# CSM 13 - High Sec Issues/Suggestions/Ideas **URL:** \ **Category:** Assembly Hall\ **Tags:** high-sec, csm\ **Created:** [June 21, 2018, 5:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-13-high-sec-issues-suggestions-ideas/84409 "2018-06-21T17:40:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Choking\_Coyote](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/choking_coyote/32/83337_2.png) [@Choking\_Coyote](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Choking_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 12:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-13-high-sec-issues-suggestions-ideas/84409/304 "2018-08-06T12:32:50Z")
> [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > The sad situation probably is, that nobody at CCP still understands how these things are all interconnected, so fresh people rather opt for the addition with minimal interference with existing stuff. I would likely do the same to keep my job. Isn’t it the job of an economist to understand how all these parts fit together? And doesn’t CCP employ a few? ---
**Author:** ![Choking\_Coyote](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/choking_coyote/32/83337_2.png) [@Choking\_Coyote](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Choking_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 3:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-13-high-sec-issues-suggestions-ideas/84409/305 "2018-08-06T15:31:52Z")
> [@Yiole\_Gionglao](#): > > What else would l do? If they asked me personally, I would kill the non-consensual corporation wardec system altogether and would replace it for a structure wardec system. There might be a problem with that suggestion. I know there’s talk about removing the current POS system from the game, but apparently, according to CCP, there are too many high sec industrialists who run their own high sec POS who would leave the game if there is no viable alternative to the current system. The structure wardec system you’re proposing would make those same POS’s more susceptible to being wardecced than they currently are. Granted, in theory they would not be, but I think in practice they might. If that’s the case, CCP is in the same danger of losing those players as they would be if they just removed the current POS’s without an alternative. So I don’t think they will be bold enough to implement a structure based wardec system. ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 3:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-13-high-sec-issues-suggestions-ideas/84409/306 "2018-08-06T15:49:51Z")
Not that I’m aware of. Those I knew left CCP. But to be frank, I’m not sure what skill you need. Economists are good at analyzing systems, but not necessarily good game designers. ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Pedro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_pedro/32/257285_2.png) [@Black\_Pedro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Pedro)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 7:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-13-high-sec-issues-suggestions-ideas/84409/307 "2018-08-06T19:18:22Z")
> [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > Economists are good at analyzing systems, but not necessarily good game designers. And vice versa. CCP could do worse than at least consulting with a bona fide economist periodically to get some input on how to keep their virtual economy healthy given how important it is for keeping subscribers. At the very least, it is great advertising to be able to brag about how your game has an economist on retainer. ---
**Author:** ![Penance\_Toralen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/penance_toralen/32/244089_2.png) [@Penance\_Toralen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Penance_Toralen)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2018, 3:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-13-high-sec-issues-suggestions-ideas/84409/308 "2018-08-07T03:41:56Z")
> [@Veryez](#): > > who’s left in highsec to help new players adjust to the game. What makes you think that this happens now? Yes there is something like Eve Uni. But on the whole of things - I just do not see it. You understand that Resource Wars was introduced - not to be consumed content; just look someone like JonnyPew’s video. It was actually intended to be a teaching tool for new players. Because group play is a superior, and a key for long term retention. But it didn’t happen. No one steps up to lead new players. Just a bunch of existing players attempting to wring from it isk per hour solo - then deciding no. And the content has largely been abandoned. Perhaps if there was a call from CCP before the release for players willing to mentor - it might not have imploded as badly as it did. The CSM of the day spend it’s time hand-wringing over “safety” - also completely missing the intent of the content. It was a supposed to be a classroom not a war-zone. But a classroom that did not get a teacher. ---
