# Cruisers now almost useless, thanks to Navy Destroyers **URL:** \ **Category:** PvP Ships & Modules\ **Created:** [November 9, 2022, 9:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673 "2022-11-09T09:01:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 2:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/143 "2022-11-17T02:57:25Z")
What toxic the truth? They are calling for an unwarranted nerf simply because they took a bad fight and lost. I’ve died eleventy billion times in EVE. Every time it was my fault 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Posh\_Wynoa\_Spice](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/posh_wynoa_spice/32/455534_2.png) [@Posh\_Wynoa\_Spice](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Posh_Wynoa_Spice)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 3:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/144 "2022-11-17T03:51:58Z")
The Navy destroyers still get absolutely wrecked by any similarly fit T3D. More dps, better tank, longer range, faster, more agile, and better looking. So, even with the new shiny toy, all is right with the world. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 3:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/145 "2022-11-17T03:58:41Z")
Thankee for speaking the truth 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Nujenif\_Talvanen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nujenif_talvanen/32/433113_2.png) [@Nujenif\_Talvanen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nujenif_Talvanen)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 4:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/146 "2022-11-17T04:19:48Z")
However, navy destroyers are much cheaper… and can access more hard-to-reach places in lowsec. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 4:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/147 "2022-11-17T04:49:27Z")
LOL and? They can still get popped at the gate 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Nujenif\_Talvanen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nujenif_talvanen/32/433113_2.png) [@Nujenif\_Talvanen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nujenif_Talvanen)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 6:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/148 "2022-11-17T06:53:28Z")
Sorry, I meant in complexes. NVY Smalls ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 8:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/149 "2022-11-17T08:01:51Z")
A condor can reach even more places. Imagine a Condor taking out a Coercer Navy Issue. That would make it even more OP than Navy Destroyers. I don’t have to imagine, nerf the condor! ---
**Author:** ![Verlyn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/verlyn/32/435163_2.png) [@Verlyn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Verlyn)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 8:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/150 "2022-11-17T08:19:31Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Uh but anyone with PvP sense knows this is a trap. If I use your same exact fit, aganist the same exact fit of the enemy fleet, _unless_ they have terrible pilot error which is almost impossible in this duel type situation, you will always lose 100% of the time because it’s brawl vs kite. > > Your challenge is literally DOA LOL. The fact you don’t understand this shows even more so how you’re a bad pilot 😃 The challenge was surviving more than 10 seconds by optimizing transversal, as you seemed to believe I didn’t do. If you recall the context, I had friends near, and the idea was being able to rep through at least enough for them to help out. Not even able to do that in a fully blinged out HG rep special even. But I guess we’re passed you comprehending that context. > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > So why cry? Because the active rep gameplay I enjoy will accumulate dust from now on. Done repeating myself. > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Fit up, fly out and find out. I mean if you enjoy PvP does it matter if you pop or not? > > All I hear is excuses and fear 😃 10 seconds in a fully blinged out T1, Imagine how long a normal T1 would last. > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Cept it isn’t the “death of a playstyle”. You literally tried to fight kiters in a brawl fit, they kited, you died. > > It’s pretty simple sis 😃 Except it is, against more than one of those things, active rep playstyle is DOA, whichever way you want to turn this around. > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Why wouldn’t they put abyss mods? They want to win? You just said yourself you had a blinged ship. Why can’t they bling theirs too? ROFL. > > So you can’t pop one in a nado either? > > Huh. Sure they can, and makes imbalances against other playstyle stand out even more, for all to see. Not a Nado, not enough alpha with a stock T2 one, a proper Mach will work charms tho. > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > You can’t figure out how to kill a navy thrasher in a myrm? > > Skill issue fr fr 😃 Not one, many, note how I wrote “full of” ? Reading comprehension issue fr fr 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 8:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/151 "2022-11-17T08:22:27Z")
> [@Verlyn](#): > > The challenge was surviving more than 10 seconds by optimizing transversal, as you seemed to believe I didn’t do. Oh, so we’re moving goal posts. Got it 😃 > [@Verlyn](#): > > If you recall the context, I had friends near, and the idea was being able to rep through at least enough for them to help out. > > Not even able to do that in a fully blinged out HG rep special even. > > But I guess we’re passed you comprehending that context. This actually tells me you know I’m right, and you’re being intellectually dishonest. Awesome 😃 > [@Verlyn](#): > > Because the active rep gameplay I enjoy will accumulate dust from now on. > > Done repeating myself. It won’t, you just shouldn’t try it on kite fits 