Your “to-hit” bars have wide variance. This is because every 500m/s of transversal between the two of you, your hit quality goes _way down_, even at range. That bottom bar at each range is 2km/s which is what elitatwo’s fit does, which is why I’m roughly estimating 50% being a best-case scenario for you since orbiting is usually not done at 100% speed. Transversal affects your hit quality between something like 0.25 to 0.75, a dynamic range of 0.5! That’s _massive_. > > However! Look at their hit-quality graph in this post above. Transversal speed at range affects their hit quality between 0.7 and 0.85, only a 0.15 dynamic range! That’s comparably much smaller! > > So before you say “both of us know it isn’t about range” and put words in my mouth, perhaps look at the very spreadsheets you demanded of me in the first place. Thanks for putting all this work in clarifying the math of what I already know, witnessed and tested first hand … 😅 ie: Reps didn’t hold nearly as efficiently as a blinged out T1 Active rep setup should, against those odds IMO. Like I said, fight lasted around 10-15 seconds. Nowhere near enough time for a response from friends in sys, or 1j out. So all Im saying, against those setups, simply going buffer is the norm yet again, and standardizing boring bait cruiser gameplay, imo. I didn’t choose that ROF bonus, CCP did, Im only making an observation as to the kind of gameplay this will give on the long term. If all cruiser gameplay against navy dessies becomes buffer game, fine, but people shouldn’t complain about gameplay going stale later on … > [@Io\_Koval](#): > > Because “I paid a lot for a HG asklep pod and 2 deadspace armor reppers” is the prevailing argument so far. Yeah, now take a standard dual rep rupture, no implants, no bling, and see how it goes against just ONE of those arty Thrasher fleet issue. The conclusion will be even worse. So yeah, I thought blinging the crap out of it would help at least a bit in time/survivability, well not even. That will also go a long way with noobs trying to defend a plex and seeing one destroyer jumping in and instablappping the crap out of them, despite an active rep configuration that in the end: - Takes a lot more skill and micro-management than buffer config does. - Puts a lot more stress on the ship’s capacitor, leaving you more vulnerable to neuts. - Forces you to make hard powergrid fitting decisions. In general as a response to Navy Destroyers, active repping for cruisers should receive somewhat of a Buff to compensate, but that’s just me pipe dreaming of CCP actually worrying about balance when introducing new ships, for a change. ---
**Author:** ![elitatwo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elitatwo/32/373473_2.png) [@elitatwo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/elitatwo)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 6:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/34 "2022-11-13T18:16:42Z")
In my defense, I just slammed those fits together with no bling mods, just meta 4 and tech 2 wherever I could fit it. They were supposed to be buffer fit for fleet reps and whatever they would choose to bring. And I don’t look on zkill or whatever, I just put them together to the best of my knowledge and abilities. I wouldn’t even know, if people would fly them like this. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 6:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/35 "2022-11-13T18:53:11Z")
> [@Verlyn](#): > > Well, I did test the same fit vs a single thrasher fleet issue + hookbill with a couple of mates just to figure out the limits of active rep against navy destroyers and I was still getting outrepped. > > We could start debating excel sheets if you like. Again, skill issue 😃 I’m sure they fly better than you LOL. > [@Verlyn](#): > > We both know that them pulling range here was not really the issue here, I also had a friend coming to help for that fight. Wut. Course it is and the fact that you don’t understand this is why you burned LOL. > [@Verlyn](#): > > Most fights now in rupture on I will bring amulets and an armor buffer with mwd. > > I will pretty much forget all my active rep cruisers to fight against navy destroyers, yes, and to me, that’s a big part of my most favorite gameplay, gone, unless I find regular destroyer + frig configs to play against. > > PS: I could say I will not even try fielding triple rep Myrmidons anymore, as likely the same problem will follow. Aw. Adaptation is hard. LOL if you can’t kill a lone thrasher, even Navy with a _triple_ repped myrm, skill issue fr fr. You realize when new ships are introduced, the meta changes right? Welcome to MMOs 😃 > [@Io\_Koval](#): > > Transversal They don’t know what this means 😃 > [@Xeux](#): > > I am missing something here. This was a 2v1, T1 cruiser vs TWO navy destroyers. How does this make cruisers