**Author:** ![Veryez](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/veryez/32/508712_2.png) [@Veryez](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Veryez)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2018, 9:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-13-high-sec-issues-suggestions-ideas/84409/309 "2018-08-07T09:27:46Z")
My point exactly. Even EveUni is a shadow of their former self. I remember when I would see 50 to 80 EveUni people each day in Aldrat. I now see 1/10 that number. Yiolo hit the nail on the head. EvE is too complex, many people cannot learn it by themselves and CCP cannot be an effective teacher since it can’t answer any questions directly. CCP made a concerted effort to get people to move into nullsec by making nullsec significantly better than all the other regions of eve, and it worked. But many of the people who left highsec, were the teachers, who helped prepare new players to understand and play eve correctly. Who taught them about planning for long term goals - which you must do in EvE. Who gave new players a taste of everything available in EvE, so that they could decide what they like in the game. Who taught them the pitfalls, and helped them succeed. Who showed them all the advantages of working together, of how much more you could accomplish/do as a group. These people are gone, or at least so reduced in number that many new players are left to fend for themselves - and they can’t learn how to play EvE - and they are leaving in droves. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2018, 7:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-13-high-sec-issues-suggestions-ideas/84409/310 "2018-08-07T19:14:02Z")
For those who yelled at me when I suggested that Abyssal Deadspace could be used as a potential new ISK generator and PVE content for high sec because the suspect timer deterred people from doing Tier 4/5s, I’m glad to say that CCP saw the issue and is testing out a change. I hope those who didn’t want to do Tier 4s/5s in highsec take advantage of these. > **[Abyssal Deadspace Testing – Temporary Disabling Of Tier 4 & 5 Suspect Flags |...](https://www.eveonline.com/article/pd3nt4/abyssal-deadspace-testing-temporary-disabling-of-tier-4-and-5-suspect-flags)** > > We'll be making some temporary changes to the suspect flagging on high tier abyssal deadspace runs with the August release. Check out this news item for more information. ---
**Author:** ![Omnathious\_Deninard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/omnathious_deninard/32/266675_2.png) [@Omnathious\_Deninard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Omnathious_Deninard)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2018, 7:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-13-high-sec-issues-suggestions-ideas/84409/311 "2018-08-07T19:30:08Z")
I will find it truly amusing if the rate of T4 and T5s don’t change significantly. ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2018, 7:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-13-high-sec-issues-suggestions-ideas/84409/312 "2018-08-07T19:44:09Z")
This change takes me totally by surprise. > [@The Trigs are coming!](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-trigs-are-coming/69296/92): > > Exit point ganking? I’m just not really sure if it is a great idea to set it up this way. I mean if you run a site for 30min only to get your stuff stolen by some guy camping outside will generate some serious rage from the usual suspects. And it does not look like there will be an easy way to fix this. So when the rage forces them to remove it we will be left with 100% secure PvE dungeons… Not a good thing. Oh wait no it doesn’t… ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2018, 9:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-13-high-sec-issues-suggestions-ideas/84409/313 "2018-08-07T21:27:30Z")
They will not put the flag back, once it’s disabled for a couple of months it’s gone forever. What a shame. This is a Black Tuesday for EvE. **@all gankers: please help killing as much T4/T5 runners as possible, I’m out of business with this change.** ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2018, 9:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-13-high-sec-issues-suggestions-ideas/84409/314 "2018-08-07T21:40:59Z")
It will drastically raise, because everybody not in Delve will go to highsec and run perfectly safe sites. The only good thing, it will trash the loot. But I’m sure CCP will compensate with new red loot aka ISK faucet to save a failed concept. ---
**Author:** ![Yiole\_Gionglao](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yiole_gionglao/32/374866_2.png) [@Yiole\_Gionglao](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yiole_Gionglao)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2018, 10:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-13-high-sec-issues-suggestions-ideas/84409/315 "2018-08-07T22:08:16Z")
My bet is that they will be run a bit more often in highsec, but nullsec still will be the main source of T4-T5 sites since it is a safer place to do them. I don’t expect any dramatic increase in highsec running of T4-T5 sites. ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2018, 10:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-13-high-sec-issues-suggestions-ideas/84409/316 "2018-08-07T22:23:00Z")
The point is, the people successfully running T4 sites in highsec are nullsec, lowsec, and PvP players. ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Pedro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_pedro/32/257285_2.png) [@Black\_Pedro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Pedro)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2018, 10:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-13-high-sec-issues-suggestions-ideas/84409/317 "2018-08-07T22:58:29Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > I’m glad to say that CCP saw the issue and is testing out a change. What issue? High-end content is suppose to be more risky, so the fact that T4/T5 is not run as much in highsec is working as intended. Either this validates that more risky content is not as popular because of the risk (most likely) or that the suspect flag doesn’t deter people from running the top tier sites in highsec in which case removing the flag does nothing but remove some possibility of content for highsec pirates. What is the point? Well, regardless, I hope you or CCP report back on this “experiment” and let us know what it reveals. I fully expect it to show the obvious - suspect flags deter people from running content in highsec - but I’ll still eagerly await the devblog. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2018, 12:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-13-high-sec-issues-suggestions-ideas/84409/318 "2018-08-08T00:02:17Z")