😃 > [@Verlyn](#): > > 10 seconds in a fully blinged out T1, > > Imagine how long a normal T1 would last. Why should a “normal” T1 last longer, outnumbered, aganist navy variant ships? > [@Verlyn](#): > > Except it is, against more than one of those things, active rep playstyle is DOA, whichever way you want to turn this around. You could say that of any fit in an outnumbered fight 😃 Which you keep omitting 😃 > [@Verlyn](#): > > Not one, many, note how I wrote “full of” ? > > Reading comprehension issue fr fr 😃 No? Because despite you saying you have friends, apparently you can’t fleet up with them in your myrm to kill these guys. So yes, skill issue 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Verlyn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/verlyn/32/435163_2.png) [@Verlyn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Verlyn)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 8:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/152 "2022-11-17T08:42:49Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Oh, so we’re moving goal posts. Got it 😃 Your belief that I didn’t use transversal to my advantage in that fight was what sparked it, so if you could prove to have done better, it would’ve helped your cause a little bit. > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > This actually tells me you know I’m right, and you’re being intellectually dishonest. > > Awesome You are right to an extent, but disregarding the context, only makes you half-right. > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > It won’t, you just shouldn’t try it on kite fits 😃 Did you not see how fast i melted that 1600mm plated Oracle in an AC FleetThrasher ? Do you really think even a T1 blinged active cruiser would last nearly as long against 2 of those things in brawl fit ? … > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Why should a “normal” T1 last longer, outnumbered, aganist navy variant ships? At least “enough” not to make that choice of strategy completely obsolete. Comparing the nuances of dosage is hard, I know. > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > You could say that of any fit in an outnumbered fight 😃 Which you keep omitting 😃 “outnumbered” has far gone to become a subjective entity in this discussion. So there’s really no point going further with it. > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > No? Because despite you saying you have friends, apparently you can’t fleet up with them in your myrm to kill these guys. > > So yes, skill issue 😃 Solo flying an active rep myrm into a furball of frigs and destroyers was something I really enjoyed doing, providing I could establish fun or isk positive exchanges by popping a few before I either blew up, or cleared the field. With more than 2 Navy Destroyers on field, my chances of any meaningful exchanges in that regard, are dumbed down considerably, and since they’re almost in every plex now, well … ---
**Author:** ![Verlyn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/verlyn/32/435163_2.png) [@Verlyn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Verlyn)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 8:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/153 "2022-11-17T08:46:10Z")
> [@Posh\_Wynoa\_Spice](#): > > The Navy destroyers still get absolutely wrecked by any similarly fit T3D. More dps, better tank, longer range, faster, more agile, and better looking. > > So, even with the new shiny toy, all is right with the world. Sure, and it’s one shiny toy more to add to the obsolescence of an active rep playstyle. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 8:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/154 "2022-11-17T08:56:17Z")
> [@Verlyn](#): > > Your belief that I didn’t use transversal to my advantage in that fight was what sparked it, so if you could prove to have done better, it would’ve helped your cause a little bit. Actually my belief is you took a fight you shouldn’t have, got blapped and cried to CCP. All facts 😃 > [@Verlyn](#): > > You are right to an extent, but disregarding the context, only makes you half-right. Nope, and you know it 😃 You got cocky with your implants and your bling and overestimated. And EVE killed you for it. Happens every day. Learn, don’t cry. > [@Verlyn](#): > > Did you not see how fast i melted that 1600mm plated Oracle in an AC FleetThrasher ? > > Do you really think even a T1 blinged active cruiser would last nearly as long against 2 of those things in brawl fit ? … Again, you used a brawl fit vs a kite fit and the usual happened. > [@Verlyn](#): > > At least “enough” not to make that choice of strategy completely obsolete. > > Comparing the nuances of dosage is hard, I know. Who says? You realize once they introduced things like tiers, eventually T1 would fall by the wayside right? You can use T1, I still use T1 all the time. However, it comes with limitations, and that’s just truth. > [@Verlyn](#): > > “outnumbered” has far gone to become a subjective entity in this discussion. > > So there’s really no point going further with it. Mm no, its actually an important fact. You fought 2v1 and lost. It isn’t shocking bruh. You merely overestimated yourself 😃 > [@Verlyn](#): > > Solo flying an active rep myrm into a furball of frigs and destroyers was something I really enjoyed doing, providing I could establish fun or isk positive exchanges by popping a few before I either blew up, or cleared the field. > > With more than 2 Navy Destroyers on field, my chances of any meaningful exchanges in that regard, are dumbed down considerably, and since they’re almost in every plex now, well … Have you tried? Let’s actually translate what this is saying. You’re afraid. So you won’t take the fight. Before, you were confident with your bling and your fittings. You knew you could win the fight probably darn near 100%. Now? Now there is doubt. And instead of putting in the time and death to learn it again, you simply fall to your knees and pray to daddy CCP to save you. > [@Verlyn](#): > > Sure, and it’s one shiny toy