# Cruisers now almost useless, thanks to Navy Destroyers **URL:** \ **Category:** PvP Ships & Modules\ **Created:** [November 9, 2022, 9:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673 "2022-11-09T09:01:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2022, 11:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/63 "2022-11-14T11:13:18Z")
> [@Verlyn](#): > > Yes, buffer fit, double webs, MWD. > > Done, > > But that is not fun to me. Nope. I’m betting you didn’t even do the one small tweak that Io pointed out to you with his analysis LOL. ---
**Author:** ![Verlyn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/verlyn/32/435163_2.png) [@Verlyn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Verlyn)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2022, 11:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/64 "2022-11-14T11:26:54Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Nope. I’m betting you didn’t even do the one small tweak that Io pointed out to you with his analysis LOL. Are you trying to waste our time again ? There were no tweaks pointed, only affirming what I already knew, that reps couldn’t hold, and that my dps was too low to make a difference with the range, in vulcans against arty… well, no ■■■■. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2022, 11:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/65 "2022-11-14T11:37:07Z")
> [@Verlyn](#): > > There were no tweaks pointed, only affirming what I already knew, that reps couldn’t hold, and that my dps was too low to make a difference with the range, in vulcans against arty… well, no ■■■■. LOL. You still can’t figure it out and it’s staring you in the face. Skill issue fr fr 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Verlyn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/verlyn/32/435163_2.png) [@Verlyn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Verlyn)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2022, 1:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/66 "2022-11-14T13:52:35Z")
Yes Yes, keep ship moving, maintain speed, ab On, overheat if necessary, manage transversal to mitigate hit quality, etc … Basic ■■■■, of which I all did. None of which helped, dead in seconds. Anything else ? ---
**Author:** ![Oskar\_Milde](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/oskar_milde/32/396309_2.png) [@Oskar\_Milde](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Oskar_Milde)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2022, 2:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/67 "2022-11-14T14:07:18Z")
Is this one of these situations where the _only_ ship that you will ever accept using is the specific Rupture fit you lost the other day? I mean, the immediate thing that springs to mind is that if your opponent’s have all upshipped from trashers to navy trashers, perhaps upshipping to a navy cruiser for your end of the game makes sense? I am certainly no expert in the lowsec PvP meta, but seems like there would be a few options that would give you a similar engagement profile and/or survivability without having to start nerfing other people’s fun. The Exeq Navy in particular springs to mind as potentially being tankier, faster, and applying more DPS at better range. ---
**Author:** ![Verlyn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/verlyn/32/435163_2.png) [@Verlyn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Verlyn)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2022, 2:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/68 "2022-11-14T14:16:42Z")
Well, I consider that style of gameplay in itself to receive a significant nerf with the advent of navy destroyers. So I can choose whatever else I want to fight such profiles, sure, and efficiently, but I’d basically be forced into a gameplay I do not like to play in, or forced to abandon one I liked. My main complain behind the OP was just that. More on the fact I built over hundred active rep cruisers for this update and I’ll just be letting them rust in the hangar for quite a while. ■■■■ it really lmao … ---
**Author:** ![Oskar\_Milde](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/oskar_milde/32/396309_2.png) [@Oskar\_Milde](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Oskar_Milde)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2022, 2:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/69 "2022-11-14T14:20:22Z")
So… Yeah, the only ship that is acceptable is that exact rupture. It’s a shame, really, that so much time without significant updates has gone by to allow people to get so stuck in their ways. This is the greater failing of CCP, in my mind. In many ways it’s the same as the nullbloc types who refuse to do anything other than spin Ishtars for isk. ---
**Author:** ![Verlyn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/verlyn/32/435163_2.png) [@Verlyn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Verlyn)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2022, 2:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/70 "2022-11-14T14:23:42Z")
No, I have vexors, vexor navies, stabbers, exeq navy as well, all of which, would simply not hold reps against a couple of good fleet thrasher pilots, even with HG Askelpians plugged in and some good ammount of piloting. I worked through all my fits since yesterday evening, none of them fit the profile. The greater failing of CCP is introducing new ■■■■, without proper balance backtesting in regards to existing gameplay metas. Approx Total isk gone to waste in those cruisers: 50 bil Approx Total RL time gone to waste in building, and moving them: 1 month. Will I ever get that back ? Probably not. ---
**Author:** ![Oskar\_Milde](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/oskar_milde/32/396309_2.png) [@Oskar\_Milde](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Oskar_Milde)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2022, 2:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/71 "2022-11-14T14:53:54Z")
Hmm. And there’s no way to simply out-DPS these fits? The one that caught you doesn’t look too tanky, seems like if they’re coming in pairs just aim to win the dps race against tfi 1, then you can deal with tfi 2 at leisure. Also worth noting that was a particularly blingy trasher fleet, if the guys lossmail is anything to go by. He’s absolutely squeezing the maximum out of that hull. ---
**Author:** ![YaBoyee](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yaboyee/32/337696_2.png) [@YaBoyee](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/YaBoyee)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2022, 2:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/72 "2022-11-14T14:56:39Z")
Maybe Ccp did balance the game, against solo bling cruisers. ---