> [@Yiole\_Gionglao](#): > > My bet is that they will be run a bit more often in highsec, but nullsec still will be the main source of T4-T5 sites since it is a safer place to do them. I don’t expect any dramatic increase in highsec running of T4-T5 sites. I still chuckle every time I see you say null is safer than highsec. ---
**Author:** ![Omnathious\_Deninard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/omnathious_deninard/32/266675_2.png) [@Omnathious\_Deninard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Omnathious_Deninard)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2018, 12:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-13-high-sec-issues-suggestions-ideas/84409/319 "2018-08-08T00:12:03Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > > [@Yiole\_Gionglao](#): > > > > My bet is that they will be run a bit more often in highsec, but nullsec still will be the main source of T4-T5 sites since it is a safer place to do them. I don’t expect any dramatic increase in highsec running of T4-T5 sites. > > I still chuckle every time I see you say highsec is safer than null. I tried to think of a way to agree with her point of view, I just couldn’t. The only reason null sec is “safer” is because of the level of organization that is needed to hold space in null sec. ---
**Author:** ![Yiole\_Gionglao](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yiole_gionglao/32/374866_2.png) [@Yiole\_Gionglao](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yiole_Gionglao)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2018, 6:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-13-high-sec-issues-suggestions-ideas/84409/320 "2018-08-08T06:51:47Z")
> [@Omnathious\_Deninard](#): > > > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > > > > [@Yiole\_Gionglao](#): > > > > > > My bet is that they will be run a bit more often in highsec, but nullsec still will be the main source of T4-T5 sites since it is a safer place to do them. I don’t expect any dramatic increase in highsec running of T4-T5 sites. > > > > I still chuckle every time I see you say highsec is safer than null. > > I tried to think of a way to agree with her point of view, I just couldn’t. The only reason null sec is “safer” is because of the level of organization that is needed to hold space in null sec. Well, you said it: the organization required makes it safer. And since the organization exists, then it’s actually safer. Brisc may ask CCP for stats on the chances to be ganked on exit, tier by tier, both in highsec and nullsec. And then mix in lowsec and wormholes for a global picture. The shape of the sandox is what players do, not what CCP designs. And players make nullsec safer than highsec. ---
**Author:** ![Veryez](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/veryez/32/508712_2.png) [@Veryez](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Veryez)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2018, 8:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-13-high-sec-issues-suggestions-ideas/84409/321 "2018-08-08T08:57:28Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > I still chuckle every time I see you say **highsec is safer than null**. Ok, I’m confused. Yiole was saying null is safer. So was this a slip or are you somehow agreeing with her??? My biggest problem with Abyssal Dungeons is that they are solo content and that won’t help get people back into highsec. But if this change gets people to run them more, fine. CCP didn’t create this content to not be used. ---
**Author:** ![Omnathious\_Deninard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/omnathious_deninard/32/266675_2.png) [@Omnathious\_Deninard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Omnathious_Deninard)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2018, 12:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-13-high-sec-issues-suggestions-ideas/84409/322 "2018-08-08T12:54:35Z")
> [@Yiole\_Gionglao](#): > > Well, you said it: the organization required makes it safer. And since the organization exists, then it’s actually safer. But that doesn’t actually make it safer, they still have a higher chance of being attacked and it’s much easier to successfully attack a player, requires less planning and all that. > [@Yiole\_Gionglao](#): > > Brisc may ask CCP for stats on the chances to be ganked on exit, tier by tier, both in highsec and nullsec. I laugh every time I hear about players being “ganked” in null sec. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2018, 12:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-13-high-sec-issues-suggestions-ideas/84409/323 "2018-08-09T00:23:56Z")
> [@Veryez](#): > > Ok, I’m confused. Yiole was saying null is safer. So was this a slip or are you somehow agreeing with her??? My biggest problem with Abyssal Dungeons is that they are solo content and that won’t help get people back into highsec. But if this change gets people to run them more, fine. CCP didn’t create this content to not be used. Yeah, that was me being a spodbrain. I mean I chuckle when Yiole says null is safer than highsec. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-13-high-sec-issues-suggestions-ideas/84409.md?page=15) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/csm-13-high-sec-issues-suggestions-ideas/84409.md?page=17)