more to add to the obsolescence of an active rep playstyle. Mm nope, you just found a rock to your scissors. And instead of adapting, you sob to CCP to nerf. Your actions speak for yourself homeskillet 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Verlyn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/verlyn/32/435163_2.png) [@Verlyn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Verlyn)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 9:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/155 "2022-11-17T09:10:33Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Who says? You realize once they introduced things like tiers, eventually T1 would fall by the wayside right? You can use T1, I still use T1 all the time. > > However, it comes with limitations, and that’s just truth. Finally reach the core of my complaint, More Tiercide = More room given to various gametyle obsolescence. > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Have you tried? > > Let’s actually translate what this is saying. > > You’re afraid. So you won’t take the fight. Before, you were confident with your bling and your fittings. You knew you could win the fight probably darn near 100%. > > Now? Now there is doubt. And instead of putting in the time and death to learn it again, you simply fall to your knees and pray to daddy CCP to save you. No need to try, I already know what it would look like from using navy destroyers myself now, so skill issue fr fr, I would not take such profiles in such fits. > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Mm nope, you just found a rock to your scissors. > > And instead of adapting, you sob to CCP to nerf. > > Your actions speak for yourself homeskillet 😃 What CCP does: Change a piece of paper into cardboard and still call it paper and tell all the scissors to HTFU and adapt. Or Change a pair of Scissors into plasma beams and still call it Scissors and tell all the Papers to HTFU and adapt. /thread ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 9:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/156 "2022-11-17T09:12:33Z")
> [@Verlyn](#): > > Finally reach the core of my complaint, > > More Tiercide = More room given to various gametyle obsolescence. The solution isn’t to nerf the navy thrasher. If you want to use T1, no one is stopping you. But you will hit hard limitations. It’s why you need to pick fights carefully. Your bling carried you before. The meta has changed now. > [@Verlyn](#): > > No need to try, I already know what it would look like from using navy destroyers myself now, so skill issue fr fr, I would not take such profiles in such fits. Ah yea. So afraid. Got it 😃 > [@Verlyn](#): > > What CCP does: > > Change a piece of paper into cardboard and still call it paper and tell all the scissors to HTFU and adapt. > > Or > > Change a pair of Scissors into plasma beams and still call it Scissors and tell all the Papers to HTFU and adapt. That’s all MMOs. But let’s not pretend you did either of those things. You cried in two separate threads 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Total\_Bedlam](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/total_bedlam/32/341964_2.png) [@Total\_Bedlam](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Total_Bedlam)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 9:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/157 "2022-11-17T09:13:32Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > **homeskillet** Is that like a breakfast meal? ![american-breakfast-skillet-potatoes](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/d/b/6/db6a418b375ce95aa9fc743e6cc1b4773bb60e36.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Verlyn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/verlyn/32/435163_2.png) [@Verlyn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Verlyn)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 9:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/158 "2022-11-17T09:15:24Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Ah yea. So afraid. Got it 😃 No, picking my fights. Because, literally quoting yourself: > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > It’s why you need to pick fights carefully. Your bling carried you before. The meta has changed now. > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > If you want to use T1, no one is stopping you. But you will hit hard limitations. It was already hit by harder limitations, with T3Ds and the DPS update a few years ago. > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > That’s all MMOs. > > But let’s not pretend you did either of those things. > > You cried in two separate threads Indeed, but Eve is especially KING at it. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 10:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/159 "2022-11-17T10:00:01Z")
It is. So adapt. Don’t cry 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 10:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/160 "2022-11-17T10:14:27Z")
> [@Verlyn](#): > > Just look at the recent stats on killboards. > [@Verlyn](#): > > A couple Arty Navy Thrashers easily welping a 1600mm plated Omen in as little as 10-15 I must have missed it, where does zkillboard show time taken? ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_the_flame/32/490165_2.png) [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_the_Flame)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 10:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/161 "2022-11-17T10:21:46Z")
I assume a guesstimate based on dealt damage and damage output potential of said Navy Thrashers? 🤔 ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 10:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673/162 "2022-11-17T10:24:07Z")
> [@Nujenif\_Talvanen](#): > > That is why I run Stabbers Get your credit card out, fly a loki. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673.md?page=7) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/cruisers-now-almost-useless-thanks-to-navy-destroyers/383673.md?page=9)