**Author:** ![Verlyn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/verlyn/32/435163_2.png) [@Verlyn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Verlyn)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2022, 2:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/73 "2022-11-14T14:57:26Z")
> [@Oskar\_Milde](#): > > Hmm. And there’s no way to simply out-DPS these fits? The one that caught you doesn’t look too tanky, seems like if they’re coming in pairs just aim to win the dps race against tfi 1, then you can deal with tfi 2 at leisure. > > Also worth noting that was a particularly blingy trasher fleet, if the guys lossmail is anything to go by. He’s absolutely squeezing the maximum out of that hull. The ROF bonus + DPS x2 output with arty outreps just about anything I could potentially throw at them, except fitting long range just for them of course, but that defeats the multirole brawly profile most of my cruisers have. (I hate kity stuff) It’s fine tbh, in the end, just frustrating as hell. ---
**Author:** ![Verlyn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/verlyn/32/435163_2.png) [@Verlyn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Verlyn)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2022, 2:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/74 "2022-11-14T14:57:45Z")
> [@YaBoyee](#): > > Maybe Ccp did balance the game, against solo. Fixed. ---
**Author:** ![Oskar\_Milde](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/oskar_milde/32/396309_2.png) [@Oskar\_Milde](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Oskar_Milde)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2022, 4:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/75 "2022-11-14T16:17:53Z")
No no, you’re mis-undersranding me. What I’m saying is, can you not DPS-tank these small, squishy little bastards? Fair enough the rupture will struggle with its measly output, but something a bit pokier should be able to do them dirty I’d have said? Sythe Fleet was always a favourite oddball choice, but I feel like shield tank is gonna suffer against their tracking bonii. Some dude took one down solo in a maller though, so there must be hope for you yet! ---
**Author:** ![Verlyn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/verlyn/32/435163_2.png) [@Verlyn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Verlyn)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2022, 4:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/76 "2022-11-14T16:34:41Z")
hmmm, 1V1 would def be possible. 2V1 not possible with short brawly range weapons. And Scythe Fleet, with crystal set maybe, otherwise, their ROF will just dig into armor and hull too much inbetween shield reps, and they do close to 2k alpha volley, each … Doable though, if you manage to grab and delete one upon entry. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2022, 5:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/77 "2022-11-14T17:29:59Z")
> [@Verlyn](#): > > Yes Yes, keep ship moving, maintain speed, ab On, overheat if necessary, manage transversal to mitigate hit quality, etc … > > Basic ■■■■, of which I all did. Sure you did. That’s why you died in seconds 😃 Again, sklll issue mate. You took a fight you thought would be easy against new ships and got ROFLcoptered. New Ships = Meta changing. This isn’t hard to understand. Navy thrashers aren’t T1 thrashers. Savvy? > [@Verlyn](#): > > Well, I consider that style of gameplay in itself to receive a significant nerf with the advent of navy destroyers Didn’t get nerfed. You simply cant adapt. I.E, skill issue 😃 > [@Verlyn](#): > > More on the fact I built over hundred active rep cruisers for this update and I’ll just be letting them rust in the hangar for quite a while. ■■■■ it really lmao … Ah so you made another mistake. Well, again, skill issue 😃 > [@Verlyn](#): > > Approx Total isk gone to waste in those cruisers: 50 bil > Approx Total RL time gone to waste in building, and moving them: 1 month. > > Will I ever get that back ? Probably not. Um, you totally mis-read the upcoming meta and invested a crazy amount of resources. Again, skill issue 😃 > [@Verlyn](#): > > The ROF bonus + DPS x2 output with arty outreps just about anything I could potentially throw at them, except fitting long range just for them of course, but that defeats the multirole brawly profile most of my cruisers have. (I hate kity stuff) I hate the kite meta too. But hate doesn’t win fights huh? Also, again you are using a T1 cruiser to fight out numbered against navy variants. You took a bad fight and got blapped. Then cried to daddy CCP. > [@Verlyn](#): > > Fixed. I fly solo all the time too. Guess what? It means you gotta pick your fights with care cause you got no back up. You got no sympathy mate. You went in thinking it’d be an easy fight for some crazy reason, were banking that the thrashers were brawl fit, was wrong and got blapped. > [@Verlyn](#): > > 2V1 not possible with short brawly range weapons. And why should you be able to win a 2v1 vs navy ships with a T1? They had your number and they took it. Accept it, learn it from it and adapt. Or yennoe, cry to daddy CCP instead. ---
**Author:** ![Verlyn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/verlyn/32/435163_2.png) [@Verlyn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Verlyn)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2022, 11:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/78 "2022-11-14T23:43:34Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Sure you did. > > That’s why you died in seconds 😃 > > Again, sklll issue mate. Welcome to try it anytime, you’ll be surprised … Or not, done wasting my time with your ■■■■. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2022, 12:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/79 "2022-11-15T00:14:11Z")
> [@Verlyn](#): > > Welcome to try it anytime, you’ll be surprised … > > Or not, done wasting my time with your ■■■■. Well I’d def use a kite fit 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Nujenif\_Talvanen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nujenif_talvanen/32/433113_2.png) [@Nujenif\_Talvanen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nujenif_Talvanen)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2022, 7:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/80 "2022-11-15T07:42:26Z")
Does a standard FTrash put out as much dps as a polarized Omen? Because I repped through like 15 seconds of purifying fire from that monster before I was able to run away. He accidentally deactivated scram instead of heating it was what he said. ---
**Author:** ![Nujenif\_Talvanen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nujenif_talvanen/32/433113_2.png) [@Nujenif\_Talvanen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nujenif_Talvanen)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2022, 7:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/81 "2022-11-15T07:44:40Z")
Well, yes. FTrash is all over the place, pretty fascinating stuff. I wish they would actually update the ship value to zkill though, because they are kinda killboard padding right now. ---
**Author:** ![Nujenif\_Talvanen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nujenif_talvanen/32/433113_2.png) [@Nujenif\_Talvanen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nujenif_Talvanen)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2022, 7:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/82 "2022-11-15T07:47:17Z")
V, I recommend just forgetting about this thread, because I think you’ve made your point and nothing is going to improve here… [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673.md?page=5)