useless? Also they suck as a manual pilot and don’t understand that 😃 > [@Verlyn](#): > > Thanks for putting all this work in clarifying the math of what I already know, witnessed and tested first hand … 😅 You did. Hence why you burned in space 😃 And I really think your test is flawed. > [@Verlyn](#): > > Yeah, now take a standard dual rep rupture, no implants, no bling, and see how it goes against just ONE of those arty Thrasher fleet issue. > > The conclusion will be even worse. LOL, you realize you’re using T1 right? RIght? There will be limitations. Sorry. Welcome to reality. > [@Verlyn](#): > > In general as a response to Navy Destroyers, active repping for cruisers should receive somewhat of a Buff to compensate, but that’s just me pipe dreaming of CCP actually worrying about balance when introducing new ships, for a change. Why? Io explained your skill issue. And your ego prevented you from learning, as I said. Again, skill issue. ---
**Author:** ![Verlyn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/verlyn/32/435163_2.png) [@Verlyn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Verlyn)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 8:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/36 "2022-11-13T20:19:22Z")
Nice dissection skills you imbecile, however, an ab fitted autocannons rupture against 2 mwd arty navy thrashers has very little to do with manual piloting skils. Slingshot is out pf the question unless one of them makes a mistake on entry, which it is very easy not to do with a mwd fit dessie. So you just pre-rep and take it, and pray your reps hold for backup to arrive. In my case, or in any similar case, 10-15 seconds is nowhere near enough time for buddies to respond. ---
**Author:** ![Verlyn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/verlyn/32/435163_2.png) [@Verlyn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Verlyn)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 8:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/37 "2022-11-13T20:25:02Z")
The test we did with hookbill and arty thrasher was pure dps vs reps at optimal ranges. No manual piloting involved so your incessant labelling of me as a bad pilot i count as just BS trolling. As goes for the rest if your diatribes. ---
**Author:** ![Verlyn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/verlyn/32/435163_2.png) [@Verlyn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Verlyn)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 8:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/38 "2022-11-13T20:29:05Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > LOL, you realize you’re using T1 right? RIght? There will be limitations. Sorry. Welcome to reality. Theres a difference between a limitation, and a side of gameplay being swept under yo.u and forces into one you simply have less fun with. Ie:Buffer cruiser game. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 8:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/39 "2022-11-13T20:31:43Z")
> [@Verlyn](#): > > Nice dissection skills you imbecile, however, an ab fitted autocannons rupture against 2 mwd arty navy thrashers has very little to do with manual piloting skils. Slingshot is out pf the question unless one of them makes a mistake on entry, which it is very easy not to do with a mwd fit dessie. So you just pre-rep and take it, and pray your reps hold for backup to arrive. > > In my case, or in any similar case, 10-15 seconds is nowhere near enough time for buddies to respond. Oh. Must be why they kept range on you and picked you apart and didn’t let you apply that DPS 😃 > [@Verlyn](#): > > The test we did with hookbill and arty thrasher was pure dps vs reps at optimal ranges. > > No manual piloting involved so your incessant labelling of me as a bad pilot i count as just BS trolling. Oh. So you didn’t actually test it. Got it 😃 > [@Verlyn](#): > > Theres a difference between a limitation, and a side of gameplay being swept under yo.u and forces into one you simply have less fun with. Ie:Buffer cruiser game. Mmm no. You are fighting outnumbered, in a T1, vs navy variants. Death is a higher likelihood. LOL you really do have a skill issue huh? ---
**Author:** ![Verlyn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/verlyn/32/435163_2.png) [@Verlyn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Verlyn)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 8:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/40 "2022-11-13T20:50:50Z")
Oh then, please tell us how your master skillZ wouldve handled the same situation better in the same Rupture. Or, tell us how you would not have picked that fight at all in the first place, which, would be a self-defeating admission that no skills were or would not have to have been involved… [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673.md?page=3)